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Zipp 3001 frame
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donm
Oct 5, 08 13:13
Post #1 of 13 (590 views)
Zipp 3001 frame
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Theoretically speaking, if you had the opportunity to buy a Zipp 3001 frame at a reasonable price, would you do it?
Tell me about this frame - how fast is it? Is there any data out there?
Thanks,
Don
stal
Oct 5, 08 13:26
Post #2 of 13 (569 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [donm]
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No data out there. Only a claim that a zipp 3001 tested faster than a lotus, and that the lotus tested faster than the P3C (but not as fast as the P4). So it's pretty aero.
Disadvantages:
Weight: A few pounds heavier than new frames
Parts: Beam, elastomers, connection parts are hard to find if broken
Seatbolts: Break a lot (very soft metal). Expensive to replace even if it's possible.
Rear Brake is incredibly hard to get to work. You have to use crappy old center pull breaks which have the negative effect of being unable to stop a bike.
Cabling: The internal cabling often breaks and you end up having to cut the frame open to fix this (Very expensive AND hurts the structural integrity of the frame)
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donm
Oct 5, 08 14:56
Post #3 of 13 (512 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [stal]
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Hmmm....none of those things sound good for a guy who's not particularly handy with a torque wrench (i.e. me).
RACERX
Oct 5, 08 18:24
Post #4 of 13 (441 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [donm]
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Do you know someone that has one for sale? I am looking for one, let me know.
Thanks
Ryan
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Record10Carbon
Oct 5, 08 18:36
Post #5 of 13 (435 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [stal]
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Cabling: The internal cabling often breaks and you end up having to cut the frame open to fix this (Very expensive AND hurts the structural integrity of the frame)
Huh?
RACERX
Oct 5, 08 19:09
Post #6 of 13 (410 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [Record10Carbon]
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If you dont replace the cables on a regular basis the housing seizes to the frame and then its bad news..
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stal
Oct 5, 08 19:34
Post #7 of 13 (392 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [RACERX]
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It's a bad feeling, you put the cable into the bike and it doesn't come out anywhere. What happened was that the cables corroded taking the internal housings with them. The housing snaps/breaks inside the frame.
You have to have someone who knows a lot about carbon fiber open up the frame and re-plumb the internal housings. I would venture a guess that doing these makes the frame a wee bit less stiff.
Another problem I had was the BB shell spinning in the frame because the BB had corroded into the shell forming a bond stronger than the one connecting the BB shell to the frame. Had to have a really smart carbon fiber dude take it out and re-epoxy it into the frame.
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My training
Smoiniye
Oct 6, 08 14:57
Post #8 of 13 (288 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [stal]
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In Reply To
It's a bad feeling, you put the cable into the bike and it doesn't come out anywhere. What happened was that the cables corroded taking the internal housings with them. The housing snaps/breaks inside the frame.
You have to have someone who knows a lot about carbon fiber open up the frame and re-plumb the internal housings. I would venture a guess that doing these makes the frame a wee bit less stiff.
Another problem I had was the BB shell spinning in the frame because the BB had corroded into the shell forming a bond stronger than the one connecting the BB shell to the frame. Had to have a really smart carbon fiber dude take it out and re-epoxy it into the frame.
Sounds like you've had some rough experience with your bike. I purchased a 10+ year old Zipp 2001 earlier this summer and haven't had any problems with it yet. It's only been a month since I upgraded the crank and BB, and the shop which replaced it didn't have any issues.
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LOCATION
Davis, CA
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NEXT EVENT
Training, training...
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BIKE
Black Zipp 2001 (Small Frame, Large Beam)
mopdahl
Oct 6, 08 15:29
Post #9 of 13 (250 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [stal]
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Dude, you really should know more about what you are posting about:
Disadvantages:
Weight: A few pounds heavier than new frames
Yes
Parts: Beam, elastomers, connection parts are hard to find if broken
Beams, yes, but I've never heard of a beam actually breaking ala Softride. All the other parts are available via a guy in Indiana who handles all the Zipp repairs & warranty work (which just expired this past year or two).
Seatbolts: Break a lot (very soft metal). Expensive to replace even if it's possible.
No, they don't break. Yes, they do strip if you don't know what you are doing. They cost $10.00 or so to replace, and I haven't stripped or broken one in years.
Rear Brake is incredibly hard to get to work. You have to use crappy old center pull breaks which have the negative effect of being unable to stop a bike.
Um, no, not unless you don't know what you are doing. The Zipp brake can be a PITA to setup, but then it works fine. Else you can use an old Shimano AX brake, which works GREAT, or a Hooker. Other, less attractive options are the Campy center-pulls or the old Modolos, which absolutely will not work well. One option which works extremely well, with a slight bolt modification, are the Oval Aero 700 brakes; now that Cervelo is putting their brake down there I'm sure there will be plenty of other options.
Cabling: The internal cabling often breaks and you end up having to cut the frame open to fix this (Very expensive AND hurts the structural integrity of the frame)
You couldn't be more wrong on this. No, you don't need to cut open the frame. Yes, it can be repaired for a few hundred dollars by sending your frame to Indiana.
Zipp 3001 and the later 2001 are great, great frames. They require a bit more patience & fine tuning than other bikes, but their ride quality is second to none. That there is so much interest in them, and that they are so coveted 10 years after Zipp stopped making them, should give you some indication of how good they are.
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"After all, most of this hand-to-hand combat involves us arguing with each other over the things adults do. Now? I'd advise most of you to stay away from me if we're ever at the same event." - Big Kahuna
stal
Oct 6, 08 16:07
Post #10 of 13 (218 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [mopdahl]
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I hate to tell you, but if you read your responses to my post very carefully you agreed with everything I said but just painted it in a more positive light :)
I'm not shitting on the frames believe me, I have a 2001 and it's my baby. I continue to believe that it is the most aero frame ever produced (careful reading of statements from gerard and joshatzipp will imply that it's faster than the P3C and lotus).
HOWEVER, there are a lot of headaches that come along with this specific type of bike. I mentioned those above (and you agreed with me!). I had to purchase 4 different frames (on ebay, so I guess it's my own fault) before I got a frame, beam, elastomer interface, seat interface, BB shell, and internal housings that was 100%. I have seen each and every one of the problems mentioned above...some my fault and some not and I have been building bikes for 5 years now. These are problems specific to this frame and worth mentioning to someone considering a purchase like the OP. I wish someone explained them all to me so I could know what questions to ask when buying this type of frame.
Couldn't agree more with you about the ride quality...it's SMOOTH.
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mopdahl
Oct 6, 08 16:37
Post #11 of 13 (190 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [stal]
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Ah, ebay, there is the problem.
My last zipp off ebay was a beautiful nude carbon---1st one to come up in my size in years---with almost perfect stickers. Of course the rear brake bolt was stripped, the bottom bracket was seized-up, the beam adjustment bolt was also seized-up, and the headset had to be replaced (they all do). Dave Hill was able to fix it all, and I recommend (and do myself) send any frame purchased on ebay for him to do a once over, swap out the headset, and fix whatever is wrong, PROPERLY.
That means no cutting of the frame to re-route the internal housing. That means all the bushings & bolts can be replaced to make the frame "new".
For a $200-500 investment, upfront, your grief quotient will be much, much less, and your frames will be as state of the art as possible, given their (limited) design & weight flaws.
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"After all, most of this hand-to-hand combat involves us arguing with each other over the things adults do. Now? I'd advise most of you to stay away from me if we're ever at the same event." - Big Kahuna
bikescott
Oct 6, 08 20:42
Post #12 of 13 (141 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [mopdahl]
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I will second Dave Hill's work. I bought a frame last year, and he went through the entire thing for me, switched the headset, ran new internal cables, replaced some bolts, and my frame has been great.
I actually picked up my bike from his shop on my way to Indy, he is a really nice guy, and knows his stuff when it comes to these frames.
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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry
zipp
Oct 6, 08 21:34
Post #13 of 13 (117 views)
Re: Zipp 3001 frame [donm]
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OK, time for me to chime in here. I just got back from a short "poker" vacation. I love winning enough money to pay for my vacations and bring more money home then I left with : )
As for Dave....he's a great guy and knows everything about the frames as he built them all.
As for the bolts....yep...they break on me about every 4-6 months. I had to DNF my last race as 1/4 mile into the bike leg, both my bolts snapped clean in half and the seat fell off. I've probably broken 16 of these bolts over the past 4 years. I order them from Dave at $10 each. I order 10 at a time.
As for the cable routing, as long as you replace the cables every 6-8 months, you should never have a problem with the routing. I've had 4 Zipp frames and never had a problem with any of the routing. Maintenance is the way to avoid this problem. ALWAYS use new cables. Never put a used/cut cable back thru the cable routing.
I've seen one of the bottom bracket shells turn in the frame. It would move about 1/16th of turn and then got stuck forever and there was never a problem after that. I have no idea why and don't care.
The rear brake is fine for stopping, though I'm former Police mtn bike instructor and therefore use the front brake far more then the rear. The Zipp rear brake can be a bear to adjust but after a few attempts I've gotten very good at it and can install a rear brake and adjust it in a matter of minutes, there's a few "tricks of the trade".
The only parts I've ever replaced was the seat bolts, headset and the bandaid that covers the beam around the beam adjustment area. All other parts are original.
The frames are extremely fast, extremely comfortable, and as far as I'm concerned this equates to "fast", a tad flexy, though not enough to loose any speed as far as I could tell. Don't climb really well, probably due to weight and flex. For most courses the Zipp 2001 frame can't be beat. That said I just sold one of mine as I ordered a new Look 596. I still have one left and it'll probably stay with me forever.
I've rebuilt my framesets literally dozens of times over the past 9 years I've had these frames. I've owned 4 of them.
Paul
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