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Wow. They *PAID* For This...
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Rappstar
Feb 24, 09 7:59
Post #201 of 344 (1876 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [trail]
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>But I've actually done the important stuff first.
I doubt your sponsors want to hear that kind of talk.
That's only because you don't understand what I wrote. Do you think the following would be the sort of thing my sponsors would want to hear? "You are only 4'10" (since we just had someone that height asking about a bike in another thread), but you should buy a bike with 700C wheels so you can get a Sub9 disc, because that is the fastest wheel available, and it's only available in 700C."
Then again, all of that is really secondary, since I don't begrudge the guy wanting to go to the tunnel. But I just don't see the sense in taking a bike where the steerer tube is waiting to snap into the tunnel, since the bike isn't right for him in the first place.
"BAM!" - Larry Williams
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Timemachine
Feb 24, 09 8:00
Post #202 of 344 (1875 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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Rappstar,
One thing you might want to keep in mind, is that your views on bikefitting and coaching are just that...your views. Your posts seem to come across as if your opinions are indisputably correct and the only way. Despite what you seem to think, bikefitting and coaching are more art than science and extremely subjective. If someone contracts an individual for these services, the only thing that matters is that client is happy with the service. It doesn't matter what, if any, measurable gain is had or how much they paid for it, only that they are satisfied. Just remember, others are entitled to their opinion as well. Although it's not likely to happen on this forum, for obvious reasons of the bias here, someone could single out you for a flogging by stating that your methods are bunk. And they would be right as it's their opinion and they're free to state it.
A little advice.
You should be more concerned with your clients' satisfaction than trying to discredit others and their methods. One thing I learned years ago was it makes a person who is trying to sell a product or service look really unprofessional if they spend any time slagging others. You will get more respect if you restrain yourself ( at least publically) from crucifying others.
On a lighter note. Good luck in your racing this season after some great results last year. And, congratulations to you and Jill. I hope we meet at some point this year.
Greg.
trail
Feb 24, 09 8:08
Post #203 of 344 (1847 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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, and there are those people that understand the points that I am trying to make.
Which point is it?
1) The subject of the blog spent a ton of money on services that have negligible benefit to his overall performance relative to other much more important - and mostly free - factors.
2) The subject was deceived by Joe Friel and company into spending a ton of money by making him think that the wind tunnel fit was an important part of his training and overall performance. Or by making him think that significant changes could be made to his fit despite his physical limitations.
3) The overall fit is poor. The fitter is mediocre or incompetent.
4) The fact that not much could be done with the subject means thats he shouldn't have been publicized as an example of a wind tunnel fit on a blog. The blog entry attempts to exemplify or market the value of a service, but in fact does the opposite.
5) Joe Friel and Training Bible are overhyped and overpriced, and this is an example. (mostly proposed by others than Rappstar, but I'll throw it out there).
None of those opinions are mine, just trying to clarify.
trackie clm
Feb 24, 09 8:12
Post #204 of 344 (1830 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [cincytri]
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>>Your original post doesn't have a bunch of rude comments or foul language, but the point of the post was most certainly to make fun of someone. You say that you were only trying to ridicule the coach, but is that even true? Did you honestly believe that you could make this post and only really put a few zingers on the coach? Should you not be held accountable for using the rider to get to the coach? Why do you even feel the need to ridicule the coach? Because one of his clients wanted to go to the wind tunnel? Obvioulsy the rider is not the model of fitness, but can't the guy benefit from a good coach, good equipment, and even small improvements in positioning? Should he be prevented from doing those things because he is not in great shape? <<
Jordan--On first reading, the above is how I took your original post.
clm
http://ironclm.typepad.com
cincytri
Feb 24, 09 8:13
Post #205 of 344 (1822 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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"But I just don't see the sense in taking a bike where the steerer tube is waiting to snap into the tunnel, since the bike isn't right for him in the first place."
I actually forgot to mention this train of thought in my earlier replies to you posts. If, in fact, there are genuine safety issues with this fork as it is set up in the pictures, then you are right to point this out and address the "how's and why's" of the coach's decisions. My apologies for not initially giving credit where credit is due.
uli
Feb 24, 09 8:15
Post #206 of 344 (1817 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [trackie clm]
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That's just because people make fun of you.
__________________________________________
message from mzungo
STP
Feb 24, 09 8:19
Post #207 of 344 (1805 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [trail]
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6) A professional athlete and fitter advances then defends these points on a board he has control over and signs his posts with his sponsors' links.
Even if points 1-5 are valid, this is still a big no no. "Professional" has several meanings, one of which is "exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace."
For most of us, Slowtwitch is a playground. We do get to play by different rules. But for some, Slowtwitch is a workplace. Given the unique place the orginal poster occupies, his post was, and continues to be, inappropriate.
Paulo Sousa
Feb 24, 09 8:22
Post #208 of 344 (1795 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [uli]
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Maybe in 4 years we can elect a really fat guy that can unite this country!
The movement has started with Paul Blart - Mall Cop. He's like the president on the first season of 24.
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pstriathlon.com
geekedout
Feb 24, 09 8:30
Post #209 of 344 (1764 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [uli]
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Quote:
That's just because people make fun of you.
Love your work.
Macho Grande
Feb 24, 09 8:31
Post #210 of 344 (1759 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Paulo Sousa]
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Paulo:
Well played sir, well played.
Bob
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(This Space for Rent)
cervelorider
Feb 24, 09 8:45
Post #211 of 344 (1709 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [cincytri]
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As an old guy with a beer belly and a loaded Cervelo P3C I have to agree with you. If the BOP and MOP crowd who pays retail for gear and services went away, then the sport of Triatlon would be greatly diminished. After the events I say let the young guys take the podium, I just want to go back to the hotel for a hot shower and some cold beers. Tim
trail
Feb 24, 09 8:56
Post #212 of 344 (1680 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [cervelorider]
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then the sport of Triatlon would be greatly diminished. A
The industry that's grown up around triathlon and the ability of pros to make a living off the industry would be greatly diminished..
Call me a purist, but I think the sport would live on. It would be a lot different, but I'm not sure "diminished."
fbrissette
Feb 24, 09 9:09
Post #213 of 344 (1640 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [cincytri]
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What is so irritating about threads like this, and ST more generally, is the sentiment that only the most fit and successful are worthy of the most expensive and advanced equipment and coaching services.
This is not what the original post was about. It does not matter that the guy was fat, thin, fit or not. Fact is: a known coach took a badly fit guy to the wind tunnel and came out of the tunnel with a badly fit guy. On top of that he posted everything on his blog. This post should be an eye opener related to the quality of tri coaching in North America.
Francois in Montreal
Walter P3 Doyle
Feb 24, 09 9:12
Post #214 of 344 (1629 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [trail]
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What is a Paulo?
paul_tx
Feb 24, 09 9:13
Post #215 of 344 (1623 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [cervelorider]
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"After the events I say let the young guys take the podium, I just want to go back to the hotel for a hot shower and some cold beers."
Since in triathlon we have age group competition it's not a bunch young guys that are keeping you off the podium.
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geekedout
Feb 24, 09 9:21
Post #216 of 344 (1589 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [STP]
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Your post made me realize something. Herbert sure has been keeping a low profile ever since that YVV thread kind of blew up...
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cervelorider
Feb 24, 09 9:25
Post #217 of 344 (1582 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [paul_tx]
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I was referring to the over all winners, I actually do place in my age group in the smaller events (I'm either a big fish in a small pond or a little fish in a big pond). Tim
departed
Feb 24, 09 9:28
Post #218 of 344 (1570 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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That's only because you don't understand what I wrote.
Blame the masses. If you were trying to make a public service announcement, say it so the public understands. If you were engaged in shop talk bitching about rivals in the industry, pick up the phone and call Pablo and laugh about it.
But I just don't see the sense in taking a bike where the steerer tube is waiting to snap into the tunnel, since the bike isn't right for him in the first place.
Dude, we need more info. As Dan says, "And finally, do not EVER say somebody's product is unsafe unless you have rock-solid demonstrable proof. This is as much for your benefit as anyone's (we'd prefer your hot temper doesn't result in a lawsuit a manufacturer lodges against you)." You saying these guys were negligent?
At some point most folks learn that freedom of speech does not mean there are no responsibilities that accompany that freedom. It is best to think real hard before firing bullets at folks.
(Edit for typo)
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roady
Feb 24, 09 9:33
Post #219 of 344 (1543 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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I'll confess, I only made it through about 4 posts, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm repeating anything....
How do you know his original position was that bad? Side-view only doesn't tell much. I'm pretty high myself (no, not that high), and I'm sure from the side my position doesn't 'look' fast, but few go as fast on as little power as I do (no, I'm not really that proud of that fact...). Judging by the bike, I'm guessing the guy is pretty tall, and obviously he's got some weight to lose--but those numbers may actually be pretty good. Who knows? (I don't--but neither do you--we seem to only have half of the information, after all).
Lastly, as far as this 'not on a 'tri-bike' nonsense...thank goodness that while Gerard says that, he still makes a bike where the seat post can be put in an 'un-tri-bike' position....
There's simply no guarantee that moving into the official (and heavily marketed, just like Friel) ST position would be any faster. For an alternative view,
here's a blog post
from Andy C's good friend clowning* on the position of someone else--you!
for all the sensitive types--he's not clowning, just showing an alternate perspective, that's all.
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Kensho
Feb 24, 09 9:37
Post #220 of 344 (1525 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [HH]
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We don't need more info.
Take a real close look at the number of spacers on the steerer in the photo. Dangerous.
R10C
Feb 24, 09 9:40
Post #221 of 344 (1515 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Rappstar]
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Jordan. Friend. I have the utmost repect for you, Dan, Slowtwitch, FIST and on and on....
The guy likes his bike. Has money, spent some money to do what I bet 99% of ST'ers would kill to do (get wind tunnel tested). Why not let it go at that? If I had the money I would get tested on a Big Wheel in the wind tunnel just cause I could. If the person in these photos wanted a new bike, sure seems he had the cash to do that too. But - he didnt. He and his buddy got in his jet and went to a wind tunnel to screw around for a morning. How is that any less odd than a MOP/BOP person on ST asking about what ceramic bearings are best?
So his bike is the wrong bike...what if he likes the color?
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f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
roady
Feb 24, 09 9:43
Post #222 of 344 (1496 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Kensho]
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We don't need more info.
Take a real close look at the number of spacers on the steerer in the photo. Dangerous.
If it's the original fork (it appears to be), it's a steel steerer tube. There's typically no limit on spacers and steel steerers......
Paulo Sousa
Feb 24, 09 9:48
Post #223 of 344 (1474 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [HH]
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That's only because you don't understand what I wrote.
Blame the masses. If you were trying to make a public service announcement, say it so the public understands. If you were engaged in shop talk bitching about rivals in the industry, pick up the phone and call Pablo and laugh about it.
He couldn't... Jordan and I share the same aversion to talking on the phone. He HAD to post.
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pstriathlon.com
trackie clm
Feb 24, 09 9:53
Post #224 of 344 (1442 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [uli]
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That's just because people make fun of you.
And if they need that validation to prove their penis size, good for them.
clm
http://ironclm.typepad.com
departed
Feb 24, 09 9:53
Post #225 of 344 (1442 views)
Re: Wow. They *PAID* For This... [Kensho]
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We don't need more info.
Take a real close look at the number of spacers on the steerer in the photo. Dangerous.
You might not, but I was just citing the rule of the forum. But for my education (and probably just for starters) what brand fork is that, what material is the steerer tube, what does the manual say? And if this whole tread was about safety, why does that come out 8 or so pages into this?
I'd hope that if Dan saw this type of thing and believed it was a safety issue, he'd pick up the phone and call the folks that did the fitting. No? What is going on here?
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