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Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category?
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timboricki
Jun 23, 10 14:03
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Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category?
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This was posed in another thread, but I did not want to hijack that one.
I have been wondering this question - Why do we have categories for heavier people? (Not all heavy people are fat, some are taller/thicker/more muscle/etc).
What is the history of this category? Did some relatively fast heavier people complain that they couldn't compete with the smaller ones?
Or was it a carryover from the marathon?
djciii
Jun 23, 10 14:06
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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I am 6'7'', 220 pounds with about 8% body fat.....I have never seen anyone close to that size win my age group. Next time you are heading out for your A race strap on another 80 pounds or so and you will see..I am pretty sure that is the point of the division, just to make it more competitive for those who physiologically can't compete (namely on the run) with the 135 pound guys and 105 pound girls.
----------------------------------------------------
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
http://biggintriathlete.blogspot.com/
JohnnyEndurance
Jun 23, 10 14:10
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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Damn Shrek! You must be a sight to see haha
Jonathan
USA Triathlon Coach/Adventure Extraordinaire
jackmott
Jun 23, 10 14:15
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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so 6'6" people can compete against somebody
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timboricki
Jun 23, 10 14:16
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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I get that. You are obviously a physical beast. Damn I wish I was that tall.
That height / weight / body fat puts you in a category that I have not seen much of at the races that I have done. A lot of the bigger guys/gals that I have seen could get under the cutoff with the loss of some blubber.
Myself at 5'10" 175, I can't compete with the fast, skinny guys either. Could I get that slim? Maybe, but I like a little muscle.
I also can't compete with the guys that ran track / cross country / swam in HS or college. I've only been on a bike for 3 years and I can't hang with the guys that have been cycling forever.
But, I don't ask for a different category so I can compete with people that have the same top end speed as me. I feel like the AG categories should be enough.
(DJCIII - this is not meant directly at you, just my general feelings. I wouldn't want to piss someone off that could pick me up and rock me like a baby - Haha)
jackmott
Jun 23, 10 14:23
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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its true that mostly overweight people compete in those categories but that wasn't what they were originally intended for.
In Reply To:
I get that. You are obviously a physical beast. Damn I wish I was that tall.
That height / weight / body fat puts you in a category that I have not seen much of at the races that I have done. A lot of the bigger guys/gals that I have seen could get under the cutoff with the loss of some blubber.
Myself at 5'10" 175, I can't compete with the fast, skinny guys either. Could I get that slim? Maybe, but I like a little muscle.
I also can't compete with the guys that ran track / cross country / swam in HS or college. I've only been on a bike for 3 years and I can't hang with the guys that have been cycling forever.
But, I don't ask for a different category so I can compete with people that have the same top end speed as me. I feel like the AG categories should be enough.
(DJCIII - this is not meant directly at you, just my general feelings. I wouldn't want to piss someone off that could pick me up and rock me like a baby - Haha)
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djciii
Jun 23, 10 14:25
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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In Reply To:
I get that. You are obviously a physical beast. Damn I wish I was that tall.
That height / weight / body fat puts you in a category that I have not seen much of at the races that I have done. A lot of the bigger guys/gals that I have seen could get under the cutoff with the loss of some blubber.
Myself at 5'10" 175, I can't compete with the fast, skinny guys either. Could I get that slim? Maybe, but I like a little muscle.
I also can't compete with the guys that ran track / cross country / swam in HS or college. I've only been on a bike for 3 years and I can't hang with the guys that have been cycling forever.
But, I don't ask for a different category so I can compete with people that have the same top end speed as me. I feel like the AG categories should be enough.
(DJCIII - this is not meant directly at you, just my general feelings. I wouldn't want to piss someone off that could pick me up and rock me like a baby - Haha)
There I am, in all my glory...getting ready to have my a$$ handed to me on the run leg of Memphis in May.
Anyway, I understand the frustration. Of course I train with guys that are all smaller than me and don't have a chance to make it up to clydesdale. They are fast, faster than me...but I know they will probably never podium in a race. There are just too many guys that are faster than them. I certainly don't podium at every race but I have a much better shot than they do at just about every race where I toe the line. I get that frustration. Every once in a while we clydesdales have to deal with it too. It is funny when you see another clydesdale on the course that is 201 and just beefed up a bit to get out of the AG. I will admit, I try to race AG when I feel I have a chance to place well at a particular race. However, at races that do not lend themselves to my size (hilly and/or hot) I just accept that I need to be in clydesdale.
----------------------------------------------------
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
http://biggintriathlete.blogspot.com/
knightlancer
Jun 23, 10 14:32
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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Because America's full of bloaters. Other countries don't have this nonsense.
Kevin in MD
Jun 23, 10 15:26
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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Search this very board for previous posts on the issue by me and you'll find all you seek.
Or you can look up "clydesdale history" on google. You should get to an article posted by the folks at runbig chicago. You'll see where it all came from, our own humble Baltimore.
runningfoo
Jun 23, 10 15:29
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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I'm 6'8 and 220 pounds. I've won my age group multiple times over the years (mostly by laying down fast bike splits), but only in shorter races. The longer they go, the more I overheat and slow down.
jO4
Jun 23, 10 15:30
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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Why don't they just have Slow and Fast divisions?
Or like cycling Cat IV etc.
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Don't hold back
(This post was
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FisH2O
Jun 23, 10 15:36
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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Having your a$$ handed to you in the run has nothing to do with being tall, I'm pretty sure Matty Reed does just fine at 6'5" 180.
I just ran across my results from MIM in 2007. 30-34 AG.
2nd place in swim: 18:16
15th place in bike: 59.20 (24.8)
34th place run: 46:01 (7:25)
Should there be a category for ex-swimmers who can't run? I got 17th in AG, to podium I would have to drop my 7:25 miles to somewhere around a 6:00 mile. Not going to happen, I just have to face the facts that I won't podium until I can swim in 15" and up my bike speed to 27 or so (like the 2nd place guy who beat me in the swim, averaged 27.2 mph and threw down 6:22's and still got beat by a guy running 5:13's.)
IMHO, Clydesdale/Athena is just another way to make some people feel good about themselves. Just like my nephews playing baseball but "not keeping score" and "everyone gets to bat". Even my nephews don't see what the point is, we're not fooling anyone.
P.S. I do like the triathlon strict age group better than the UCI categories. Granted, I am winning the mtn bike Sport category this year and plan to move up to Comp when I can, but lets face it, I'm sandbagging in Sport if I can win. I can't imagine the sandbagging that would go on if triathlon had categories.
JollyRogers
Jun 23, 10 15:37
Post #13 of 75
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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Boxing and wrestling have weight classes
Cycling has ability-based categories
Running has age groups and sometimes an ability-based category (elite or open)
Triathlon has all 3 - makes sense to me, being TRIathlon after all
djciii
Jun 23, 10 15:52
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [FisH2O]
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Yeah, I guess you aren't familiar with the qualification for clydesdale....has nothing to do with height. As you correctly pointed out I weigh 40 pounds more the Matty....I bet he couldn't put down the run splits with an extra 40 pounds.
----------------------------------------------------
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
http://biggintriathlete.blogspot.com/
RebeccaCreekKid
Jun 23, 10 16:02
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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Our local duathlon this past weekend had...wait for it... Hippo and Rhino categories.
Clydesdale and Athena imply big, muscular *beefy*
Hippo and Rhino? Not flattering, but appropriate!
FisH2O
Jun 23, 10 16:07
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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Doesn't having a set weight (200lbs) give a tall person like yourself a huge advantage over a shorter, but heavier person? Why not a height/weight formula or BMI?
I am assuming this is because it is oriented towards big people, not necessarily fat. I don't see a whole lot of fat on you
In Reply To:
Yeah, I guess you aren't familiar with the qualification for clydesdale....has nothing to do with height. As you correctly pointed out I weigh 40 pounds more the Matty....I bet he couldn't put down the run splits with an extra 40 pounds.
timboricki
Jun 23, 10 16:13
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [RebeccaCreekKid]
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So Clydesdale to most people implies "A large, powerful horse" - IE - A big dude on the race course.
Why did they pick Athena to describe a similarly proportioned female? From this link -
http://www.wisegeek.com/who-is-athena.htm
- it appears that she is the Goddess of Wisdom and War. Does this imply that large women in triathlon are supposed to be more intelligent and can whip a$$ more than their smaller competitors?
Why not stick with the horse theme for male and female? Or the Greek God theme for both sexes?
(I really don't care either way, just a slow day at the office)
TmonT
Jun 23, 10 16:36
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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simplest reason of all - nobody has hit it yet:
there is a demand for it. the product of triathlon meets that demand. nothing more complicated is at work.
if there was adequate demand for a class of wal-mart bikes, or fixies or guys running in crocs, or anything else you care to name - triathlons would meet that demand.
the question of its fairness, or motivation for competing in it, whether on not euro's have it, or any other ethical concern is entirely beside the point. persoanlly, i find it highly ironic that big people completely get over in other sports all their life, but as soon as they find one they don't have a natural advantage in they cry like little girls about it and demand special consideration ( as if they granted special consideration to smaller people back in high school when they were the sports stars . . . . yeah ). but no matter - it's there cuz people want it to be, and support it.
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Dubsey
Jun 23, 10 17:01
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [djciii]
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Yeah, I guess you aren't familiar with the qualification for clydesdale....has nothing to do with height. As you correctly pointed out I weigh 40 pounds more the Matty....I bet he couldn't put down the run splits with an extra 40 pounds.
I'm sure if you really wanted to you could drop 40lbs and run faster
tri_yoda
Jun 23, 10 17:12
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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fatties want to get awards.
In all seriousness, why are there any categories beyond:
Juniors (19 and under)
Open (20-39)
Masters (40+)
People want to get awards and be a winner, so they create more categories to give out more awards.
BDoughtie
Jun 23, 10 17:17
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [tri_yoda]
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People want to get awards and be a winner, so they create more categories to give out more awards.
It's also has the potential to bring in more money for the RD/race. So yes people want to get more awards, but people (race organization) also enjoy making more money. So really it's the American Capitalist way!!
------------------
Brooks Doughtie
USAT-L1; USAT-Y&J; USAC-L2
KaiserChief
Jun 23, 10 17:35
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [bad929]
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I race it because I have low self esteem, weigh 210lbs when I haven't downed a 12 pack, and can't swim very well. I win it because I can bike and run nasty for a boy my size. I'd still rather get alot of sex than get a trophy but races are like women. If they are giving, I am taking. So suck on that all you skinny bitches 8)
Rosshole
Jun 23, 10 17:41
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [KaiserChief]
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In Reply To:
I race it because I have low self esteem, weigh 210lbs when I haven't downed a 12 pack, and can't swim very well. I win it because I can bike and run nasty for a boy my size. I'd still rather get alot of sex than get a trophy but races are like women. If they are giving, I am taking. So suck on that all you skinny bitches 8)
haha
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cyclenutnz
Jun 23, 10 17:49
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [TmonT]
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In Reply To:
i find it highly ironic that big people completely get over in other sports all their life, but as soon as they find one they don't have a natural advantage in they cry like little girls about it and demand special consideration
Actually, at the elite level, more sports have lightweight categories to allow midgets to compete than the reverse. As an example rowing has lightweights, boxing has heaps of weight classes. Running and cycling don't have concessions to size.
Recreational events can do whatever they like to increase consumer buy in, they don't matter in a competitive sense but driving increased participation is (generally) to the good of the sport.
Everyone needs to accept that different bodies suit different sports and that if they want to do something about not being suited to their sport they should change sports or just accept getting beaten. I will never be a Jockey or an elite runner, if I wanted to do something I'm suited to I'd row. But I like Tri and I just aim to be the best I can.
jaretj
Jun 23, 10 17:54
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Re: Why is there a Clydesdale/Athena Category? [timboricki]
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It's to lever the playing field for big people, not fat people.
It just wasn't enough for them to be dominant in Football, Hockey, Basketball etc...they needed a division so they could feel good about themselves in a sport that they are not naturally selected for.
jaretj
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