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What's the latest on the PowerTap models?

 

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morpheus

Jul 20, 10 8:02

Post #1 of 31 (6720 views)
What's the latest on the PowerTap models? Quote | Reply

Might be putting a PT on Santa's list.

Obviously, money is an object, so I'm looking for the model that will give me the most accurate, reliable, useful info for the buck.

I DID DO A SEARCH...And I am still asking.....

Got some good info from an '09 thread with some insight from Rappstar. But, i was wondering if anything has changed in the last year.

Bottom line is this..I'm trying to get more efficient with my training time. And I'm wondering if a PT would cure this, as well as helping me get faster at the same time.

So, I'm trying to break down the Comp, Elite, Sl. That's probably all I can afford....

Any help would be much appreciated.



Morph



"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale


morpheus

Jul 20, 10 8:07

Post #2 of 31 (6709 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I've read the specs on the website. Doesn't mean much to me. I'm the kind that uses a HR monitor occassionally, but not locked into the numbers. For example, I don't ride with a HR monitor with group rides cuz you have to go as hard as necessary to hang on...so, hard is hard...and ez rides are ez without question...etc. So, I guess I've been more of an RPE guy that often wears a HR monitor for kicks. Actually, really just use it to monitor pace on runs. Anyhooo....

Thanks,
Morph



"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale


TriDaveO

Jul 20, 10 8:19

Post #3 of 31 (6695 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I'm the kind that uses a HR monitor occassionally, but not locked into the numbers. For example, I don't ride with a HR monitor with group rides cuz you have to go as hard as necessary to hang on...so, hard is hard...and ez rides are ez without question...etc. So, I guess I've been more of an RPE guy that often wears a HR monitor for kicks.

Are you looking to get a PT mounted to a race wheel or a training wheel? If this is just a training tool, then I'd recommend the Pro+. People say the Pro+ alloy axle is much better then the steel axle on the Elite+. The benefit of going up to the SL+ is mostly weight savings.

IMO: Effective training with power is all about the numbers.

------------------------------------------
http://twitter.com/tridave

| Bonzai Sports | Blue Seventy | First Endurance |


morpheus

Jul 20, 10 8:57

Post #4 of 31 (6643 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [TriDaveO] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think that I would put it on one of John Neugent's wheels, C50. Train and race (with a cover, probably) on that. That would allow me to read watts during the 1-2 races/year with a 'disc' on back and a 808 up front. But, thinking out loud, then what to do with my 808 rear...is it crazy to get it rebuilt with a PT hub? Thus, 2 wheels and one computer. That would be suhweet! But, how much dinero to rebuild the Zipp? cuz I'm not poser enough to start with the Zipp/PT and use it out on training rides...

Crap...where does this end?.....


Morph



"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale


Rappstar

Jul 20, 10 9:20

Post #5 of 31 (6616 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

If you read my post on the 15mm vs 12mm axle, you've seen pretty much all I've got for opinions. Wireless is AWESOME, so I'd be hard pressed to steer you to the Comp unless you really can't afford the Elite. The SL is worth it over the Pro, but I don't think the Pro is really worth it over the Elite.

EDIT: ALL the hubs have the 15mm axle now, which is a great change. see below for more info. My apologies for not being up to date.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


(This post was edited by Rappstar on Jul 20, 10 13:31)


morpheus

Jul 20, 10 9:30

Post #6 of 31 (6594 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

that is the post that I searched, and it made pretty good sense to this layman, now...just gotta figure out where my $ cutoff is.

That's why I threw this out there, to see if anything had changed since that '09 thread.

Thx



"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale


sentania

Jul 20, 10 12:29

Post #7 of 31 (6518 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Looking @ Saris site - it looks like all of the wireless hubs have a 15mm axle now.

Is that true?



Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo


Rappstar

Jul 20, 10 12:41

Post #8 of 31 (6499 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [sentania] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
Looking @ Saris site - it looks like all of the wireless hubs have a 15mm axle now.

Is that true?

EDIT: yes, that is true. Thanks for asking, since somehow I missed that.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


(This post was edited by Rappstar on Jul 20, 10 13:31)


sentania

Jul 20, 10 13:02

Post #9 of 31 (6467 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

http://cycleops.com/...mp;page=shop.compare

Did a compare of the SL+, Pro+ and Elite+ hubs.


Pic in case the link above doesn't work.






Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo


Rappstar

Jul 20, 10 13:12

Post #10 of 31 (6451 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [sentania] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks. I'll check in and report back.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


Rappstar

Jul 20, 10 13:30

Post #11 of 31 (6423 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

New info (thanks to sentania for pointing this out). ALL the hubs use the 15mm axle design. So they are now even closer. The different between SL and PRO is the hub shell. Difference between PRO and ELITE is the axle material. So they ELITE and PRO just got a LOT better. So the Elite is really an awesome, awesome hub right now. Only downside is that the weight is high. But especially for triathlon, weight is way overrated.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


morpheus

Jul 20, 10 18:48

Post #12 of 31 (6323 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Aaahhh..... this is the banter I was looking for. Sounds like I might save a buck or two! And still get a pretty damn good powermeter!

BTW, pulled off that 300 mile solo nonstop brick in 24:20 with about 2:30-2:45 of transition/medical (IV's) time. Awesome effort from all involved and big coin raised for the charity. Race Report soon after I recover physically and mentally for a couple of days. FWIW!


Morph



"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale


mike@wahoo

Sep 22, 10 6:32

Post #13 of 31 (6068 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
New info (thanks to sentania for pointing this out). ALL the hubs use the 15mm axle design. So they are now even closer. The different between SL and PRO is the hub shell. Difference between PRO and ELITE is the axle material. So they ELITE and PRO just got a LOT better. So the Elite is really an awesome, awesome hub right now. Only downside is that the weight is high. But especially for triathlon, weight is way overrated.


Jordan - the difference between the Pro and the Elite is the axle material AND the free hub material (steel vs. aluminium). Plus the Pro allows you to see more data on the computer (I think, still trying to figure out the product cycles). So for $100 difference, you have a more intelligent device and you save 6 ounces with the Pro+ over the Elite. I think the Pro+ is the best deal right now... am I looking at this incorrectly?

Also, is the little yellow computer (I think called cervo), the best option for someone just getting into power? I am very very confused on the right head unit to buy. I like simplicity.
___________


sentania

Sep 22, 10 6:50

Post #14 of 31 (6048 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [shackmantri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The Pro+ only displays less info on the computer if you buy the pro+ as a hub/CPU combo.

if you do what I did - SL+/CPU (race wheel) and Pro+ hub only (training wheel) - you get all the analysis data.


Regarding the Cervo being adequete. I used an SRM for 2 years, and now have the Cervo. In some ways I wish I could merge the two together - particularly the interval functionality of the Cervo over the SRM.

If I had to pick between the two I do prefer the Cervo a bit over the Powercontrol. Mostly because I can configure to display: Power/Cadence/Time - and nothign else - so my brain stays focused on the important things for me.

I have access to a joule - which I might try to use for a bit this week - so sometime soon I'll have an opinion for that.



Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo


mike@wahoo

Sep 22, 10 7:55

Post #15 of 31 (5990 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [sentania] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
The Pro+ only displays less info on the computer if you buy the pro+ as a hub/CPU combo. .


Do you mean the elite+ or the pro+? I thought the pro has the same data fields / cpu as the SL+.

In Reply To:
if you do what I did - SL+/CPU (race wheel) and Pro+ hub only (training wheel) - you get all the analysis data.


Which CPU did you buy? The LYC? This is my big question. I am trying to find which model CPU so I can find one used... can you provide a picture or a model number?
___________


sentania

Sep 22, 10 8:09

Post #16 of 31 (5967 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [shackmantri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I think I meant Elite+ whenever I said pro+

I have an elite+ hub that I bought as a hub only - and a SL+ that I bought with a LYC.



Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo


The_Mickstar

Sep 22, 10 9:20

Post #17 of 31 (5905 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [shackmantri] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
Do you mean the elite+ or the pro+? I thought the pro has the same data fields / cpu as the SL+.
In Reply To:



The data fields, etc. are a function of the LYC, not the hub. If you are planning on using your PT with a Garmin (or other aftermarket computer), you can get all of the same data with either the Elite+ or Pro+ hub.

The main differences between the Elite+ and Pro+ hubs are that the Elite+ has a steel axle & carrier versus the alloy axle & carrier of the Pro+. The steel does add a little weight (which doesn't really matter). But, it also adds durability - especially if you are larger and/or more powerful.

Since the Pro+ has a 15mm alloy axle now (it used to be a 12mm alloy axle), there shouldn't be any flex issues resulting in premature bearing wear (which was an issue with the 12mm alloy axle). But, it does still use an alloy carrier, which can become "galled" by individual cassette cogs if you put out a fair amount of power.

Personally, I went with the Elite+ hub. I wanted the durability. And, I always planned to use a Garmin for the computer. So, the data differences were a non-issue.

Steve

"If you ain't first, you're last." Ricky Bobby Talladega Nights


mgmoehn

Sep 22, 10 11:40

Post #18 of 31 (5834 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I just bought a new Elite+ powertap a month ago. I love it and cannot wait to train more with it. I paired it with a garmin 500. The elite + 500 combo is amazing, I still get a sweet cyclo computer and it reads power as well. The Pro is just weight savings along with the SL... and for training who cares!!

The more you train the better you get. The more you train with power the more efficient you will be and the more you will get out of your riding. The more you train with a "heavier" powertao the better you will be... who needs the lightest stuff for training? That should only be for racing. And honestly I am not sure if I would want to race with a powertap because the more you train with it, the more you will get used to your effort outputs just like when you group ride and HARD is HARD... when you are racing without a powertap you can feel what the difference is between riding controlled up a false flat or a hill and riding HARD. It has helped me be a more controlled rider in my last 2 races and really rock out the last little bit to have a better run.

If you are strapped for cash just get the elite+ ... I would recommend the Garmin 500 because you can pick one up for the same price as the cervo 2.3 ... all you need is a garmin HR strap and your good to go! I built mine on a bulletproof DT Swiss rim... I love it.

Good luck with your search, either way the numbers you crank out will all be the same no matter what hub you choose ;)


biplrsaba

Sep 22, 10 12:26

Post #19 of 31 (5775 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [mgmoehn] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Most coaches I know want the powetap info from races as well, that is why over the winter my build will have the pro+ laced to something 38-42mm deep


sentania

Sep 24, 10 8:35

Post #20 of 31 (5666 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [morpheus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

anybody else notice that all the powertap hubs now include a Joule vs. LYC - excepting of course the Elite+ and Comp?


Wonder if the Elite+ got a little boost on it's comptuer from the hacked version it used to get?



Team RACC | scottbowe.com

"no matt...your FTP is never high enough, there is always room for improvement." - jonnyo


SWoo

Sep 24, 10 8:42

Post #21 of 31 (5657 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [sentania] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

My LYC for my Elite + started acting up and I asked about the different LYC's for Elite+ versus other ANT+ listed on their order page and they told me now they all get the same LYC, and offered to exchange my bad LYC for a new one too!


(This post was edited by SWoo on Sep 24, 10 9:06)


Chris Martin

Oct 7, 10 18:44

Post #22 of 31 (5513 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [SWoo] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I am also considering a PowerTap and am wondering, for the purpose of multisport, why would one NOT want a Garmin wrist unit that you could use on the bike with your PowerTap, that you could then remove and wear for the run?


TundraCat

Oct 7, 10 19:09

Post #23 of 31 (5488 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [ninesixfour] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
I am also considering a PowerTap and am wondering, for the purpose of multisport, why would one NOT want a Garmin wrist unit that you could use on the bike with your PowerTap, that you could then remove and wear for the run?

Using the 310 is not as accurate. The recording interval is less and not configurable. I've compared ride data between the 310 and LYC and power numbers are off. That doesn't stop my from using the 310 for the run but I certainly don't look at the power data.


platbr

Oct 7, 10 19:23

Post #24 of 31 (5470 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [TundraCat] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I have two of the PRO+ models. It should be noted that the SL+, PRO+, etc., will throw out cadence and wheel revolution information, in addition to power. In other words, my bike has *no sensors* at all, yet I get speed, power, and cadence (even when I'm on the trainer).


charris

Oct 7, 10 19:50

Post #25 of 31 (5444 views)
Re: What's the latest on the PowerTap models? [ninesixfour] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I would respectfully disagree with TundraCat on a few points:
-Not as accurate? Dunno about that one. I guess if you're referring to lack of zero averaging then maybe?
-Recording interval less? Nope - 1s is as low as you can go on the LYC. Not configurable? Kind of a moot point unless you want *less* frequent recording.
-Power numbers off? Almost certainly zero averaging and/or stopped time.

Ok, so I guess I sort of agree and sort of disagree. And to add to his list, I think the lack of 3s rolling averages is a bit of an issue, although Lap Power is a decent enough substitute.

But I guess I'm splitting hairs - the 310XT is good, but it's certainly not perfect (of course the same could be said about the LYC). See:

http://sites.google.com/site/garminpower

for more rambling on the subject.

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Ironman prize money
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