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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons?

 

   


Milano

Mar 29, 08 1:25

Post #1 of 15 (16740 views)
Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? Quote | Reply

I have just gotten a pair of new tubular rims (Mavic Carbone Pros) and am wondering whether to use the Tufo Extreme Tubular tape to glue my Conti Comps. So far I've been using traditional glue (Vittoria Mastik), but the tape is tempting me - faster, cleaner, etc. Anyone wants to encourage or discourage me? Just looking to collect as many pros and cons as I can before making the decision. Thanks for chiming in!


_______________________________
Triathletes Anonymous (TA) serenity prayer: "Grant me the serenity to accept defeat in races I cannot win; courage to win the races I can; and wisdom to know the difference."


offthebackagain

Mar 29, 08 3:00

Post #2 of 15 (16729 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Even though I was told by my bike shop (who really does know "things"...great shop) that TUFO tape is ONLY for Tufo tires (something to do with the liner on the tire and, believe it or not, the tape sticking TOO well to non-TUFO brand tires), I use the tape on my Zipp 202's with Conti tires...have for 2 years now and it works GREAT, BUT, BUT, BUT...they sure were correct on it sticking...when it's time to change a flat, you'll be using some muscle to get the tire started off of the rim and then your body weight to get the tire off. I think it's worth it. I also use Vittoria tire sealant when I get flats (to avoid taking the tire off due to flats). It works great on most flats I've had (not blow outs of course)...and I'm pretty sure I have a few 1000 miles on my last Vittoria sealant repair. There you go...your idea works...just works a little too well! Take care and go for it!


Sweeney

Mar 29, 08 5:21

Post #3 of 15 (16702 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Do a search on this forum for Tufo. Most of the posts will be against it, saying that it is slow. Keep using your glue. the worst thing would be to go to the trouble and expense of tubulars only to slow down.
-----------------------------
Gentlemen: We can rebuild him. We have the technology.


easy-rider

Mar 29, 08 5:54

Post #4 of 15 (16687 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I was using Tufo Jets with Tufe extreme tape on Reynolds DV UL aero wheels few years ago and I will NEVER use them again. If you search my posts then you may find a longer explanation why. I didn't have money and time to experiment to find what role played Tufo tape and tire in making me noticably slower compare to Mavic SSC SL or new Reynolds DV UL setup with Vittoria Crono EVO CS glued with Mastik One. Read the following for a harder proof: www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/bicycle/Part7.pdf.


(This post was edited by easy-rider on Mar 29, 08 9:55)


jolenewilkinson

Mar 29, 08 6:55

Post #5 of 15 (16668 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I nk the tape is a great idea. It is faster, less messy, and does a great job. I used it on my tufos-or at least had my shop put it on for me. I am not sure how it woudl work on other tires.
Jolene Wilkinson
Triathlon Coaching http://www.pacificfit.net


Rappstar

Mar 29, 08 8:11

Post #6 of 15 (16644 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Do NOT use it. It is extremely slow. Glue your tires. And keep using Vittoria Mastik. The Tufo tape, like Tufo tires, are some of the worst inventions in the history of cycling. The running equivalent would be "hey, I made this pair of concrete shoes. They never wear out! Want to try them?"

If something is made by Tufo, do not use it. If you've already bought it, "donate" it to your competition.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


Chris G

Mar 29, 08 8:18

Post #7 of 15 (16638 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Rappstar] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
If something is made by Tufo, do not use it. If you've already bought it, "donate" it to your competition.

dont hold back, tell us how you really feel ;-)

IMO Tufo does make the nice valve extenders!

I like these threads much better now that I am tubbie free


596

Mar 29, 08 8:45

Post #8 of 15 (16625 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I use Tufo tires and tape for training. I use glued Conti tires for racing.

If you use the Extreme tape, you'll find that when you flat, when you pull the tire off the tape, it'll leave another layer of tape on the rim that will used to adhere the spare. Its a great feature.
.
.
Paul


Cpt. Clydesdale

Mar 29, 08 8:53

Post #9 of 15 (16619 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I love the Tufo tape (although I use the regular, not the extreme). If you are worried about your tire ever accidentally rolling off, don't, that sucker is on there. It takes me less than 10 minutes to put one on and Tufo has (or had) a great tutorial on how to do it on their website if you don't know what you are doing. As far as others saying it is slow, I have no idea, I've never heard of that before, but am going to look into it. Overall, if you are looking for a nearly idiot proof method of getting on a tubby, it works for me.

-Brandon


Rappstar

Mar 29, 08 8:58

Post #10 of 15 (16615 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Chris G] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That's true. They actually do make the best valve extenders... I take back my previous statement to not use anything Tufo. Their saddle bag might also be ok.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | WTC Ironman Pro Ambassador

Ask me about: Specialized | Compex 20% OFF - RAPPSTAR20 | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec 10% OFF - RAPP2013 | Quarq | SRAM | ZICO | Smith Optics


Cpt. Clydesdale

Mar 29, 08 9:07

Post #11 of 15 (16613 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [easy-rider] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Easy-Rider: I read that entire study you linked too and it didn't have anything at all about the Tufo tape being "slower." It only talked about the required torque to roll a tubular using different types of adhesive. I would say that the info about the Tufo tape should be completely discredited as they start the paper acknowldgeing that different glues respond to different casings differently due to the material used, then when they get to the Tufo tape, they state that Tufo tape is designed only to work with Tufo tires, but then continue to do the experiment using Conti's and get bad results. This makes no sense from what looks like an otherwise well done study. Basically they decided to use a product in a way other than intended by the manufacturer and then got poor results, not much of a surprise. Was there possibily another article about rolling resistance you were trying to link to, I would be really interested to see it (and I'm serious, not being sarcastic, I know it can be hard to tell on the board some times). Thanks!

-Brandon


Milano

Mar 29, 08 9:32

Post #12 of 15 (16603 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Cpt. Clydesdale] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thanks everyone for the input. Most of the things pointed out, I am aware of already. In terms of cons, the tape has been shown to be slower than regular cement. (This is due to hysteresis-induced inefficiencies -- there was an ST post on this a while back, including actual numbers and test results.) Also, the tape may be "too sticky", making tire removal slow and tedious. On the plus side, gluing a tire is fast and clean, and it will stay on the rim through everything.

This means that I might try the tape, then. The Carbones are intended as training wheels, so I am not really concerned about the tape being a bit slower. (My race wheels are a different story -- I am definitely staying with the Mastik cement there.) In terms of changing a flat: I can change a tubular faster than a clincher tire (as insane as that is likely to sound to most of you). The strong adhesive property of the tape worries me a little, but then again, I remind myself that whenever I got a flat in the past, I did not remove the tire, actually. Instead, I removed the valve core, put some sealant in, inflated with CO2, and continued home or to T2 (got there just fine each time so far). So given that I strip and glue tires only at home, the extra stickiness isn't a real obstacle either...

Am I missing something else?


_______________________________
Triathletes Anonymous (TA) serenity prayer: "Grant me the serenity to accept defeat in races I cannot win; courage to win the races I can; and wisdom to know the difference."


easy-rider

Mar 29, 08 10:39

Post #13 of 15 (16574 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Cpt. Clydesdale] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

In Reply To:
Easy-Rider: I read that entire study you linked too and it didn't have anything at all about the Tufo tape being "slower." It only talked about the required torque to roll a tubular using different types of adhesive. I would say that the info about the Tufo tape should be completely discredited as they start the paper acknowldgeing that different glues respond to different casings differently due to the material used, then when they get to the Tufo tape, they state that Tufo tape is designed only to work with Tufo tires, but then continue to do the experiment using Conti's and get bad results. This makes no sense from what looks like an otherwise well done study. Basically they decided to use a product in a way other than intended by the manufacturer and then got poor results, not much of a surprise. Was there possibily another article about rolling resistance you were trying to link to, I would be really interested to see it (and I'm serious, not being sarcastic, I know it can be hard to tell on the board some times). Thanks!

-Brandon
Go ahead, keep convincing yourself that Tufo tape is the best. You should at least quote the paper fairly. The paper says "

The instructions state that this tape was developed specifically for Tufo tires and that performance with other tires may differ." which is not the same as "designed to ONLY work with Tufo tires" in your interpretation. BTW, Tufo Web site and instructions on the Tufo extreme tape box say nothing about the tape specifically designed or working only with Tufo tires. The purpose of the study (quote) "is to examine adhesion to carbon fiber rims" and as conclusion say "Tufo Tape is inferior to conventional glues in both aluminum and carbon fiber applications." As you may know adhesion has an impact on rolling resistance. Even aging of glue bond is critical for rolling resistance. If you are looking for specific rolling resistance numbers for Tufo then you may search this forum. There was a post with rolling resistance table for clinchers and tubulars depending on air pressure, glue aging, etc. Tufo didn't look good. BTW, I still have a new (not even stretched) Tufo Elite Jet tire (black/red) and extreme tape hanging in my closet. Do you want them for 1/2 price? Hey, wait, I'll give you even 60% off if you decide to buy them today.




(This post was edited by easy-rider on Mar 29, 08 10:47)


Diesel

Mar 29, 08 10:43

Post #14 of 15 (16569 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I used tape (regular) several years ago as I was in a rush. I left a 1" opposite the valve opening for "easier" removal. The reality is that it is not an "easy" removal..certainly not a "race worthy" set-up.

After those tires went bad, it took a solid 4 hours (2 per wheel) to get the residue off the wheel enough to be replaced with glue. Factor this into your decision and the time savings on the front end.

I went back to gluing tires..it's actually a very easy and enjoyable process. It's theraputic....like wrapping bar tape.

As for being slow...the reality is that tape leaves a Xmm squishy barrier between the tubular and the rim. It never actually hardens. Couple this extra space with the cotton strip already on the tubular and you're only adding rolling resistance. Using the right glue and proper application along with a quality tubular would be ideal.

Good luck.


TriBriGuy

Mar 29, 08 11:17

Post #15 of 15 (16556 views)
Re: Tufo Tubular Tape - pros and cons? [Milano] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Tape is S............................L...........................O..................................W...............................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***********************

AmZof Lemming! Target AmZof SC 2013!

   
 
 
 



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