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Tour de Ironman Florida in video

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....

Nov 7, 07 6:24

Post #1 of 106 (2298 views)

Tour de Ironman Florida in video	Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWzdIF8eCDs

(This post was edited by Francois on Nov 7, 07 6:33)

trinow

Nov 7, 07 6:36

Post #2 of 106 (2265 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

PATHETIC...and they call themselves "Ironmen". Weak minded cheaters need to HTFU.

(This post was edited by trinow on Nov 7, 07 6:40)

Epiclesis

Nov 7, 07 6:38

Post #3 of 106 (2251 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This was already posted.
----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

....

Nov 7, 07 6:40

Post #4 of 106 (2245 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Epiclesis] [In reply to]	Can't Post

that can't be posted too much

tjs

Nov 7, 07 6:52

Post #5 of 106 (2199 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Stop!

I decided to sign up for Florida instead of IMWI (I had a certificate) I feel like I really fu**ed this decision up now. I really enjoyed Florida in 2001 and 2002, but I might just have to eat the registration fee and take an available slot else where at IMCA 70.3.

WTF did I do? I really didn't hink the drafting would be that bad. It looks like this video is around mile 70 of the bike so it is probably like this the whole way. *SIGH*

....

Nov 7, 07 6:54

Post #6 of 106 (2193 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [tjs] [In reply to]	Can't Post

if that makes you feel better, I've seen packs like that in Embrun...you'd think it would be the last place where you'd see this, but no...first climb, you expect people to be ganged up...but then on the plat portion on the other side of the lake...same crap.

Mike Prevost

Nov 7, 07 6:59

Post #7 of 106 (2164 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ironically the increased drafting is likely to make the race more popular rather than less popular. Many people will see it as an opportunity to put up a killer bike split. It is surprising how many people don't mind cheating in an ironman. Amazingly, most of them will never get a Kona slot or make a single dollar from the sport and are racing for self satisfaction only. How much self satisfaction can you have if you cheated? Doesn't make sense to me but the race is full of those people. Personally I don't care much about the drafters except the packs tend to get in the way.

Mike

monty

Nov 7, 07 7:01

Post #8 of 106 (2152 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Funny thing is that some people will say that it was the turn that maybe bunched them up, when in fact, because of the marginal cycling skills of triathletes, that was as far apart as they would have been because of the turn....And that was probably a small to medium pack, I'm sure there were some 50+ peletons out there.

Just allow drafting already, it's time..In this one respect, Les McDonald was way ahead of his time....

S~

Nov 7, 07 7:07

Post #9 of 106 (2132 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [monty] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just allow drafting already, it's time..In this one respect, Les McDonald was way ahead of his time....

That is the only solution and i don't know why it is called "cheating"?? It can be breaking the rules but definetely not cheating.
_________________________________________________

It hurts so bad, it feels good.

t2k

Nov 7, 07 7:18

Post #10 of 106 (2074 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Mike Prevost] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Amazingly, most of them will never get a Kona slot or make a single dollar from the sport and are racing for self satisfaction only"

I bet you'll be surprised how many people think they are in with a shot at a roll down if only they have that perfect race and draft to stay "in the game" before blowing up the run because for them trying to keep up with the pack was too hard.

I think both increasing the time penalty and taking away that kona slot as a penalty for drafting (as was brought up on another thread) might just be enough to break things up

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
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trinow

Nov 7, 07 7:21

Post #11 of 106 (2060 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [black] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Breaking the rules in sport to gain an advantage is cheating. If it is not cheating, than what is?

S~

Nov 7, 07 7:27

Post #12 of 106 (2034 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [trinow] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Breaking the rules is breaking the rules not cheating. Cheating is done something sneaky behind everyones back. I have no problem with drafters, and in some situations you can't avoid it. heck look at the video there will be millions of explanations but it is the turn around. not a 50 mile strech. yes they were in drafting zone and I wonder how many of them actually in there for a benefit from drafting or just necesity. Also this works both ways, when I throw a GU wrapper in the park on my long runs i get warned by fellow runners and I pick it up. I've never seen anyone saying or doing anything to fellow racers during the bike. yet, I love the fact 90%of these people blaming others cheating and blaming race directors putting so may racers on the course, go ahead and sign up for the race and do the same thing.
_________________________________________________

It hurts so bad, it feels good.

SlayerHatebreed

Nov 7, 07 7:32

Post #13 of 106 (2016 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This isn't meant vs. you Francois at all but it kind of surprises me that people are surprised at drafting at IM Florida... is this a new phenomenon? Like it or not, it's been part of the race for years and it won't change. Look at the times down there and compare them with any clean race. They are very different.

I'd like to be able to do this race: end of the year, cheap trip, IM qualifier, but my guilt won't let me. There will always be an asterisk next to race times down there as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure there are a good portion of clean riders but I'm not willing to train my ass off and risk being very disappointed.

....

Nov 7, 07 7:35

Post #14 of 106 (1995 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [black] [In reply to]	Can't Post

So, if I get to the start line, put my testosterone patch on, pop 2-3 amphetamines, it's not cheating because I did it in front of everyone?
I know it's just semantics, but yours is really weird...

BIGZACH

Nov 7, 07 7:35

Post #15 of 106 (1989 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Joe Bonness is pulling this group.

but go ahead and freeze frame parts and see if you recognize anyone else??

ggeiger

Nov 7, 07 7:36

Post #16 of 106 (1987 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [black] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I hate to break this to you, but this was not the turnaround. It was a corner, and yes, it's drafting, and yes, it's cheating.

tjs

Nov 7, 07 7:41

Post #17 of 106 (1954 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [SlayerHatebreed] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am not sure there are any "clean" races. I have seen plenty of drafting at IMWI the three times I have done it. I have heard from reliable friends that Canada and CDA are bad as well. Florida may be the worst of the bunch, but it is far from being the only race where drafting is a problem.

I signed up fro Florida next year. I think I will try to get a slot at a "real" race at IMCA 70.3 next year as well and do a double. Florida offers me no hope of qualifying since I rely on strong bike and great run to place high in my age group. I don't remember Florida being this bad in 2001 and 2002 when I did it, but I can't argue with the current situation. I wont make the mistake of signing up for it again.

....

Nov 7, 07 7:42

Post #18 of 106 (1948 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [tri-3] [In reply to]	Can't Post

nah...you stay behind the pack, really quietly, sneaking up on everyone...now that is cheating ;-)

WVTRIMAN

Nov 7, 07 7:49

Post #19 of 106 (1915 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [tri-3] [In reply to]	Can't Post

First off, you must realize that there are pros and cons to any solution and you can never please everyone. This being said, given the number of participants at any given ironman and keeping the idea of "You against the course/clock" alive, why not move towards making every IM a time trial start like they did at IM Louisville? That format really spread out the pack and virtually eliminated drafting packs on the bike. It also made the swim safer by making it easier for monitors to recognize someone in distress. It's just a thought and I'm aware of the "It's a tradition" and "What about the spirit of competition" arguments.

Scott in PDX

Nov 7, 07 7:51

Post #20 of 106 (1908 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [tjs] [In reply to]	Can't Post

>>"WTF did I do? I really didn't hink the drafting would be that bad. It looks like this video is around mile 70 of the bike so it is probably like this the whole way."

I doubt that more then 10-15% of the field was blatantly drafting. From my position in the field (1:10 swim / 5:17 bike) I saw two big packs, both on the back side of the 3.5 mile out-and-back. The one in this video was probably the first, and a couple minutes behind was a much larger one. I've heard there was another large pack behind me, but we're talking a couple hundred people out of a field of 2200+.

I did see other incidents of drafting, including two occurrences where riders tucked in behind trucks, but they were pretty isolated and consisted of a handful of riders. I did have to go above my goal effort on a couple of occasions to either drop a couple of people, or at least get to a clearing in the field where I could then drop back if anyone tagged along. Outside of this there was the typical IM mid-pack swim congestion over the first 20 miles and near aid-stations, special needs, and turns.

Despite seeing the two large packs on the back half of the course, I also had long periods where I had no one near me.

If I were racing for a Kona slot, I would be pissed to think I lost it due to pack riding, but as it was I found it disappointing without distracting from my personal experience.

Scott

ggeiger

Nov 7, 07 7:54

Post #21 of 106 (1893 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [WVTRIMAN] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I understand your argument, but I'm not interested in a "make it easier" race. Even though I got pummeled, I like the mass start, the racing head to head. Why must our society make it easier instead of holding people accountable?

S~

Nov 7, 07 7:57

Post #22 of 106 (1882 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nope not at all. its your choice and your race, not mine. If you draft behind me I'll try to get rid of you but if I see two, three or 30 people drafting i dont care at all. I never sign up for a race with an intention to win, my main goal is to have fun and enjoy it.
_________________________________________________

It hurts so bad, it feels good.

eDeRoche

Nov 7, 07 7:57

Post #23 of 106 (1879 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [Francois] [In reply to]	Can't Post

To anyone who complains about the drafting at IMFL I say this... GET FASTER so you can avoid it!

Man, after reading and posting on Slowtwitch for awhile I too am turning into an a-hole.
"Spectacular achievements are always preceded by spectacular preparation."

WVTRIMAN

Nov 7, 07 8:01

Post #24 of 106 (1864 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [tri-3] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

How does a time trial start make the race easier? If anything it makes it harder by making it harder to get sucked along on that huge draft in the swim. My suggestion has nothing to do with avoiding contact during the swim, it does have to do with spreading out the pack to cut down on drafting on the bike.

This does raise a good question...
Do you race harder during a time trial race where you don't know if the guy/girl next to you started before or after you, or do you race faster in a mass start race? (From a psychological standpoint)

ggeiger

Nov 7, 07 8:14

Post #25 of 106 (1816 views)

Re: Tour de Ironman Florida in video [WVTRIMAN] [In reply to]	Can't Post

A TT start does make the race easier from the standpoint of that lack of jostling for position, and the large draft you mention very seldom actually happens as those early fast starters burn out, and one is forced to find clean water. There is much more contact, and even though I don't like getting smashed like I did saturday, it is part of the sorting out proess that separates the sport from a swim meet.
As and stated on one of the other threads, how was a TT swim start going to affect the drafting that was goin on after 70 miles, where it was the worst? The IMKY TT start logic is flawed in that the cyclists were drafting the worst after 70 miles.

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