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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me?

 

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Tri@PUR

Jul 3, 08 13:25

Post #1 of 31 (786 views)
To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? Can't Post

Hello all I recently completed my first half iron distance triathlon. The med Express, Spirit of Morgantown Half my final time was 6h and 52 min wayyyyyyyyy over my projected time of close to 6 hours. Much of the "disaster" I think was due to many cramps that started during the swim. I admit not drinking a lot of water during the weeks after the event but doing a good job trying to get as many liquids as I could, including drinking lots of COLA and Gatorade. I was feeling really tire and heavy during the previous days leading to the race but did felt ok on race morning. Had a nice breakfast of a CliffBar, apple sauce and gatorade. It was a slow swim for me due to a heavy current against us all the way up the final turnaround. I was projecting a 37-38min swim and endep up swimming 41 mins. That's when the problems started I had a few hamstrings little pulls during the last part of the swim and struggle to get out of the water on my way to t1, I managed to stand up jog nicely to t1. During the first loop of the bike course I took it easy and managed a decent first lap, that when the real problems started! On my way to the 2 lap my hamstring strained completly I couldn't pedal and had to stop in the middle of the street to stretch it tenderly, it was really painful even to stand up. I stand there for about 5-7 minutes took a gel, gatorade endurance and some water. I did improve a little bit and I got on the bike again and keep on going but real scared cause my hamstrings were threading me of shutting down in any minute. I then started trying to use my cuadriceps a little bit more to relax mi hamstrings and did burned them too. So I was basically with no legs. I managed to complete the second lap and went into t2 feeling like the race was over for me. On the bike I took, 4 gels, 24 onz of gatorade endurance formula, about 40 onz of H20 and a banana. Onto t2 I was so cramped up that had to lay on the floor to put my shoes, out I went went and started jogging now it was the cuadriceps which where shutting down and burning, after the first mile 9:30 it stopped and I endep up running pretty well for about 7 miles with and under 10 min mile pace. When I got the 7 mile it was the end I could jog anymore, hamstrings, and cuadriceps cramped up and burning. I alternated between walking and jogging for the rest of the way to finish the nightmare. what really pisses me off is that I wasn't that fatigued.. This is the second time this has happen to me on both during longer than olympic distance tris. What's wrong with me? Will I be able to compete at the top of my capability and acording to my fitness level ? Any recomendations or diagnostics will be much appreciated...

Results: swim t1 bike avg t2 run (includes t2) total

00:42:54

05:06

236

03:25:19

16.4

00:00

231

02:40:51

12:17

06:54:10




leggett24

Jul 3, 08 13:32

Post #2 of 31 (777 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I admit not drinking a lot of water during the weeks after the event but doing a good job trying to get as many liquids as I could, including drinking lots of COLA and Gatorade.

  Did you mean the weeks before the race?


Tri@PUR

Jul 3, 08 13:33

Post #3 of 31 (771 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [leggett24] [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes the weeks before the event, my regular water intake is not that good.


Devlin

Jul 3, 08 13:40

Post #4 of 31 (762 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm assuming COLA is some kind of a sports/energy drink? If it is actual soda, you know that caffeine is a natural diuretic, and that by drinking it you're defeating the purpose of extra fluids?

John

I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]

Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars


jtntexas

Jul 3, 08 13:49

Post #5 of 31 (749 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Devlin] [In reply to] Can't Post

Bzzzz. Wrong answer. If all you did was drink coke, you'd be fine for hydration.
http://www.jacn.org/...ontent/full/19/5/591

The Effect of Caffeinated, Non-Caffeinated, Caloric and Non-Caloric Beverages on Hydration
Conclusions:
Ann C. Grandjean, EdD, FACN, CNS, Kristin J. Reimers, RD, MS, Karen E. Bannick, MA and Mary C. Haven, MS
The Center for Human Nutrition, (A.C.G., K.J.R.), Omaha, Nebraska
School of Allied Health Professions, University of Nebraska Medical Center (M.C.H.), Omaha, Nebraska
Bannick Consulting, Isle, Minnesota (K.E.B.)

-----
This preliminary study found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not substantiated by the results of this study. The across-treatment weight loss observed, when combined with data on fluid-disease relationships, suggests that optimal fluid intake may be higher than common recommendations. Further research is needed to confirm these results and to explore optimal fluid intake for healthy individuals.




In Reply To
I'm assuming COLA is some kind of a sports/energy drink? If it is actual soda, you know that caffeine is a natural diuretic, and that by drinking it you're defeating the purpose of extra fluids?

John

 


Devlin

Jul 3, 08 14:08

Post #6 of 31 (733 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [jtntexas] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Bzzzz. Wrong answer. If all you did was drink coke, you'd be fine for hydration.
http://www.jacn.org/...ontent/full/19/5/591

The Effect of Caffeinated, Non-Caffeinated, Caloric and Non-Caloric Beverages on Hydration
Conclusions:
Ann C. Grandjean, EdD, FACN, CNS, Kristin J. Reimers, RD, MS, Karen E. Bannick, MA and Mary C. Haven, MS
The Center for Human Nutrition, (A.C.G., K.J.R.), Omaha, Nebraska
School of Allied Health Professions, University of Nebraska Medical Center (M.C.H.), Omaha, Nebraska
Bannick Consulting, Isle, Minnesota (K.E.B.)

-----
This preliminary study found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not substantiated by the results of this study. The across-treatment weight loss observed, when combined with data on fluid-disease relationships, suggests that optimal fluid intake may be higher than common recommendations. Further research is needed to confirm these results and to explore optimal fluid intake for healthy individuals.




In Reply To
I'm assuming COLA is some kind of a sports/energy drink? If it is actual soda, you know that caffeine is a natural diuretic, and that by drinking it you're defeating the purpose of extra fluids?

John

 

  <sigh>

Gotta love when people just jump to piss all over each other. There are mixed reviews, and cases made on both sides. I drink caffeine, I pee more. I used it to help drop weight for wrestling. For me, I have to limit how much caffeine I take in.

From your study:


Quote
To be considered, volunteers had to be of normal and stable weight, exercise less than four one-hour sessions per week, not participate in sports on a routine and competitive basis, be willing to abstain from alcohol on specified days of the testing period, have a usual, average caffeine consumption between 20 mg and 1000 mg/day, have normal gastrointestinal function, consume a diet with no extreme food, beverage, or dietary supplement intakes, be willing to abstain from supplements during the study, be free of medications that might influence weight or fluid and electrolyte balance, be free of any chronic illnesses, live and work in an environment of ambient temperature with no significant temperature and humidity variation and have a fairly routine schedule day to day, including nocturnal sleep patterns.

 
Also from your study:

Quote
Subjects consumed treatment beverages on Wednesdays. On Tuesdays and Wednesdays of each week, subjects followed a prescribed diet. They reported to the laboratory each week on Wednesday and Thursday mornings for collection of blood, urine and body weight measurements (Fig. 1). Subjects were free-living and allowed to carry on with their usual activities that were consistent with the protocol. After post-treatment data collection on Thursday morning, subjects followed their usual dietary habits, which included their normal caffeine beverage consumption. To monitor unusual variability, subjects recorded data on weight, urinary frequency, stool output and other routes of fluid loss during all days of the study period and for one week before and after the study. Any exceptions to the protocol, such as exertion (e.g., shoveling snow), diarrhea or other situations that could affect hydration were recorded. If subject experienced circumstances that could alter fluid balance, testing was postponed until the following week.

 
So you take a bunch of people that don't exercise much, feed them the prescribed beverages one day out of the week (assuming they didn't do anything unusual like take a walk that week, in which case they postponed it), and conclude that soda doesn't dehydrate you.

John

I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]

Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars


jtntexas

Jul 3, 08 14:13

Post #7 of 31 (719 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Devlin] [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, who needs fancy peer reviewed studies when Devlin's opinion is what counts!


Devlin

Jul 3, 08 14:27

Post #8 of 31 (709 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [jtntexas] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yeah, who needs fancy peer reviewed studies when Devlin's opinion is what counts!

  Heh, that's not what I meant. :D (But hey, if it works for anyone, let me know, I always wanted my own sycophant...)

For a lot of things, you can find studies proving just about whatever you want, hell, look at the studies that coggan and day come up with, each proving the opposite sides of the same coin.

John

I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]

Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars

(This post was edited by Devlin on Jul 3, 08 14:28)


Tri@PUR

Jul 3, 08 20:31

Post #9 of 31 (650 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Devlin] [In reply to] Can't Post

still don't have any response as to what might be causing those many cramps, I forgot to mention it was hot on one race and cold and overcast in the other one (weather not an option)


TNFeDad

Jul 3, 08 20:39

Post #10 of 31 (645 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

i cramp up really easy and in all weather conditions. I eliminated a majority of my cramping issues by hydrating well before and during race and taking thermolyte electrolyte replacement during any longer event. Thermolyte provides quite a bit more replacement than the endurolytes.


MuffinTop

Jul 3, 08 20:39

Post #11 of 31 (644 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like you might not be as fit as you thought you were.
--
"Oh no, it's the dreaded Muffin Top!" --Mythbusters
http://willronco.com


Tri@PUR

Jul 3, 08 20:42

Post #12 of 31 (639 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [MuffinTop] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thx muffin, I wonder how fit you are and how old. I'm 23 on first Half with about 6 weeks of moderate training and over 10 hours of traveling before the event. My longest run = 12 miles 2 weeks out, my longest swim 2000 mts, my longest bike = 62 miles


SeattleTK

Jul 3, 08 21:49

Post #13 of 31 (621 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

For a year I was having issues bad issues with cramping while swimming. I tried everything, expensive supplements, stretching, hydration, electrolytes, bananas...

Over lunch my Mom mentioned trying tonic water of all things. (I totally discounted it) I was working with a USAT swim coach that was also perplexed with the issue. She put a call out to USAT coaches on the issue. Most of the replays were the same things listed above that I had already tried.

One reply sang the praises of tonic water, willing to try anything at this point I gave it a shot...I learned two things.

1. Listen to your mother! (I'm 33 and still forget this from time to time)

2. Tonic water knocked out my cramps! Every couple of days I try to drink a 12 oz. can.

Apparently its the quinine in the tonic water that does the trick. Unfortunately tonic water mixed with gin or vodka doesn't seem to have the same effect.

Give it a shot,

Travis
www.dumbfocus.com


canuck8

Jul 3, 08 23:50

Post #14 of 31 (595 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

Firstly , water does not hydrate you . Electrolytes do: Sodium , magnesium , Potassium and Calcium.

What electrolytes were you using , if any ?

Terry


" Dream big and strive to separate yourself"
Chris Lieto...Oct. 2006


leggett24

Jul 4, 08 6:13

Post #15 of 31 (559 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thx muffin, I wonder how fit you are and how old. I'm 23 on first Half with about 6 weeks of moderate training and over 10 hours of traveling before the event. My longest run = 12 miles 2 weeks out, my longest swim 2000 mts, my longest bike = 62 miles

  I think that may be your answer, along with electolytes.


MuffinTop

Jul 4, 08 6:35

Post #16 of 31 (551 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm as old as the hills and not fit enough :-)
I think that if the same thing has happened to you in two consecutive races with totally different weather conditions, maybe you need to look at your pacing. If your pacing is too aggressive, you're always going to fall apart toward the end of the race. If it's way too aggressive, you'll fall apart in the middle. I mean work on the water/salt thing too, but it sounds like you're having too much trouble, too early on in the race for it to be just that.
--
"Oh no, it's the dreaded Muffin Top!" --Mythbusters
http://willronco.com


Tri@PUR

Jul 4, 08 8:55

Post #17 of 31 (526 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [MuffinTop] [In reply to] Can't Post

During the race I used a combination of Gu gels, accel gels, hammer gels and power gels, that with plain water and gatorade endurance formula.. that was it..


Khai

Jul 4, 08 9:18

Post #18 of 31 (514 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [SeattleTK] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Unfortunately tonic water mixed with gin or vodka doesn't seem to have the same effect.

 
I'm going to need some published, peer-reviewed studies before I buy that line of BS...

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?


leggett24

Jul 4, 08 9:37

Post #19 of 31 (502 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

Why so many different gels?
I really do think you have to look at your conditioning and pacing. "6 weeks of moderate training" doesn't make for a great 1/2IM. It also isn't enough to let you know what effort you're really capable of.


Devlin

Jul 4, 08 13:16

Post #20 of 31 (468 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Khai] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Unfortunately tonic water mixed with gin or vodka doesn't seem to have the same effect.

 
I'm going to need some published, peer-reviewed studies before I buy that line of BS...

  Maybe you can get them the same time you get your shoes, I hear RR is having a publication sale... :D

John

I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]

Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars


MuffinTop

Jul 4, 08 13:39

Post #21 of 31 (458 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
During the race I used a combination of Gu gels, accel gels, hammer gels and power gels, that with plain water and gatorade endurance formula.. that was it..

 
Seriously, the problem is not the food.
--
"Oh no, it's the dreaded Muffin Top!" --Mythbusters
http://willronco.com


da2000EXdriver

Jul 4, 08 14:29

Post #22 of 31 (439 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

My coach told me never do gatorade because I was cramping in evening masters swim after long run/bike workouts during the day. Just pain water. Some people don't do well on gatorade. I can do gels and plain water and not cramp all day long. Gatorade just seems to slow my stomach down too much. I can drink gatorade after I'm done for the day and usually do.


jenhs

Jul 4, 08 14:47

Post #23 of 31 (434 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you use the same nutrition as is typical for you? How much nutrition testing did you do during your training? If you are getting the same results during separate races then it is clear you need to experiment more.

My typical answer when I start to cramp up or feel one come on is to take an Endurolyte or two, depending on the weather. If things start to go south during a race then you need to make an adjustment right then. If my stomach starts to feel lousy or my muscles go a bit wonky I switch my nutrition immediately and don't try to keep cramming stuff in there.

You need to pay much closer attention to what you put into your body leading up to the race. Not just the food but the liquids as well.

I do horrible on Gatorade and clearly I'm not the only one. Many of my friends don't touch the stuff.

I also think you are mixing too many things into your stomach as you race. I go for a very straight forward intake, Accel gels and Perpetuem on the bike and depending on the distance, Accelerade, pretzels and/or Coke on the run. That is what I stick to in training and racing. Not sure if cramps would be the result of the mix but clearly it isn't working for you.

Increase your water intake on a daily basis and be sure you are balanced in your electrolytes. Leading up to a race I add salt to my food too. I've never had a cramp stop me during a race.

All of this comes with experience on long distance racing.

I don't think this is a fitness issue.
----------------
Jenhs


CarlyBoy

Jul 4, 08 15:39

Post #24 of 31 (417 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [jenhs] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm with MuffinTop, food is not your problem.

Cramping can be incited by any one of or a combination of factors. While electrolytes are the first thing most mention, it by no means is the only culprit. It certainly doesn't explain the cramps you might get in one of those early season duathlons that last only an hour or so - you simply don't have time to become electrolyte depleted in that time span.

I think athletes mistakenly attribute a "dialed-in" electrolyte intake to the reason for their disappearing cramps as a season wears on. While this certainly can be true, also consider that as the season wears on, you have likely increased the intensity and volume of your training - this includes racing. As your body becomes more accustomed to the punishment you give it (ie, as you become fitter), you are better able to handle it. Of intensity and volume, I believe training (and racing) with intensity will banish cramps more effectively. "Train hard" and your cramps will, in time, disappear.

canuck8, are you serious? "Water doesn't hydrate you, ..electrolytes do"?! Electrolytes are chemicals that form electrically charged particles (called ions) in body fluids. These ions carry the electrical energy necessary many functions like muscle contractions, transmission of nerve impulses, etc.

From Wikipedia:
Hydrate is a term used in chemistry to indicate that a substance contains water.


footwerx

Jul 4, 08 15:41

Post #25 of 31 (417 views)
Re: To cramped up during long races. WTF is happening to me? [Tri@PUR] [In reply to] Can't Post

based on that amount of training, i suspect the most likely reason for your problems is lack of sufficient endurance/training. All 3 disciplines are very short of high volume workouts. lack of fitness will not show very easily over olympic distance. most people can tough it out even with suboptimal fitness. but at HIM level, lack of endurance will show very quickly. you really should be aiming for at least 15-16 mile long runs 1x/week, be able to do 3000-4000m swim sets comfortably, and bike 70+ miles comfortably.

if your longest swim before the event was 2km, and the conditions are suboptimal like in your race, already you end up being in the water swimming for longer than you ever swim in training, all at one shot without stopping, which you are not used to. That probably caused your muscle cramping to begin with. Then he cycling just made it worse.

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