Obviously you made that choice when faced with that....I didn't. We all have choices.

And it's too bad Kona didn't live up to your dreams. I have to admit; you're the first I've heard say that.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

You right Don. But some do have that chance, and I stayed away from Florida this year because of those that chose to cheat last year. Looks like I'll stay away again. But Kona still is my focus.

> And it's too bad Kona didn't live up to your dreams. I have to admit; you're the first I've heard say that.

Other than the swim, the bike and run were rather uninspiring. I've raced 100 mile TTs on more interesting roads than the Queen K. I was truly underwhelmed by the course. Sorry but that is my opinion. However, I was very impressed by the pros and the many amazing age-groupers, a lot of whom don't seem to have jobs, but that's another matter.

After 10 years of triathlons, the race I enjoyed the most was the Escape from Alcatraz. All 3 disciplines were technical and the location is pretty unbeatable.

For flat course IMs, I'd choose the Kalmar Jannerman any day, but Lake Placid and Lanzarote are far more interesting.

If/When you do get to Hawaii, what will your dream be then?

SteveMc

Getting back again....(no one ever gets tired of going to the Super Bowl, do they?).

If you want to do a great, and tough race similar to the ones you mention, I'd suggest going over to Vegas for the Pumpkinman race. One of the toughest I've done.

I apologize for derailing the thread a bit.....

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

I was a motorcycle driver for a race marshall (I was going to be a marshall but they needed motorcycle drivers) and all I can say is that we were overwelmed by the packs as well. First the construction on 79 was bad so we were told to be kinda lenient until after the construction. But once we hit 20 I was assigned a 11 mile stretch and we wrote up 45 people, there was only one marshall assigned to this stretch but we had 3 working it until they hit their area of responsibility. I was amazed at the people that watch for the marshalls. Yes they are blatantly cheating. I did the race last year and was able to ride a clean race by dropping back or passing and riding a little harder than I had originally planned so I know first hand how bad it is out there. The big problem we had was that the media took 7 of our motorcycles, leaving 7 marshalls without rides. We would have had a much bigger presence if that had not happened, we are also required to watch a person comitting the infraction, and I would pull up to see people start to pass, knowing they were probably drafting before I got there but not able to do anything about it. I have been racing for over 20 years and this is not what the spirit of Triathlon is about. I will do the race again and I will do it legally again but if I'm not racing I will be out there working to make it a fair race. If you were written up and feel you didn't deserve it, think about the fact that we just watched you for about 30-45 seconds and have to make a decision. That may not seem like a long time but it is, and we are trying to do our best. We don't get paid (except for our gas) we work all day long and without volunteers it would be much worse, so don't beat up on the refs too much. But to argue when you are caught is just petty. I had a AG man drafting off a Femal Pro on Front beach and when we carded him he was outraged, the pro told us thank you, my son worked the penalty tent the last 2 years and said there were twice as many people this year as last. We will do our part but you must do yours. Congrats to everyone who finished. And if you thought the bike was bad did you see the swim? We have a picture of a guy with fins!

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Grandpa Dave
Sponsors/ Main Sponsor WIFE!!!
RUDY PROJECT
http://www.e-rudy.com

Thanks you for your help, and being part of the solution. Now if we only had a few dozen more like you.....

We also need to petition to put more "meat" into the penalties, but this has been debated here non-stop as well.

Once again, ITRI2008, I salute you!

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Although this sounds good, it can be very dangerous to have race horses flying past older ladies, and men, on the bike. Real danger. Of course, at a Championship level race the effect may not be as bad. I have seen this at local/regional type races and it was a disaster. At many local races I am now in the last wave (older men) and with cycling being a strength, it is scary passing folks.

david
www.daviddaggett.wordpress.com

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

one of the largest pelotons I've seen in an IM was at IM France, which is quite hilly. The mindset makes the difference, not the course. On the other hand, I've done IMAZ four times and have yet to see large pelotons on that course.

it's easy to say that the packs result from overcrowding, but there is a definite intent to draft seen over and over. i've done this race numerous times and managed to race clean while the packs were in full force. it was an issue at gulf coast, on the same course basically, before imf existed. if there's an opportunity to draft there are some people out there that will do it. regardless of wave starts (btw, always used at gulf coast half) the situation will continue until some teeth are put into the penalties. make the first call 10minutes, second call dq. that just might help more than wave starts. as it is, if they think they might not get caught, or that they can gain at least 4 minutes before they get caught, the risk is worth it to some. also, as has been noted, this phenomenon is not limited to florida by any means. the same cheaters who use these tactics to get to kona can even be seen sucking wheels along the queen k every october.

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"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

A contributing factor, yes, but not a cause. There's a difference between lots of people riding closely because they're forced to, and blatant drafting. Even if a course is busy you can find ways to avoid drafting.

I don't think it is the over crowding because there is long stretches without bikes or just one or two lone bikers. And Gulf Coast has wave starts and the drafting is just as bad. I believe the penalties need to be more severe, and DQ's shouuld happen after the 2nd offense. People will cheat if given the chance, we just need to reduce that chance or make the penaltys fit the crime.

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Grandpa Dave
Sponsors/ Main Sponsor WIFE!!!
RUDY PROJECT
http://www.e-rudy.com

Everyone who hates drafting:
Beach 2 Battleship
There were points when I never saw anyone else around me and I was right about the front to mid pack

I have raced IM Florida twice and have seen a lot of drafting. This year I was a volunteer and spectator. I have never seen anything like the packs that were out there. At one point at the turn to the "out and back" a pack of at least 75 went by and there were 2 motorcycles with officials right at the corner. They did nothing. Even the photographers were yelling at them to break it apart.
I have many pictures that include some of the Pro's who were drafting. Lots of bibs #'s visible.
Funniest thing I saw was one group we were driving by when my son who was wearing a volunteer shirt, leaned out the window and took some pictures. One guy who saw us taking pictures dropped his head, yelled "Oh F***", sat up, hit the brakes and stopped right there on the side of the road.

They run this exact order at SEVERAL of the 70.3 events. Boise 70.3 has this exact order last year. As a 40-44 yeard old woman, in the first wave, it is no more dangerous than a mass start with 2500 people! And a crap ton less drafting. As a just sub 3 hour rider, I got passed by only the fastest older men, and few of the 30-39s guys and some very fast younger women. Most of the 25 guys never caught me until the very end of the bike or during the run.

people don't suck because they expect others to obey the rules. Drafting happens in every race, the people who need to draft are weak both mentally and physically.

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Richard Nixon, Fit2Tri Multisport Inc.
Fit2Tri,
rich@fit2tri.com
Discount code, slowtwithch

Once again volunteer to be a ref, I was at that corner and was using the bathroom (yes we have to stop ocassionally) and if I listened to everyone who yelled they are drafting I would have been a mental wreck, the ones that crack me up are the ones you pull up on that you just watched drafting say get him he is drafting. The out and back was pretty scary on the motorcycle so it is not a easy place for us to catch riders on, I'm responsible as the driver for my passangers safety. And as I stated earlier, as soon as we pull up they start breaking up and we have to catch them in the act, they may be first time IMers but they know what they are doing, or they are veterans of the race and have played the referee dance before. We can only do so much the rest is up to the integrity of the competitors.

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Grandpa Dave
Sponsors/ Main Sponsor WIFE!!!
RUDY PROJECT
http://www.e-rudy.com

Integrity: Doing the right thing when no one is watching

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Grandpa Dave
Sponsors/ Main Sponsor WIFE!!!
RUDY PROJECT
http://www.e-rudy.com

I have to say that I was more impressed with the level of officiating this year. In the 1st 10 miles, I saw 2 guys get nailed that were blatantly drafting and worse, screwing up the tempo of those of us who weren't. Also, around mile 50 there was a waiting line to get checked into a penalty tent which was hilarious. What wan't so hilarious was having those same folks whisk by me about an hour later en masse as I was pulling the tendons out of my legs trying to negotiate the headwind.

BTW - anyone want to comment about the cheating twins? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

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lulu

nothing focuses the mind like a death sentence

I can't comment other than when a 45 year old WOMAN rides a 5:02, something is UP. That's faster than even, Bree Wee, a good pro rider and several of the other female pros.

Yesterday I registered for IM Florida 2009. What do you suppose a guy has to swim/bike in order to stay clear (in front of) all of this drafting? I really don't want to get caught up in the mess. Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer. It'll help me with goal setting.

I guess that I should say THANKS. I had a PR because I stayed out of the way of the peloton. This enabled me to come into T2 relaxed and fresh.

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Eric Doehrman
E3 Multisport

You can ride 4:15, right?

There are some races that, unless you're in front, you'll never be "clear" of the drafting. However, you can always let the packs go by. It's frustrating, but it's your choice to ride clean or not.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

How about reversing the bike course for IMC - that ought to stretch things out....

to get the tattoo of course.

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"thoughts become things, choose the good ones"