You may be onto something, Dev. I'm wondering if it'll help at Clearwater next week as that's what they're trying out:

6:45 - Pro
6:55 - F45+
7:00 - M60+
7:05 - M50-59
7:10 - M30-34 (A-K)
7:15 - M30-34 (L-Z)
7:20 - F30-34
7:25 - M35-39 (A-L)
7:30 - M35-39 (M-Z)
7:35 - F35-39
7:40 - M40-44 (A-K)
7:45 - M40-44 (L-Z)
7:50 - F18-29, F40-44
7:55 - M45-49
8:00 - M18-29

       
How many waves are you going to do? Look at Disney, they have something like 15 waves and PLENTY of drafting still occurres.[/reply] but isn't Disney the land of make believe?

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Run like you stole something
Formerly Fueled by ZYM

I want to ask if anybody did the B2B iron distance course yesterday. It had a mass start but limited participants to 500. Wonder if drafting was much of a problem.

I did the half; it had 4 waves and I was pretty lonely on the bike.

now there is a reason to learn to pee on the bike :-)

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cat
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As always the drafting communtiy sucks at IMFL. Last year was bad also especially the women who ride in packs with strong guys.

Every IM has this problem including international races.Go to Brasil if you want to see drafting.

These people cant run and flat out cheat so there day is coming.Its all about the karma

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the will to win is greater than the skill to win

Don't bastardize your post with the "I race for my own reasons" b.s. Everyone who ever starts these posts, and it happens every year, says the same thing. I really don't give a *&%$ about how bad some guy who cheated whooped my ass. As such, I don't complain about drafting. If the peletons hurt your feelings just admit it.

Well unfortunately NA sports has the monopoly on kona spots if thats your goal(it's mine) unless you go overseas.. Of course theres louisville which has less entrants and due to the time trial start and hills less problems with drafting but other than that until WTC does something about NA sports mega ironman mentality(it's all about money anyway so sort of wasted point I guess)
then not much can do about it. Heck every race at the carbo dinner they brag about how many people are in the race.......

hope more races like louisville come around.... OR take two races each year make each a championship like race for kona qualification(move most of the slots to those two races
then limit the others to 25 or so) then limit particpants to qualifying for each throw in some local spots but keep the overall numbers to say 1800 or so or do a citizen wave.

Maybe we can find some drug company or infomercial rep to show ironman competition causes cancer or something then they won't fill up as fast and things will get back to the way they were in the 90's when you could sign up couple of months before the race

Thats sort of what gulf coast does and its worked on occasion took them a few years of working out the spread and charlie out there enforcing the law.
gulf coast triathlon used to be a major draft festl It still has its share but lots better than it was 10 years ago.

Diesel:

What was the additional "drop back" rule? I musta missed that.

Great news to hear about the spread at Clearwater. I will be keenly watching this year. I have given up my CW spot twice in 2 years at St. Croix, because I did not want to go to a draftfest (vote with your wallet). Next year, I might try to qualify if things work out a bit clean.

But yes, spread the arrival rate over a wider period of time and spread out the M25-44 so they are not racing each other in clumps and things should get much better. Also if there is a draft train, it is all guys in your age group, so you can then chose to let them go hoping they call get caught. At least the race from other age groups is not affecting your race.

Dev

I did not participate in the race, but i know several individuals who did.

I find it interesting that several people I know set PR's and had faster bike splits at this IM distance than they did at 1/2 IM distances.

I don't know if drafting accounted for their dramatic improvement, but how else could they have gotten that much faster in just a few weeks?

It's nothing new...same rule. It's just that the athlete manual included the lil blurb in their shortened section on race rules.
It says: (In caps, I'm not shouting)

OVERTAKEN - AFTER BEING PASSED, FAILING TO DROP BACK FOUR BIKE LENGTHS BEFORE REPASSING.

This simply does not happen. When a lil group forms and folks are jocking for position...there may or may not be actual drafting, but 100% of the time there is a failure to drop back. This is when the drafting occurs. It's a cause/effect situation.

People don't catch someone and then draft them....they will get passed and stick along for the ride or immediately pass them again.

The athlete's meeting needs a "voice of the age grouper" that doesn't technically talk about the rules, but rather makes a lil skit (with videos) of things people do during a race that pissed people off. Like the Huddle/Frey video, but with useful information. Or..have Huddle and Frey make it...doesn't matter. It would be rather entertaining...yet serious.

STOPPPPPPP THE DRAFTING

I'll volunteer for the video at IMLP.

This is my biggest pet peeve. I have no issue with guys ridiing back at 4-5 bike lengths, but it is when they don't drop back that the packs form....and don't give me this, "What am I supposed to do, drop back 200 bike lengths when a train of 50 guys riding 4 apart passes?" The answer is YES, please drop back, sit up and take in some nutrition. IM is a long day and your run split will thank you! I think on the way to Osoyoos at IMC, I let >100 riders go buy and passed all but 10 or so by the time we cleared Richter pass. Regardless I am never doing IMC again and won't do florida until they institute wave starts at each location.

Dev

I dunno...perhaps I (we) should take matters into our own hands and post a video on YouTube. Might be rather funny!

.........didn't / hasn't worked in Lake Placid!

People who want to cheat will regardless of course - yes it's tougher on some courses but the a$$ wipes still
find a way!...............I'm off to IM Louisville next year....maybe the TT start will help!

Well, since they weren't listed I'll put myself out there for retribution and humiliation...I got a drafting penalty at IMFL 2008. First one ever, and it was a stupid mistake on my part. However, the time in the tent let me see a different side of the race and I don't think I'll be back for this one anytime soon even though I really like this race.

I was out of the swim in 57:40 so things were pretty spread out in the beginning of the ride. I passed a few people on Front Beach road and then as we turned north to head out of town a guy comes rolling by me standing on his pedals to get in front of me...then proceeds to sit up and grab a snack from his back pocket. I sat up and stopped pedaling waiting for him to start going again and move off, but he was struggling grabbing his snack and instead of hitting the breaks like I should have I just glided there slowly moving back from his wheel. I looked to my left to see a draft marshall and a few seconds later she shouted my number and flashed the red card. I was disappointed because I didn't feel like I was trying to gain any advantage, but I made the mistake of not hitting the brakes to drop back and re-pass. the marshall was absolutely right in giving me the penalty according to the rules.

With the 4 minutes I got to see what a lot of people who exit the water around 1hr talk about. At about mile 30 or so a pack of 50+ rolled by me, as I dropped back 1 by 1 as I was passed. Not long after I got caught by a pack of 30 or so and experienced the same thing. As I got rolled out the back I just put up my hands and when I looked over there was another draft marshall. I said to her "this is getting ugly"...she replied "I know, but don't worry we'll handle it" and proceeded to write people up. One thing I noticed is with a pack that large its impossible for 1 marshall to catch everyone. They have to pick out 1 person at a time and count the time they are in the draft zone. Out of 30 or so people, the marshall I think gave out 3 penalties in that stretch and the pack spread out a bit only to reform as soon as they were gone. Another thing I witnessed was people who were riding in the packs SCREAMING at the refs when they got carded. I watched a guy get a red card, flip off the marshall, then hammer to catch up to the motorbike as it was riding next to the pack and yelling at the marshall. It was really sad. I know its competitive at the front and everyone works hard with a goal/dream of getting to Kona, but if you are riding along with 30+ people you are making the decision to be there and should be willing to pay the price.

I had a great race, so I'm happy with that but realize that if I want to qualify for Kona someday at IMFL I either have to put in the work to get to a 4:50ish bike split on my own or ride with the packs. Its a bit disheartening and a reason I didn't sign up again for next year. It would be a shame to work so hard like a lot of people did and get robbed for a slot by a guy doing a group ride.

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Fit2Tri Multisport
http://www.fit2tri.com

The reason you will not see any penalties on the results, drafting was a four minute stand down penalty and everything else was a stop and sign in and go.
Having to stand down in the tent for four minutes broke up some of the packs.

Thanks Mark. Say 10 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys and then go buy a HED disc. You are absolved. Go now and race in peace.

Any other sinners want to confess?

i came late to this thread, and don't see where this reply got the comedic honor it deserves.

ha!

Whats funny is that I was reading a race report on BT, and saw one guy's race report saying "that a massive peloton went by and I got caught up in it, so I rode it a bit"

They dont mind telling the world they cheat

Tell me again why people clamor to get into these IM races?

First you have to register a year in advance, often on site so there's double the travel expenses.
The race fee is much higher than other iron distance events.
You have to swim with ~2000 or so flailing people.
The massive draft fests on the bike
No guarantee the guy at the end will even annouce you're an Ironman, let alone get your name correct.

Sure sounds like a lot of time, effort, and money go into something that seems to make many people irritated. What's the attraction again?

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

It's called KONA! been there?

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In Reply To:

Tell me again why people clamor to get into these IM races?

First you have to register a year in advance, often on site so there's double the travel expenses.
The race fee is much higher than other iron distance events.
You have to swim with ~2000 or so flailing people.
The massive draft fests on the bike
No guarantee the guy at the end will even annouce you're an Ironman, let alone get your name correct.

Sure sounds like a lot of time, effort, and money go into something that seems to make many people irritated. What's the attraction again?

"It's called KONA! been there? "


Next thing you're going to say is that every single person who raced had a chance at a Kona spot. Isn't it really all about the marketing hype for many of these people?

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

Q: It's called KONA! been there?
A: Been there, done it, got the t-shirt...

Q: Was it worth it?
A: Not really!

There are many many more interesting races out there. Moreover, there are many many more interesting and challenging things out there for one to do. It all depends on what you define a challenge to be? A flat ironman can be really hard but only if it's a proper non drafting event. 112 miles on your aerobars with you nose to the wind is tough, but you'll only get the genuine challenge if you do a small event with less than 700 competitors. Anything bigger and you'll be drafting the bike.. we all know that.

SteveMc