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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective

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pokey

Nov 18, 09 19:50

Post #1 of 78 (4144 views)

This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective	Can't Post

There was some talk a while ago about 3 hours being a very high quality marathon time, well check this out.

" Last year, if you ran 73:00min, you didn't finish in the top 500 for the half marathon"

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/...y-half-marathon.html

Spiridon Louis

Nov 18, 09 20:37

Post #2 of 78 (4036 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [pokey] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but in my mortal book, if you can run a sub 3 marathon you are a stud. Period.

SucabStunna

Nov 18, 09 23:34

Post #3 of 78 (3863 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [pokey] [In reply to]	Can't Post

That race has pretty much every fast Japanese runner in a single flat race.
If they had a race like that in America, then number of sub-73min finishers would be over double that

monty

Nov 19, 09 6:58

Post #4 of 78 (3563 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [SucabStunna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If they had a race like that in America,\\

They do, it's called Clearwater...Oops wrong sport..

1;13 is a very fast 1/2 marathon, regardless of the fast course. I'm not so sure you could find 500 Americans anywhere to run that fast on the same day and course. In the 1970's and 80's for sure, but not too sure about today. Maybe give away a free ipod or blackberry for everyone that breaks it, but more likley a car or something bigger....

kmill23

Nov 19, 09 7:05

Post #5 of 78 (3523 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [pokey] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Doesn't change my opinion of a 3-hr marathon. I still think it's fast and the folks that run that are impressive.

furiousferret

Nov 19, 09 7:12

Post #6 of 78 (3478 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [SucabStunna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

That race has pretty much every fast Japanese runner in a single flat race.
If they had a race like that in America, then number of sub-73min finishers would be over double that

There's a half (or was) in SoCal were its all downhill. I'm not sure if you can count it as an official race though, since its not a loop.

pokey

Nov 19, 09 8:03

Post #7 of 78 (3332 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [kmill23] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Doesn't change my opinion of a 3-hr marathon. I still think it's fast and the folks that run that are impressive.

I was trying to put a 3hr marathon in perspective. I agree it is fast to the average person, but really a 3hr marathon is quite slow in the bigger picture and is a possibility for most men under 40 if their prepared to do the work.

(This post was edited by pokey on Nov 19, 09 8:05)

Fleck

Nov 19, 09 8:14

Post #8 of 78 (3275 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Spiridon Louis] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but in my mortal book, if you can run a sub 3 marathon you are a stud. Period.

Maybe.

What's happened in distance running is interesting. The numbers of the absolute best in the big races( sub 2:20 have gone up) The numbers of people running over three hours has gone through the roof! Where there has been a massive decline over the past 20 - 30 years, strangely is in the 2:30 - 3:00 hr range. If you go to any of the big marathons these days, and you run say, 2:38, which is exactly 6 min/mile pace, you will be running in a sort of no-man's land and may run long stretches of the race completely on your own.

Sub 3:00 is looked upon by many as very "fast" time, but that is 7:00 min/mile pace. That is the training pace for most really serious runners - there default, I can run all day at this pace kind of pace.

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

theruncounts

Nov 19, 09 8:35

Post #9 of 78 (3196 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [pokey] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quite silly to even begin to compare a half-marathon to a full marathom...

pokey

Nov 19, 09 8:49

Post #10 of 78 (3136 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [theruncounts] [In reply to]	Can't Post

1:13 1/2 = 2:33 full marathon, I would be willing to bet that the majority of those runners could run under 2:40 with a few extra longer runs.

So put another way 500 runners in one race could run under 2:40, that's a long way from 3 hr's. 7 min miles prob represents a slower pace then the majority of these runners do on their easy runs.

Like Fleck said let's try to raise the bar people, other wise in 10 years we will be saying 3:30 marathoners are Studs.

(This post was edited by pokey on Nov 19, 09 8:51)

jsquared

Nov 19, 09 8:49

Post #11 of 78 (3136 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

What's happened in distance running is interesting. The numbers of the absolute best in the big races( sub 2:20 have gone up) The numbers of people running over three hours has gone through the roof! Where there has been a massive decline over the past 20 - 30 years, strangely is in the 2:30 - 3:00 hr range. If you go to any of the big marathons these days, and you run say, 2:38, which is exactly 6 min/mile pace, you will be running in a sort of no-man's land and may run long stretches of the race completely on your own.

Sub 3:00 is looked upon by many as very "fast" time, but that is 7:00 min/mile pace. That is the training pace for most really serious runners - there default, I can run all day at this pace kind of pace.

That's because a lot of the serious, but not great athletes that used to be pure runners have been siphoned off to sports like triathlon. As multisporters they're not quite as fast as they would be if they spent all that time running.

JJ
A Cake???
I don't even have the ingredients for the batter right now!

Fleck

Nov 19, 09 8:56

Post #12 of 78 (3099 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [pokey] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Like Fleck said let's try to raise the bar people, other wise in 10 years we will be saying 3:30 marathoners are Studs.

I am not that optimistic. I would like to be, but I am not. Problem is, many are mis-guided in their approach to marathon running - triathletes and stand-alone runners alike. Many just go straight to the marathon. They skip right over 5k/10k prep and just do the marathon. If their true goal was to run the best marathon they could ever possibly do, they would take a year and first try and maximize their performance at the 5K/10K then move onto the marathon.

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

Cassie

Nov 19, 09 10:15

Post #13 of 78 (2870 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Yes, absolutely! I have noticed this with so many people in my running/tri groups. They do one 5k, then sign up for the marathon clinic. They do one try-a-tri, then sign up for Ironman. Then they end up getting injured and sick in their training because they don't have the fitness base. Then they do their big race regardless and have to drag themselves over the finish line. Then they definitely don't want to hear anything from old school farts like me who gently suggest it might be a good idea to work on the base and gaining speed for shorter races before toeing the line in a longer race again. It's all about being able to say they have "done" a marathon or an IM, then quite often, they revert to couch potatoes because they never learned to love the experience of the training. It's not about the journey for them, it's about the destination.

But I'm an old-school runner coached by an old-school runner, so who wants to listen to me anyway :( Blah, blah, blah, there she goes again.....

napapjd

Nov 19, 09 10:16

Post #14 of 78 (2868 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Sub 3:00 is looked upon by many as very "fast" time, but that is 7:00 min/mile pace

This does not change the excellent point you are making and definitely qualifies as nitpicking. For that I apologize. But sub 3:00 is 6:52/mile (well, 6:51.8). As I said, doesn't change your point. But let me tell you, 8 seconds/mile makes a difference when you are 47 years old, your knees and hips and back are getting creaky and you are pushing it to the limit while chasing a goal that sometimes seems beyond reach!

Pete
Portland, OR

(This post was edited by napapjd on Nov 19, 09 13:17)

kmill23

Nov 19, 09 10:18

Post #15 of 78 (2857 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

I bow to you sir, if you can run all day at 7 min/mile. :-)

Maybe you should make a trek across the Sahara?

Cassie

Nov 19, 09 10:22

Post #16 of 78 (2841 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [kmill23] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Sub 3:00 is looked upon by many as very "fast" time, but that is 7:00 min/mile pace. That is the training pace for most really serious runners - there default, I can run all day at this pace kind of pace.

I bow to you sir, if you can run all day at 7 min/mile. :-)

Maybe you should make a trek across the Sahara?

I think he was referring to "the most serious runners", not himself (although I could be wrong as I don't know how fast Fleck trains at!).

kmill23

Nov 19, 09 10:36

Post #17 of 78 (2789 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Cassie] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

I bow to you sir, if you can run all day at 7 min/mile. :-)

Maybe you should make a trek across the Sahara?

I think he was referring to "the most serious runners", not himself (although I could be wrong as I don't know how fast Fleck trains at!).

Ah, gotcha. I read the comma as a period, I guess. My humor was wasted. Damnit.

Juanmoretime

Nov 19, 09 11:21

Post #18 of 78 (2658 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [kmill23] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Running sub 3 is not a big deal. All 8 of my marathon's were sub 3. My best was 2:45:21 with the next 2:45:42. I ran the last at age 42.

kmill23

Nov 19, 09 11:52

Post #19 of 78 (2561 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Juanmoretime] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Millco

Nov 19, 09 11:59

Post #20 of 78 (2537 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Sub 3:00 is looked upon by many as very "fast" time, but that is 7:00 min/mile pace. That is the training pace for most really serious runners - there default, I can run all day at this pace kind of pace. "

You are awesome!

Cassie

Nov 19, 09 12:21

Post #21 of 78 (2445 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [kmill23] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Ah, gotcha. I read the comma as a period, I guess. My humor was wasted. Damnit.

I think he also meant to say "their default pace" as opposed to "there, default..."

Ok, I'll shut up now.... talk about nitpicky, I am.

apzuelke

Nov 19, 09 12:25

Post #22 of 78 (2426 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [kmill23] [In reply to]	Can't Post

mmmmm....I like cookies:)
http://www.loopd.com/...pzuelke/Results.aspx

BrianLizard

Nov 19, 09 12:33

Post #23 of 78 (2395 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [apzuelke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Running 7:00/mile is easy. Running 6 min miles isn't that tough... The speed is secondary to the distance. Respect the marathon. The last 10k is harder than the first 20.

95%+ Of marathoners can't run a negative split.
____________________________________________
I only believe what I read when I agree with it...

imsparticus

Nov 19, 09 12:59

Post #24 of 78 (2302 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [Juanmoretime] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In response to "Running sub 3 is not a big deal. All 8 of my marathon's were sub 3. My best was 2:45:21 with the next 2:45:42. I ran the last at age 42."

You are obviously a phenomenal runner. I suspect you have a "runner's build" which together with great running genetics and hard work have allowed you to excel at running the marathon. But it doesn't change the fact that for most folks running a sub 3 is a "big deal." I weigh 180 and for me bench pressing 315 lbs is no big deal. I suspect it might be for most people who can run a sub 3 marathon.

Andrew V

Nov 19, 09 13:03

Post #25 of 78 (2288 views)

Re: This will put a 3 hours marathon in perspective [BrianLizard] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

95%+ Of marathoners can't run a negative split.

Can't, or haven't put the training time in to be able to? Big difference.

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