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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [SeasonsChange] [ In reply to ]
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I might have agreed with you 20 years ago - now as a masters triathlete - I find that running tears me up a bit more than it used to. So going sub 4:30 for a half or 2:00 for an Olympic is a bit easier for me because i can train to get extremely strong without breaking down so much.

In my experience - cross comparing times in IM or HIM or OLY are pointless - every course is so different and you cant compare a 4:30 at wildflower with a 4:30 at Florida 70.3 - they are just different beasts. Even year to year its difficult on the same courses. Fleck mentions that he came in 200th place in IMH in 1993 in 9:45 -well in 1991 I was 96th OA in 9:46 and in 1994 9:56 was 160th, etc. So many variables make it difficult to compare year to year, course to course.

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [Onetimepad] [ In reply to ]
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I've run 2:40 as the best of some 60-odd marathons. Right now with marathon training I'd expect to run in the 3-3:10 range. In tri I have no weaknesses (but no strengths either), typically place much the same in all 3 legs - for example at Nationals, 21st AG, 21/24/21 in AG for s/b/r, 272/279/340 in OA.
On a reasonable Oly course could probably do 2:15. HIM 4:50 on a good day. IM about 16:59..

So based on my experience, I think monty's numbers are good for Oly and HIM, 2:12 and 4:45 sounds about right.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [dre125038] [ In reply to ]
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Boston 07', bad race to compare your "actual" fitness level to :)

___________________________________
Mizuno Running - http://www.mizunousa.com/running
Last edited by: Rycase: Oct 28, 09 13:37
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [dre125038] [ In reply to ]
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I think most of you guys aren't thinking long term (a problem in general with society today). Yes, doing lots of mileage is important, but it's the YEARS of doing mileage that is important. Too many people today start running and want to do a marathon in a year or two, which is fine if you want to finish, but if you have a time goal, it is a different story.

While I think some people have natural "gifts" for running, I think many times this is a weak excuse. Your body knows how to run, you just have to make it remember.

I would say that if you run at least 30-40 miles a week for 3 years (you know, making running part of you life), it would have more benefit that doing a marathon build peaking at 70 miles/ week.

I don't know. Since I ventured into a marathon this year, my perspective has been changing a lot. When you hang out and train with people who run a lot, and many who run pretty decent times, it is hard to understand how someone just can't do it?

And I never did long course triathlon (but was probably a 1:55 guy for Olympic, ITU has such varying races (but usually have pretty balanced athletes), with a best of 32 flat off the bike). I did my first marathon, and ran a 2:36. (hoping to go sub 2:30 at Boston next year).
Does that help your equation? Probably not.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [trimess] [ In reply to ]
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+1 to everything there.

but you probably know how many people can run sub 3. theres not a ton of people going sub 10.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [SeasonsChange] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, I guess I am the wrong person to ask, as almost everyone I know could do either, pretty handily.

There is a much higher pool of athletes that run marathons vs. doing triathlons. Just food for thought.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [SeasonsChange] [ In reply to ]
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I'm heading into my first Ironman (IMAZ) and friends/family keep asking what my goal time is. I was thinking that by this point with several months of training behind me, I would have more of an idea. I have a pretty good idea of what my swim and bike times will be but have no idea what to target/predict for the marathon! So I read this thread with interest! I read through it an didn't notice too many (or any?) females chime in. I'm assuming that the times thrown out there are for male athletes? I've read about various formulas for predicting overall times, individual (swim/bike/run) prediction times etc but it seems like there's no one perfect formula. I'm a decent runner but the IM run is scaring the heck out of me for some reason!
Hoping I have a better understanding of it all after I get the first one under my belt! :-)
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [runninginaz] [ In reply to ]
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If you know your v.dot, AND you pace and execute properly on the swim and bike, then here is your answer (at least in terms of ideal/goal run splits):





It has worked well for me - my V.dot was ~56+ in '06, and I ran 3:24 and 3:29 at LP and Kona.
In '08 my V.dot was ~58, and I ran 1:24 off the bike at Demi Esprit.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [Onetimepad] [ In reply to ]
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Or how about the marathon equiv. of a sub 9 IM? Flat, fast course.

C Ryan Robinson
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
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sub 3 isnt hard at all. the only people who are saying its tough havent run 70+ miles a week for a few weeks.

One of my favorite exchanges was from a training partner of mine to a guy in our local running group.

John: "Man, you looked like you got run over by a truck as you struggled to finish that marathon. I guess you blew up pretty bad, huh."
Marc: "Yeah. You know, I never realized how much one could walk in a marathon and still break 3 hours."
John: "Hey!! I've never broken 3 hours!"


Marc was probably in 2:35 shape but went out at about 2:20 pace.

Wow and I thought I was the only one who lived that.

I think 3 hour is some work for a good runner but not much. We need some gifted triathletes to weigh in with their times which they feel took some good effort but not great for a comparison.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [skavoovie] [ In reply to ]
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I think there are a lot of people that overestimate how hard a sub 3 is..
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [smilford] [ In reply to ]
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"I think there are a lot of people that overestimate how hard a sub 3 is."

Sometimes it come down to talent and natural ability. There are some guys who can run a 34-min. 10K on a few miles a week. For those guys, a sub-3, even with some terrible final miles, is no problem, even with modest training. For those who really have to train 40mpw to break 40 minutes, its a whole different story ...
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [TBinMT] [ In reply to ]
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Well when I see posts like 4:20 half is = to a sub 3, that's crazy to me. Or a 2:00 Oly is = to a 2:55, that's almost stupid.

Oh well...
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [TBinMT] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"I think there are a lot of people that overestimate how hard a sub 3 is."

Sometimes it come down to talent and natural ability. There are some guys who can run a 34-min. 10K on a few miles a week. For those guys, a sub-3, even with some terrible final miles, is no problem, even with modest training. For those who really have to train 40mpw to break 40 minutes, its a whole different story ...

Nobody seems to realize that those guys doing the 34 min 10k have been running regularly for years, and do most of their runs at a high intensity. The guy training 40 mph to break 40 - how hard are his runs, and how long has he been sustaining 40mph. Also, how athletic are they overall?

You can't get off the couch one day, train for 6 months (even good training), then expect to be on par with someone spending similar effort for 3+ years.

People ask me how I became a FOP triathlete right when I started the sport, and the answer is simple. I certainly don't have some amazing gift that makes me a great athlete (my college swimming teammates can certainly attest to that), it's just that I've never taken more than a month off from working out my whole life - and even those months 'off' are doing more activity than 90% of people. Also, I've seen the bike rides that some people call 'workouts' - of the small percentage of the population that actually works out a significant amount, there's an equally small percentage within that group that actually train hard - bike workouts like 2x20@FTP, 90min @ 90% FTP, etc.

You don't decide one day that you want to be fast, then get it that season. It's a lifestyle choice, and anyone can adopt it. Genetics don't come into play until you're reaching the pro level.
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [Onetimepad] [ In reply to ]
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My experiences from this past summer (take them for what they are):

RACE: TIME Course Description: Weather:
7/12/09 IM Switzerland: 10:24 50-70 Deg F. Slight Rain, Not much wind
8/9/09 Sylanvania, OH OLY 2:09 Completly Flat 90 deg F w/ high humidity. Very windy
9/12/09 Tawas Half-Iron 4:43 some rolling hills on the bike. Flat Run. Start: 35 Deg Finish:60 Deg F. Slight wind
10/12/09 Detroit Marathon 2:57 FLAT Start: 28 Deg F Finish: 40's? (comfortable)

Notes:

I had stomach issues develop on the bike in Switzerland that made me reevaluate my goals (slow down) due to not being able to keep anything down
My training significantly dropped off after my IM.
Reviewing my logs:
I logged 75 miles (total) on the bike after the IM and before the OLY, and never biked more than 150 miles per week the rest of the year .
I never logged more than 35 miles per week running in 2009, and consistenly logged just over 100 miles per month in 2009. Swimming is my weak link, but am working on it.
My goal for the marathon was to run even splits, and finish in under 3-hrs, and only run hard enough to do so. I accomplished both.
The month before the marathon, I stopped biking all together, and swam ~ 5,000 yds.


My PB for the distances (accomplished in different years begining in 1998): IM: 10:24, Half: 4:26, OLY: 2:04, Marathon: 2:47
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Re: Sub 3 hr marathon equivalent in IM or HIM [gonzobob] [ In reply to ]
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I've gone sub 3 in 5 out of my last 6 marathons but never by more than 5 minutes and went 4:43 a couple years ago at Pigman. My swim sucks 35 minutes so I'd say sub 4:40 would be more accurate in most cases. I think sub 4:30 at Pigman would be far more difficult than a sub 3 marathon. I do weigh 135 lbs someone weighing 175 lbs would likely feel differently about which is more difficult.
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