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Schleck circling the drain...
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J\V
Oct 3, 08 11:56
Post #1 of 44 (2682 views)
Schleck circling the drain...
Can't Post
http://velonews.com/...mits-fuentes-payment
Here we go again...
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Rokko
Oct 3, 08 12:08
Post #2 of 44 (2616 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [J\V]
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Makes you wonder... why would you pay a doping doctor if you had no intention of being a customer?
And for the Americans.... that's about $9,700 US dollars in today's exchange rate.
pito00
Oct 3, 08 14:28
Post #3 of 44 (2341 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [Rokko]
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For triathletes, that's 1600 burritos!
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On my way up!
"Drugs are for medical conditions. Being an athlete is not a medical condition."
-Dr. W, WADA
Bux
Oct 3, 08 16:05
Post #4 of 44 (2212 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [J\V]
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very sad but 2 years in the past when i suspect many, many more were still involved with PED/doping, hopefully cycling can look forward to a cleaner future......thanks for the post
Hope is not an effective strategy......
BIGZACH
Oct 3, 08 16:18
Post #5 of 44 (2179 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [J\V]
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I think we are really close to having a clean sport. I think its why Lance chose to come back, he can race clean now, and have a realistic shot at winning without doping. Its a way for him to put the doubters to rest...by winning clean. Although I am not saying the "doubters" are wrong, I mean how could anyone have won without doping from the early 90's until now?
spot
Oct 3, 08 16:28
Post #6 of 44 (2147 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [J\V]
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Team CSC-Saxo Bank star Fränk Schleck has admitted he paid nearly 7000 euros to alleged blood-doping guru Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes in 2006, but denied he doped or ever met Fuentes.
Yeah, I often pay docs $10 grand that I've never met, nor apparently intend to. That's a believable story. And maybe there's an even better reason his little brother Andy looked like he was having a walk in the park on the Alpe d'Huez, too.
Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
ancientdude
Oct 3, 08 17:13
Post #7 of 44 (2071 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [BIGZACH]
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Lance will still dope to win the tour - reinjecting your own blood is almost undetectable.
Remember that Lance's baseline crit is 41. If he trains at altitude, he will be lucky to get it up to 45/46. I guarantee you that when the tests for his hematocrit are released to the public, we will see 47-48-49 and that is almost impossible without some sort of "aid" (especially considering his baseline crit).
Once he has established a basline crit of 47-49, he no longer has to remain at altitude to keep it up there - he will use whatever "aid". It's all games.
jackmott
Oct 3, 08 17:17
Post #8 of 44 (2062 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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just curious, how do we know his baseline crit?
ancientdude
Oct 3, 08 17:19
Post #9 of 44 (2053 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [jackmott]
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We don't know what it will be currently, until it is released to the public.
But numerous sources have shown that Armstrong's baseline is around 41 (which is where Rasmussen's was/is and a number of other top athletes). Most endurance athletes are around 41-43.
onemoretime
Oct 3, 08 17:35
Post #10 of 44 (2021 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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wording is quite senstive here. it says it is a 'Fuentes owned company'. What this company does I don't know, it could be something else, but if it indeed his doping operation, then Franck is in a spot of trouble. Lets hope for his sake it's not the doping operation.
jackmott
Oct 3, 08 17:53
Post #11 of 44 (1981 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [onemoretime]
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no, he isn't in a spot of trouble
he is in a "spot of bother" and may need to "open up his suitcase of courage"
mlinenb
Oct 3, 08 18:15
Post #12 of 44 (1942 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [Bux]
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very sad but 2 years in the past when i suspect many, many more were still involved with PED/doping, hopefully cycling can look forward to a cleaner future......thanks for the post
if you are 'looking' for a clean cycling sport- just look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...ing_cases_in_cycling
there are so many doping cases (even with so many riders taking undetectable stuff)- the history of dope and cyling is intertwined from day 1...
Mark Linenberg
rruff
Oct 3, 08 18:16
Post #13 of 44 (1938 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [BIGZACH]
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I think we are really close to having a clean sport.
Click the heels of your ruby red slippers and wish upon a star... etc.
devashish_paul
Oct 4, 08 13:08
Post #14 of 44 (1690 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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How do you know Lance's baseline and say most endurance athletes are 41-43....I live at sea level and I'm a 42 year old poser age grouper and my blood tests always come in in the high 40's. Even my 65 year old mother is in the mid 40's!!!
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Trirunner
Oct 4, 08 13:21
Post #15 of 44 (1666 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [devashish_paul]
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At least when the doping police comes knocking on your mom's door she can claim the packages were for her triathlete son!
mckenzie
Oct 4, 08 13:39
Post #16 of 44 (1636 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [devashish_paul]
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i don't know about lance's blood profile, but hematocrits in the low 40s are very common for endurance athletes. in theory, they should be lower for endurance athletes than the general population (due to an expansion of plasma volume in response to training).
granted, there is quite a range of variation, but i would not be surprised if lance's hct was 41.
mckenzie
ancientdude
Oct 4, 08 13:39
Post #17 of 44 (1636 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [devashish_paul]
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What do you mean by high 40's? If you mean 48-49, I find the accuracy of the testing highly doubtful.
It's been well documented on in many a book about Lance's baseline crit. Also, physiologically speaking most succesful endurance athletes have a baseline of 41-43 because when increased they get much more a performance gain/benefit, over someone whose baseline is 46 or 47.
Then again, hematocrit means little for some, as per this well known phenomenon: There are many tribes in the high Ande's (Peru, Colombia) that have villages at 10,000+ feet and the majority of the population has a crit in the low 50's (50-51) but the tribe as a whole is anemic.
Recovering at altitude is very difficult; I have tried to train hard at 2600M above sea level (Colombia) and even the boost in hematocrit is not enough to offset the fatigue that is incured at this height. The true benefits can only by maintaining a high 'crit at sea level, which is what Lance will do.
NateC
Oct 4, 08 15:49
Post #18 of 44 (1542 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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Recovering at altitude is very difficult; I have tried to train hard at 2600M above sea level (Colombia) and even the boost in hematocrit is not enough to offset the fatigue that is incured at this height.
That's kind of a big blanket statement to make with only unscentific anectdote as justification.
How long did you live at altitude? What was your training like to become acclimated? Where were you in your training cycle?
There are plenty of people who are able to train and recover well at altitude, even high altitude, who then use the benefit to their advantage at lower elevations. Your individual experience was probably bad because of one or many variables that were not taken care of correctly.
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namaste
Oct 4, 08 16:22
Post #19 of 44 (1494 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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Most endurance athletes are around 41-43.
Mine was 46 when I tested for it and I am nothing special. Lived at sea level my whole life.
What books claim Lances is 41?
Andrew
ancientdude
Oct 4, 08 16:33
Post #20 of 44 (1470 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [namaste]
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What I should have said is that most of the better endurance athletes are within this range.
Like you said, you are 46 and nothing special. There are many other physiological variables to consider.
ancientdude
Oct 4, 08 16:42
Post #21 of 44 (1455 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [NateC]
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I lived at altitude for six weeks and recovery was not great (not COMPARED to sea level). I was training with some of the best climbers in the world (cycling - not an overstatement) and had an eventual raise of 3 points on my hematocrit level. My training regime has very few misjudgments/oversights and I am pretty sure that most people would agree that the best recovery is at sea level with a very high hematocrit (which is what Lance will have).
Anyone who goes up to altitude for less than 3 weeks is wasting their time, as true adaptations only occur after this period. So someone who tells you that they are going to train at altitude for 10 days is actually wasting their time.
However, despite Lemond being a classless and ruthless individual he does have a point:
1. Lance should be regularly tested on his Vo2 Max and his Threshold power; if he wants to prove his raw natural talent.
2. They need to test Lance 10 minutes before each stage - something will be off!
namaste
Oct 4, 08 16:47
Post #22 of 44 (1448 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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So is your view that better athletes have lower levels? Just the opposite of what I was led to believe.
You did not answer the Lance question. What book states his level is 41%? If you are making claims lets have the sources of those claims.
Andrew
jackmott
Oct 4, 08 16:51
Post #23 of 44 (1438 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [namaste]
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Their training regimine increases plasma volume thus lowering their hermatocrit number.
If they sat at home and ate doritos they might be in the 50s
In Reply To
So is your view that better athletes have lower levels? Just the opposite of what I was led to believe.
You did not answer the Lance question. What book states his level is 41%? If you are making claims lets have the sources of those claims.
namaste
Oct 4, 08 16:56
Post #24 of 44 (1430 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [jackmott]
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Their training regimine increases plasma volume thus lowering their hermatocrit number.
If they sat at home and ate doritos they might be in the 50s
Thanks for explaining Jack, that makes sense.
Andrew
Tri_yoda
Oct 4, 08 18:08
Post #25 of 44 (1378 views)
Re: Schleck circling the drain... [ancientdude]
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We don't know what it will be currently, until it is released to the public.
But numerous sources have shown that Armstrong's baseline is around 41 (which is where Rasmussen's was/is and a number of other top athletes). Most endurance athletes are around 41-43.
My crit is 48 or 49 and I don't dope, I live at sea level and I'm not even good. I think many endurance athletes have crits in the 48 to 49 range. I do not beleive Armstrong's baseline would be anywhere near 41.
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