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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Saw the new Zipp 404 today

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JohnA

Dec 27, 04 19:47

Post #1 of 30 (1254 views)

Saw the new Zipp 404 today	Can't Post

Really interesting rim. The dimples are pretty cool, very precise. The logos are baked in to the rim, but I think they are still working out the kinks on this process since they really didn't look that clean - there were slight imperfections. Since they are not removable, I hope they get this process sorted out sooner rather than later.

All and all, you have to appreciate the work that went in to implementing those dimples - I imagine that would be tough to pull off in carbon.

Monk

Dec 27, 04 19:51

Post #2 of 30 (1249 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pictures?

GregX

Dec 27, 04 20:03

Post #3 of 30 (1237 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Logos baked into the rims? I think that is going to be a mistake.

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freestyle

Dec 28, 04 4:35

Post #4 of 30 (1109 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Greg/ORD] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Why? Because people won't be able to remove the stickers?

You bought a product because you think it's good. Why not allow other people see that? What's the point with the 'no free advertising' and taking off logos?

Plus the Zipp logos are cool.

bunnyman

Dec 28, 04 4:46

Post #5 of 30 (1094 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

What aboot the people who are sponsored riders not complying with their contracts? I would hope they had a "no logo" option for those who wanted the Zipp wheel without logos, even if it took a pro racing license to get them.

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gtingley

Dec 28, 04 5:22

Post #6 of 30 (1059 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [freestyle] [In reply to]	Can't Post

pic:

- Gary

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freestyle

Dec 28, 04 5:27

Post #7 of 30 (1052 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Gary Tingley] [In reply to]	Can't Post

what happened to the better, old, 04 logos?

desert dude

Dec 28, 04 7:31

Post #8 of 30 (963 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [freestyle] [In reply to]	Can't Post

yikes... Do I really need 8 logos, if you count the 404 logo, per wheel. Logos are becoming too much. I think it's getting pretty tasteless and would turn my yes buying decision into a no buying decision unless the products are very much superior to anything on the market. Unless of course I'm sponsored then logo everything and often.

Brian Stover
http://accelerate3.com

(This post was edited by desert dude on Dec 28, 04 7:38)

QuintanaRooster

Dec 28, 04 7:36

Post #9 of 30 (956 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just don't see why the $350 price increase. Looks like I'll still be riding my HED Alps.

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gtingley

Dec 28, 04 7:45

Post #10 of 30 (941 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [desert dude] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Number of logos on a Zipp 404 wheelset: 12 (and you can add 2 more for the hubs)

- Gary

Stewart

Dec 28, 04 8:25

Post #11 of 30 (888 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [QuintanaRooster] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Are they really $350 more than last years models? What is the difference

King Kong

Dec 28, 04 8:41

Post #12 of 30 (854 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

First off, the Dimples. These dimples aren't going to do anything for you unless you hit some serious speeds. These dimples were derived from the golf ball theory. And how fast does a golf ball come off of the club head (100+ mph). When a ball is going this fast, Everything Matters. The new Zipp wheels with the dimples is the biggest "Marketing Ploy I have ever seen". Lets be honest. Zipp already had a good product. What were they going to do for the next year to spark more interest in there product (get old customers coming back). I tell you what they did....they created a new wheel and slapped some dimples on it that do nothing for you......

Now for the baked on stickers. I could care less. I personally like Zipp wheels and really like the new logos vs last years logo.

I think Zipp makes a good product. I have enjoyed there wheels in the past. I might end up adding the new 808 to my arsenal.

I am disturbed that there is a significant rate hike on the 404 product. I think they are truly taking advantage of the consumer where this is concerned.

My opinion.

(P.S. - even if you gave me some big case study with regards to the dimples and how they work with these wheels, its still BS. For what it is worth, I like the dimples for cosmetic reasons, nothing else. I think it adds a little flare to the wheel itself. Other than any performace increase..............GIVE ME A BREAK!!!)

CS7

Dec 28, 04 9:26

Post #13 of 30 (815 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Are the clincher version dimpled?

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JohnA

Dec 28, 04 9:28

Post #14 of 30 (809 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [CS7] [In reply to]	Can't Post

AFAIK, all the new "deep" wheels are dimpled - clincher and tubular.

CS7

Dec 28, 04 9:33

Post #15 of 30 (803 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Which also means a price increase for those too. Looks like Hed 3 instead this year.

"There are three kinds of people in the world. There are wolves and there are sheep. And then there are those who protect the sheep from the wolves....." - Christopher Shields

JohnA

Dec 28, 04 9:51

Post #16 of 30 (781 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [CS7] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm going to let all of you in on a little secret.

The cost of the rims has only gone up by $50 per rim if you just buy the rim. The other $200? Probably just related to demand. Hey, if Zipp can get $1600 for these wheels, more power to them, but you don't have to pay it.

It is possible to get a set of these wheels built, with the new rims, Sapim spokes and Am Classic hubs for around $1300/set.

SuperDave

Dec 28, 04 21:46

Post #17 of 30 (664 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [JohnA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The new molds for the wheels are I'm sure just one of the costs adding to the price increase. There is the increase in cost of materials (some aluminum alloys went up as much as 200%) and the increased costs of being an american based company in a global economy.

The new 808 front as well as the 606 combo will grow to be very popular this year. The baked on decal leaves the surface unfettered unlike the old one that had depth to it relative to the rim sidewall.

Ritchey and Easton/Velomax use Zipp rims, I'm sure theirs won't have big ZIPP decals baked into them.

-SD

http://feltbicycles.blogspot.com/

Khai

Dec 28, 04 22:11

Post #18 of 30 (649 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [SuperDave] [In reply to]	Can't Post

[reply]Ritchey and Easton/Velomax use Zipp rims, I'm sure theirs won't have big ZIPP decals baked into them.
-SD[/reply]

Hey SD - are you saying that these (http://www.velomax.com/models_tubulars_TempestIITubCarb.php3) are Zipp rims? Paired with the Velomax R3 hubs, these could be the ultimate (non-disc) race wheels, no?

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SuperDave

Dec 28, 04 22:18

Post #19 of 30 (644 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Khai] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I better not say that, because they don't. I speculate that it may be. The details list a 56mm rim, and Zipps are 58mm, Ritchey claims they use a "Made in USA" rim.

I can't say that they are Zipps with certainty, but simply as an outside observer to the product, I think they look like Zipps.

...whew.

-SD

Khai

Dec 28, 04 23:12

Post #20 of 30 (625 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [SuperDave] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the clarification. I noted the 2mm discrepancy in the listed rim depths and was thought they might be using an older model Zipp rim...

On a related note, is there any difference (as far as you are aware) between the Ritchey/Velomax wheels and the [regular] Velomax wheels?

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Khai

Dec 28, 04 23:16

Post #21 of 30 (623 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Khai] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hmmm... looking closer at the Velomax website, they list the rim depth as 56 in one place, and 58 in another (check out the little box to the bottom left of the wheel picture showing a cross section of the rim - http://www.velomax.com/models_tubulars_TempestIITubCarb.php3).

I've emailed Velomax asking them directly, and will post the reply here if (I get one).

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DRAwpt

Dec 29, 04 6:07

Post #22 of 30 (559 views)

2 mm difference? You guys are nerds! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Murphy'sLaw

Dec 29, 04 7:55

Post #23 of 30 (509 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Khai] [In reply to]	Can't Post

It appears based on Khai's link, that the rims are Zipps, since they use the patented Zipp/HED flaring shape, as opposed to what all the other rim/wheel manufacturers do.

vs something that looks more V or U shaped like this:

So, they either ARE Zipps, or they paid a licensing fee or whatever for use of the design.

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SuperDave

Dec 29, 04 9:55

Post #24 of 30 (457 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [Khai] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Do you mean Easton/Velomax and Velomax?

There is a huge difference between Ritchey's and Velomax's wheels.

-SD

http://feltbicycles.blogspot.com/

Khai

Dec 29, 04 10:53

Post #25 of 30 (413 views)

Re: Saw the new Zipp 404 today [SuperDave] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sorry, yeah - Easton/Velomax and Velomax.

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