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Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D
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Martin C
Jul 3, 08 11:05
Post #76 of 120 (940 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [cooterbob]
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So what is a “decent” roadie group?
My own learning experience......
I did pretty well in local Olys, finishing in the top 1% of bike splits overall in my last year of really going for it, 5:30 bike split at IMCDA, blah blah.
so I started doing double centuries and brevets. You know, the tall skinny guys with greybeards?
I don't think I've EVER finished higher than top 40% of field, after 14 doubles or so. Ask CLM how her first brevet went.
My point? Hard core, experienced cyclists aren't necessarily the plastic-framed, kit-wearing dorks leaving the LBS on a thursday PM group crash. It's very difficult for this sub-culture to understand this, but that seems ok with me.
Anyway.......all roadies aren't alike. I suppose that's why I call myself a CYCLIST.
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"It sucks for
everyone
after 150 miles."
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suicide blonde
Jul 3, 08 11:08
Post #77 of 120 (934 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Laflore]
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I wouldn't say roadies have issues with triathletes, or any other group for that matter. Most road racers I know are quite impressed with what triathletes are able to do in 3 tough sports. Sure, sometimes they like to tease the triguys but that goes both ways.
In terms of raw riding ability, many triathletes are plenty strong but tend to have just one gear albeit a pretty fast one. Most road riders are more impressed with raw strength (i.e. sustained power: TT, climbing) combined the ability to accelerate and hold a burst. I've seen many a strong triathlete quickly off the back of a weak field in a criterium.
Now, roadies can definitely be cold towards anyone new on group rides who doesn't look like a seasoned road racer. This includes most triathletes, mtb'ers, fitness cyclists and general newbies. This "look" isn't necessarily shaved legs and fancy kit (although that helps! lol), but moreso how natural one looks on the bike. Often, just a glance is needed to know that someone is very experienced and comfortable on their bike.
Why this "elitism" from a bunch of "poseurs"? Simple. You literally put life and limb into the hands of every single person you ride with in a group. Or at least anyone you let get in front of you. Too many accidents happen due to inexperienced riders riding erratically, suddenly swerving or braking. Usually because they overlap wheels or take a bad line, but sometimes for no apparent reason at all. It is actually helpful on group rides to point out those exhibiting squirrelly behavior so they can be avoided or told to stay at the back.
Any new rider has to prove to the group that they can ride safely and be trusted. Don't take offense to this. Every roadie went through it at one point, too.
Many of the top local triathletes in my area ride and race with the road guys, and they are much faster now because of it. But they leave the tri-bikes at home and ride like roadies. Heck, I'd say they are triathletes *and* roadies. Same thing with most of the top local mtb racers....
This thread is very interesting. I have been very fortunate to ride with a bunch of great guys who belong to the local riding club. I'm in my second year of cycling with them regularly and they've been patient thoughtful teachers and I have learn a ton from riding with them. I was a total noob to riding and triathlon when I started; they had every reason to be suspicious. Somehow I think I've been blessed tremendously by finding them and have the utmost respect for their "roadie" tendencies. They've made me a much better rider than I would have been had I spent my training time in solitude. I make a point to ride like a roadie with them and it's been all good - we all benefit. Funny though, if I ride in aero apart from them, I still get called on it even though I am not following anyone or in a paceline. They are very particular about that.
tigermilk
Jul 3, 08 11:16
Post #78 of 120 (929 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Rahzel]
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Yep totally agree that was a silly post. Enter a TT (even a local one) and see how you stack up with the roadies. Believe me; they can ride hard for a long time.
Haha, it was interesting to observe the results at a local 10 mile TT a few weeks ago. The roadies (plus one really strong triathlete) all finished the relatively technical course in 21-23 minutes and the triathletes all finished in 26-28 minutes! We triathletes just couldn't compete!
Look at the results for your typical sprint or Olympic tri. The bike legs are embarrassingly slow. I would say 75% or more of triathlon participants would not be able to hang in a cycling mens 5 or womens 4 race. Did a "tri vs roadie" 40k a few years ago. I was mediocre at best with around 59 minutes. Good enough for top 5. Only 1 triathlete even busted an hour. He had a good time, but he was also a former cat 2 roadie.
My recovery rides are often faster than the average speeds I see from tri results. The majority of triathletes should have no illusions about their speed on the bike, which is pretty poor compared to your average road racer.
Triathlons are great for the purpose they serve. They provide an avenue for ALL levels of fitness to compete. You have to have a certain minimum fitness just to compete in mass start bike racing unless you enjoy falling off the back.
M~
Jul 3, 08 11:19
Post #79 of 120 (923 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [tigermilk]
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again, why are single sport athletes being compared to multisport athletes?
This is a baffling conversation.
do140.6
Jul 3, 08 11:33
Post #80 of 120 (909 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [M~]
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I've been reading this post for two days now and have held off giving my opinion b/c I didn't want to waste my time in this argument. Now I shall waste my time. Exactly what M said. Do you roadies swim 500m, 1.5k, 1.2 miles or even better do you swim 2.4 miles before jumping on your bikes and drafting off each other for 100 miles? How can anyone compare cycling to triathlon? When we ride 112 miles it's a solo effort, we've just swam 2.4 miles and then we have a marathon still to run. Of course we're not going to be as fast! The worse part of this whole thread is the stereotypers on it.
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I have failed at many things, but never in my desire to try again.
CB1
Jul 3, 08 11:57
Post #81 of 120 (885 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Martin C]
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“My point? Hard core, experienced cyclists aren't necessarily the plastic-framed, kit-wearing dorks leaving the LBS on a thursday PM group crash. It's very difficult for this sub-culture to understand this, but that seems ok with me.”
I agree. My point, if I had one (probably didn’t), is that most of the cyclists I see, whether they are on drop bars or tri bars, are somewhat pedestrian and this roadie/trigeek debate always amuses me. I see drop bar people doing just as many stupid things as the aero bar people and in fact, at least around here, probably more because there are more of them. Plus, if you can hang with a fast roadie or roadies, I really find it hard to believe that the trigeek has not figured out the rules of the road and how to behave when in close proximity to other riders. But stealing from Dennis Miller, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong….
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Born again heathen
CarboPro mixed with Bud Light makes for an excellent, although somewhat foamy, Saturday night refreshing beverage
rayhuang
Jul 3, 08 11:58
Post #82 of 120 (880 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Triburger]
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Now being relatively new to BOTH sports, I cant help but be confused as to the attitude of roadies towards triathletes in pack riding. I can understand how riding in aerobars can be incredibly stupid near 10-20 other people, but many triathletes dont come from a cycling background, so how are they supposed to know how to ride in a pack? What exactly is the learning curve for pack riding? I've heard often of how road veterans dislike newbies in the pack, but where does the opportunity to learn come from?
I havent read the whole thread yet, but this is my take on this.
Back in the 80's and 90's before I quit cycling there were guys in the group rides who were older, meaner, nastier (they are called Cat. 2 Masters btw) and when they yelled at you during fast group rides, which occurred every minute it seemed ("get on that wheel, closer to that wheel, dont overlap you idiot-do you want to take us all down<, you almost caused a crash, stop squirreling, dont pick up the pace when you get on the front, pull off already, you better not let a gap open") you damn well listened and you were scared to get yelled at.
So to not get yelled at on the next ride you did what they said without any lip and you got better fast.
So i took 15 years off the bike and came back and guys still (roadies who race every weekend too) cannot ride in pacelines to save there lives. No fluidity, swing too wide when they pull off, stop pedaling right in front of the whole damn pack then pull off, non, zero, nada "FEEL" for the pack. And always pulling too hard till they are right off the front of the pack by 50 meters and staying there-clueless on a 60 mile ride.
Whats the difference, no one dares teach these "adults" how to ride because no one respects the traditions of cycling and no one believe in learning anything. Pacelines are an art, truly are and no one cares to learn how to do them and how to truly enjoy the flow of a smoothly working one.
Buy the $3000 carbon bike and ride. Man a lot has changed in the last 15 years!! Like BobC posted, you try and teach someone something and all you get is attitude from roadies or Tri guys. So we all shut-up.
I hated those old yellers in the pack back in the day, but now I understand how important a role they played.
... ... ... ... ...
http://www.raysracingadventures.blogspot.com
psycholist
Jul 3, 08 12:03
Post #83 of 120 (868 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [do140.6]
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I've been reading this post for two days now and have held off giving my opinion b/c I didn't want to waste my time in this argument. Now I shall waste my time. Exactly what M said. Do you roadies swim 500m, 1.5k, 1.2 miles or even better do you swim 2.4 miles before jumping on your bikes and drafting off each other for 100 miles? How can anyone compare cycling to triathlon? When we ride 112 miles it's a solo effort, we've just swam 2.4 miles and then we have a marathon still to run. Of course we're not going to be as fast! The worse part of this whole thread is the stereotypers on it.
Dude. I can see your tatoo now. Shoot ... your Slowtwitch handle even has a tatoo. OOOOooooohhhh. You're an Ironman. We roadies humbly bow at your feet.
It's funny how stereotypically Ironman triathlete you sound.
Question: When you refer to all of the stereotypers on this thread, do you include yourself?
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Bob C.
Wreaking vengence on the young.
M~
Jul 3, 08 12:05
Post #84 of 120 (864 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist]
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I think you completely missed the point of his comment.
psycholist
Jul 3, 08 12:22
Post #85 of 120 (837 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [M~]
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With a remark like,
"Do you roadies swim 500m, 1.5k, 1.2 miles or even better do you swim 2.4 miles before jumping on your bikes and drafting off each other for 100 miles?"
I'm pretty sure I didn't misunderstand what he was going for. If I did, it's because of the lousy job he did making his point.
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Bob C.
Wreaking vengence on the young.
tigermilk
Jul 3, 08 13:14
Post #86 of 120 (796 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [do140.6]
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So then why in a 40k event with tri folks where swimming and running aren't an issue, are triathletes bringing up the rear, and by a significant margin? The differences in speeds can't be solely attributed to multi vs. single sport (as someone who has done multisport, I can attest to at least an n=1 perspective).
My comment stands - triathlon is open to a wider segment of the population. I know many folks in my cycling club who participate in triathlons. They do several a year and should be applauded for getting out there and being active. Yet they'd be COMPLETELY off the back in the first mile of a road race. If you are going to compare triathletes to roadies, you need to compare them to roadies who race in my opinion. And those roadies who race are way more dominant, on average, in cycling than triathletes.
I don't mind triathletes as long as guys don't show up wearing a "bro" or "manzier".
do140.6
Jul 3, 08 13:20
Post #87 of 120 (789 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [tigermilk]
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That's exactly my point tigermilk, you can't compare the two. We are not soley focused on one sport. We have two others to consider.
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I have failed at many things, but never in my desire to try again.
trail
Jul 3, 08 13:28
Post #88 of 120 (781 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Tri2HaveFun]
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Calling BS on that one. Enter a regional roadie TT event at Cat 1-3, and come back and tell us how it went.
Tri2HaveFun
Jul 3, 08 13:30
Post #89 of 120 (776 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [trail]
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Dude, it was meant to be a joke. Lighten up.
Don
Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!
gamebofh
Jul 3, 08 13:37
Post #90 of 120 (771 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [do140.6]
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Triathletes and cyclists suck. They'd get completely destroyed at a game of Ultimate Frisbee.
What was the point again?
-Jot
psycholist
Jul 3, 08 13:50
Post #91 of 120 (753 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [gamebofh]
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I've always wanted to play ultimate Frisbee. When I was younger (and a smoker/drinker) I used to play Frisbee golf in the park on the river in Tulsa. That was really cool. You can really mess yourself up playing Frisbee golf. My right shoulder used to ache all the time.
I think the way to restore peace and consensus to this thread is to hijack it a bit and for us all to turn our focus onto mountain bikers. What is it about them, anyway? Can't they ever show up anywhere on time? Have y'all ever noticed that, when roadies say a ride starts at N:00, that means everyone shows up at (N-1):45 and is ready to roll out by N:00. When an MTB ride is schedule for N:00, they all start to show up aroun N:10 ... they talk about how many beers they drank the night before ... they futz and putz around and the ride rolls out somewhere between N:30 and N:45. As a roadie, I'm WAY too anal to handle that sort of behavior.
Also, we roadies can beat those MTB guys like a drum in a 40k TT.
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Bob C.
Wreaking vengence on the young.
SimpleS
Jul 3, 08 14:38
Post #92 of 120 (732 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [do140.6]
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actually that is not strictly speaking true, my wife for example races crits, road races, tri (up to HIM this year) running races) on a regular basis, and cyclocross in the fall. And before you mention it she has 4 IM under her belt as well. I know a few STers who race a number of different disciplines in a single season and definitely in one calendar year.
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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
bonesbrigade
Jul 3, 08 18:02
Post #93 of 120 (668 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist]
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I've always wanted to play ultimate Frisbee. When I was younger (and a smoker/drinker) I used to play Frisbee golf in the park on the river in Tulsa. That was really cool. You can really mess yourself up playing Frisbee golf. My right shoulder used to ache all the time.
I think the way to restore peace and consensus to this thread is to hijack it a bit and for us all to turn our focus onto mountain bikers. What is it about them, anyway? Can't they ever show up anywhere on time? Have y'all ever noticed that, when roadies say a ride starts at N:00, that means everyone shows up at (N-1):45 and is ready to roll out by N:00. When an MTB ride is schedule for N:00, they all start to show up aroun N:10 ... they talk about how many beers they drank the night before ... they futz and putz around and the ride rolls out somewhere between N:30 and N:45. As a roadie, I'm WAY too anal to handle that sort of behavior.
Also, we roadies can beat those MTB guys like a drum in a 40k TT.
.
Hey now!! I'm a mountain bike racer. What you say is mostly true about being late - it drives me crazy. I guess that's why I road bike and do duathlons also. I really enjoy like the different groups of friends and the culture of each.
BTW - I can TT pretty good for a mtb racer. At the local event tonight I averaged over 27 miles/hour (43.4 km/h or us canucks) over 15k.
Cheers.
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gamebofh
Jul 3, 08 19:12
Post #94 of 120 (641 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist]
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I've always wanted to play ultimate Frisbee. When I was younger (and a smoker/drinker) I used to play Frisbee golf in the park on the river in Tulsa. That was really cool. You can really mess yourself up playing Frisbee golf. My right shoulder used to ache all the time.
Taking a break after 10 years to train for IMAZ.
If you want an anaerobic workout, Ultimate will kick you in the teeth.
-Jot
psycholist
Jul 3, 08 19:37
Post #95 of 120 (622 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [bonesbrigade]
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BTW - I can TT pretty good for a mtb racer. At the local event tonight I averaged over 27 miles/hour (43.4 km/h or us canucks) over 15k.
OK ... but did you do it on fat tires with 30 psi (or what ... 2.1 bar to a Canuck?)? ;-)
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Bob C.
Wreaking vengence on the young.
goregrind
Jul 3, 08 20:26
Post #96 of 120 (592 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [tigermilk]
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so people who spend 100% of their training time on the bike are better than people who spend 30 - 50 percent of their training time on the bike? and that people who run 30 - 50 miles a week, which actually hurts your biking, are slower than roadies? how is this possible?
softrun
Jul 4, 08 0:00
Post #97 of 120 (554 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [IKnowEverything]
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Geez man, don't take it too seriously....:) :)
softrun
Jul 4, 08 0:03
Post #98 of 120 (552 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [JohnG]
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You are right JohnG...some people just don't get the fun...they must be roadies...Ha, ha, ha...
softrun
Jul 4, 08 0:07
Post #99 of 120 (551 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [JohnG]
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I am raly glad that you get the joke...some people just don't...
Live fast-take chances
sardus
Jul 4, 08 1:42
Post #100 of 120 (733 views)
Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [cooterbob]
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So what is a “decent” roadie group?
That's easy:
A decent roadie group will swoosh by me regardless how hard I'm hammering, with no hassle and no fuss. The overtaking maneuver is smooth. There's no need to talk, a simple nod as they rush by! And I'm probably not going to see them again for the day!
The not so decent roadie groups are those which I can see from a mile away, almost immobile, and blocking the whole lane. It takes 5 minutes to catch them, then another 5 minutes to get rid of them, as they'll try to stick to my wheel ...usually until I hit the next hill!
So what is a "decent" triathlete, from a roadie's point of view?
That's easy:
A decent triathlete will swoosh by me regardless how hard I'm hammering, with no hassle and no fuss. The overtaking maneuver is smooth. There's no need to talk, a simple nod as he rushes by! And I'm probably not going to see him again for the day!
The not so decent triathlete is the one which I can see from a mile away, almost immobile, and blocking the whole lane. It takes 5 minutes to catch him, then another 5 minutes to get rid of him, as he'll try to stick to my wheel ...usually until I hit the next hill!
I love recursion ;-)
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