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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D

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SaraJean

Jul 3, 08 7:30

Post #51 of 120 (2065 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [tegra] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"and don't even get me started about why competitive swimmers mock triathletes. two words: swim caps. 'nuff said."

But aren't swim caps necessary to keep long hair out of the pool filtration system? That's why I always wear one when my hair is long, and I've been doing it that way for longer than the modern triathlon has been a sport. (Disclaimer: My swim training was with a lifesaving emphasis, and I swam recreationally until 2000, when I started training for my first tri. I do not consider myself a competitive swimmer, though I'm learning things like flip turns so I can blend in better at the college pool where I sometimes train.)

"Real winners aren't content with yesterday's victories"

psycholist

Jul 3, 08 7:35

Post #52 of 120 (2040 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [JohnG] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am always amused at how, what essentially a joke post, turns into a pissing match. Good points on both side (Bob & Martin OOUUCCHH) but can't people just get the joke?
j

I laugh at jokes when they're funny.

Having been taken down and taken out for a year with a shattered kneecap, I sometimes fail to see the humor when people do unsafe or stupid things on group rides.

Besides ... I felt I sufficiently qualified my story. I know it's not everyone. Unfortunately, it only takes one. Three weeks ago a couple of our local Ironmen triathletes were near the front of our local group ride. They started horsing around with each other and then one of them touched the rear wheel of the rider in front of him and went down. He took six other riders with him. And as is always the case in such instances, it's wasn't the offending rider who was most seriously hurt. It was another rider who had a broken finger, shoulder and rib injuries, a mild concussion and road rash.

These things aren't funny. Tri/TT bikes are not designed or intended for pack riding. You people who stoke yourselves that you're "faster than roadies" ... your bikes are faster. That's why they're used in individual time trials. So why aren't those faster bikes used on other road stages at bike races? Because THEY'RE NOT INTENDED FOR PACK/GROUP RIDING and, therefore, they're not allowed.

.
Bob C.

Wreaking vengence on the young.

rdaguirre

Jul 3, 08 7:39

Post #53 of 120 (2029 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [softrun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Amusing post and thread. But let's face it, the problem is all the posturing that goes on in both camps. I ride road primarily but also race in a few local triathlons and road running races each year. So I'm multisport, I guess. I do 90% of my riding on a road bike (with some fixed and mtn thrown in for spice). I slap on some clip-ons during the racing season so I can practice my aero position (when riding alone or with another triathlete). But the dirty looks I get from the roadies when I show up for the local group rides are something else. I never get in the aero position when in a group, out of concern for my own safety and those of others. And I have ridden many times with the group and have never even come close to causing a crash, though I have gone down twice when the "experienced" roadies in front of me have failed to call out a pothole or have overlapped wheels. I just don't get the high seriousness of the roadies. It's like some sacred thing, the damned group ride. It's just a ride. No one will come out and state the rules but will just shoot dirty looks when some infraction of the mysterious code has been committed. Get over it.

And then there are the triathletes, pissing off the roadies by always talking about their swim and run workouts and how fatigued their legs are from the murderous tempo run the day before. Either sandbagging or going on in the way only trigeeks can about VO2 max and thresholds and bricks and yadda yadda yadda. You can see the glazed look coming into the eyes of the roadies, as they think to themselves, "don't these trigeeks ever shut up about their workouts?" I learned when I had kids that the only people who I should crow to about their accomplishments were the grandparents and aunties and uncles. No one else cares.

So I guess it goes both ways. I don't take any of it too seriously; reminds me too much of high school, when the divisions were about what music you listened to. Blowhard zealots always bored me.

As the guys at my gym say, on their t-shirts: Shut up and train.

bonesbrigade

Jul 3, 08 8:01

Post #54 of 120 (1967 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [TriBriGuy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yep totally agree that was a silly post. Enter a TT (even a local one) and see how you stack up with the roadies. Believe me; they can ride hard for a long time.

I'm typically a FOP bike split guy locally, but I get smoked pretty good at the local TT (I am getting better though).

I also agree that tri guys have much more to learn from roadies instead of the other way around.

_______________________________________________

JohnG

Jul 3, 08 8:02

Post #55 of 120 (1964 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree that a shattered knee is not funny, but the original post was about "Style'n" , not about riding in packs. It was about the notice me factor of COOL STUFF! I think it was a lighthearted look at how geeky we can be, not a shot across the bows of roadies. There are legitimate claims from both sides but my point was that the original post was a joke. "Did you hear the one about the Roadie who...".
Who can take seriously a post that uses the line "super duper titanium/unobtanium/whateveranium bike"?
j

admill

Jul 3, 08 8:03

Post #56 of 120 (1959 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [softrun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The biggest "issue" I see with triathletes is that they often disrupt the rhythm/tempo of the ride in order to comply with their own training plan for the day. They would do well to pay attention to the ride and fit into it rather than just being out there sharing the same patch of road, with the understanding that the majority of the time they will get a better workout than whatever is in their book for the day.

I'd say 75% of triathletes are not strong/fast/skilled enough hang with a decent roadie group. Of the ones that are, a small minority pay attention and become legitimate roadies themselves. That group are the ones that are going to have the fastest bike splits because they are going to be the best all around cyclists.

psycholist

Jul 3, 08 8:12

Post #57 of 120 (1919 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [JohnG] [In reply to]	Can't Post

FatandSlow

Jul 3, 08 8:14

Post #58 of 120 (1909 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [SpencerDC] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Having spent plenty of time in both worlds, I find that the overwhelming number of roadies and triathletes have tremendous respect for the other. In fact we are kindred spirits at heart which is why triathletes are some of the most fanatical cycling fans around and vice-versa. If you're a strong and competent rider no one cares what label you attatch to yourself. "

This is dead on the money. Even if you're not that strong or competent, being polite is enough. It's great when a triathlete gets to the front and sets a solid, smooth pace. Man, ya'll are tough to follow on my road bike. What a workout! It's a bit uncomfortable when a tri gets on the aero bars mid-pack. Roadies make tris nervous when we sit 1 foot off their back wheel. It's just different.

All this roadie vs. tri stuff reminds me of a question I got from a non-riding co-worker last week. "Do all of you run stop signs and block traffic?" My answer was, "In about the same proportion as drivers that run stop signs, block traffic, don't signal, speed, etc." We notice what people in other groups do that we don't like and extrapolate that onto the entire group. Not the smartest thing to do. Better to notice what we like and extrapolate...

Ok, time to take off my rose-colored glasses and get back to work!

JohnG

Jul 3, 08 8:15

Post #59 of 120 (1906 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist] [In reply to]	Can't Post

exactly!

CB1

Jul 3, 08 8:17

Post #60 of 120 (1893 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [admill] [In reply to]	Can't Post

�I'd say 75% of triathletes are not strong/fast/skilled enough hang with a decent roadie group.�

Ah, so here is the nub of it. Just what constitutes a �decent� roadie group? Around my parts there are 2 bikes shops and there is no question that one sends out a decent roadie group (and then some) and the other every time I see them are spread out all over the place. So I guess the front of the group is �decent� and the back of the group isn�t. The other roadies I see around are usually out for a weekend stroll, riding double/triple pissing of drivers, generically not paying attention and apparently more interested in looking good that riding hard. So what is a �decent� roadie group? I think we are talking a very small percentage��
------------------
Born again heathen
CarboPro mixed with Bud Light makes for an excellent, although somewhat foamy, Saturday night refreshing beverage

admill

Jul 3, 08 8:31

Post #61 of 120 (1849 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [cooterbob] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

So what is a �decent� roadie group?

That's easy, a smooth fast group of skilled riders. From your comments it sounds like you are either confusing posers with real riders or observing cyclists on recovery rides (something cyclists have time to do because they are not trying to jam in two other sports). There are bad cyclists and good cyclist like any other group. The good cyclists and their rides might be hard to find if one doesn't know where to look.

(This post was edited by admill on Jul 3, 08 8:46)

SimpleS

Jul 3, 08 9:16

Post #62 of 120 (1743 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [softrun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This subject is getting old and I have done both (5xIM plus crits, rr, TT etc.) Was average at best at both disciplines

In my view these post show the insecurities of tri heads rather than vice versa

And for the record I would rather ride with an experienced cyclist than an inexperienced one, whether they be tri-heads or roadies, particulary in a pack. It just so happens that they tend to be roadies more often than not, irrespective of aero bars or tri bikes.

What defines a pack is another interesting question.

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

cupajoe

Jul 3, 08 9:25

Post #63 of 120 (1718 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [SimpleS] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I thought about the different relationships with roadies, mountain bikers and multisport athletes over the years. I've been in all three camps and have felt all the pains of breaking in and feeling like "one of them".

I think the roadie mentality is different than multisport athletes. Our local multisport club is doing very well with membership. We have a synergy with the local cycle club and have helped them up their membership. Most of the multisport riders want to learn new skills but the attitude from the roadies is if you can't hold on during a ride then find your own way home.

Most multisport clubs foster learning relationships with other members and we help one another. This issue has to be forced in most cycle clubs.

And off-roadies... well we all wish we were one of them ;)

__________________________________________________________________________
www.cornwallmultisportclub.com | Turbo Crank | Cool t-shirts.

roadie21

Jul 3, 08 9:37

Post #64 of 120 (1681 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [softrun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In the words of bikesnob, Roadies make fun of mtber's, MTber's make fun of fixsters, fixsters make fun of roadies, roadies and triathletes make fun of each other and then everyone makes fun of recumbents.

Devlin

Jul 3, 08 9:42

Post #65 of 120 (1661 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [roadie21] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Well, yah, recumbents are just silly... :)~

John
I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]

Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars

Laflore

Jul 3, 08 9:44

Post #66 of 120 (1655 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [softrun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I wouldn't say roadies have issues with triathletes, or any other group for that matter. Most road racers I know are quite impressed with what triathletes are able to do in 3 tough sports. Sure, sometimes they like to tease the triguys but that goes both ways.

In terms of raw riding ability, many triathletes are plenty strong but tend to have just one gear albeit a pretty fast one. Most road riders are more impressed with raw strength (i.e. sustained power: TT, climbing) combined the ability to accelerate and hold a burst. I've seen many a strong triathlete quickly off the back of a weak field in a criterium.

Now, roadies can definitely be cold towards anyone new on group rides who doesn't look like a seasoned road racer. This includes most triathletes, mtb'ers, fitness cyclists and general newbies. This "look" isn't necessarily shaved legs and fancy kit (although that helps! lol), but moreso how natural one looks on the bike. Often, just a glance is needed to know that someone is very experienced and comfortable on their bike.

Why this "elitism" from a bunch of "poseurs"? Simple. You literally put life and limb into the hands of every single person you ride with in a group. Or at least anyone you let get in front of you. Too many accidents happen due to inexperienced riders riding erratically, suddenly swerving or braking. Usually because they overlap wheels or take a bad line, but sometimes for no apparent reason at all. It is actually helpful on group rides to point out those exhibiting squirrelly behavior so they can be avoided or told to stay at the back.

Any new rider has to prove to the group that they can ride safely and be trusted. Don't take offense to this. Every roadie went through it at one point, too.

Many of the top local triathletes in my area ride and race with the road guys, and they are much faster now because of it. But they leave the tri-bikes at home and ride like roadies. Heck, I'd say they are triathletes *and* roadies. Same thing with most of the top local mtb racers....

M4044AG'er

Jul 3, 08 9:54

Post #67 of 120 (1624 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Laflore] [In reply to]	Can't Post

When I did MTB we called roadies "Dicks on Sticks"

A couple of weeks ago I was on a solo ride. Stopped at a country C-Store to refill my water. I was in Timex Tri Shorts and a cotton looking tank top silver sunglasses and a red and white LG helmet. As I walked over to my bike I heard one of the roadies, a group of about 10 all in full kit, matching socks and all, say...."see, I told ya.....a triathlete....you can spot em a mile away".

So I mounted my bike, poured a little water in my hand to wash the sticky infinite concentrate off my down tube, looked down at my bento box stuffed with Gu's and a cliff bar and set off to complete my solitude 5 hr ride.

Hurry Up Every Chance You Get

(formerly LuctorEtEmergo)

SimpleS

Jul 3, 08 9:57

Post #68 of 120 (1621 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [cupajoe] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

think the roadie mentality is different than multisport athletes. Our local multisport club is doing very well with membership. We have a synergy with the local cycle club and have helped them up their membership. Most of the multisport riders want to learn new skills but the attitude from the roadies is if you can't hold on during a ride then find your own way home.

in some cases this is true. However, as you are aware, this is the nature of the beast so to speak. In a road race its hang on or your day is done. Its a much harder sport, mentally, at least when you start to race. Coming from a multisport background into road racing requires a significant change in mindset more than fitness (type). The nature of multisport is more inclusive, this is function of a number of factors and I suspect much to do with its roots. Also look at the age groups that race/participate in multisport events versus road racing, I would hazard to guess that the multisport crowd come into the sport older than their counterparts in road. It's a bit like swimming.

I actually dont see why its such an issue with getting dropped and left behind. I play a lot of other sports where there is a clear winner and loser, and note I use the word loser. I play squash and tennis competitively, you either win or you lose. If you dont hang on and contest the final section of the race or ride (in some cases) you lose, so try harder next week. The mentality of multisport is so very different, the inclusiveness (generally speaking) is one of the great selling points of the sport and the lifestyle.

There are different levels of ability and this distinction is very important. One of the issues is the lack of appreciation that bike handling skills (and speed) vary greatly. For a cat 4 rider to show up and try to mix it up front with the 1/2s on a training ride might get the Cat 4 guy a few funny looks, there is a huge difference in speed, skill and experence in most cases. Letting a tri head into a fat moving pack withouth knowing their ability is plain silly. If we were in pack and I dont know you and you were riding a full tri rig I would get in front of you (if I could) Nor are all tri heads equal, Gillain Moody a local pro just turned to road due to injury and won a major crit race in down town Vancouver on the weekend, but she is clearly an experienced cyclist, we cant compare her to someone who bought their first real bike two years ago and only rides out doors during the summer months.

Furthermore, even very experienced tri heads have their own unwritten group riding rules, if you can keep up with a group why should they give up a) their workout and b) possibly their safety for you when it might have been better for you to ride with a slower group, isnt this why there are different groups in a tri club?. My point is it isnt about whow you label yourself but can you really ride and be safe. while doing it Do you understand the rules of the pack so that we are all predictable in our actions.

Dont get me wrong I think multisport is great, I meet great people have fun with them, and my life is better for it. But just because you ride a bike doesnt mean you are doing the same sport, they are very different. Why isnt the OP comparing the long distance cyclist (the nutter than try to qualify for Paris Brest Paris). They have their own rules, heck even their type of bikes, and they ride far and some of them ride far fast

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

tri_2b_athlete

Jul 3, 08 10:05

Post #69 of 120 (1598 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [JohnG] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree...

I also find it interesting that I never hear this stuff on the road, or at the pool. It only comes up in the cyber world where people have virtual balls.

JohnG

Jul 3, 08 10:15

Post #70 of 120 (1573 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [tri_2b_athlete] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Those virtual balls seem to grow even bigger when some one clicks on the Lavender Room Icon!

(This post was edited by JohnG on Jul 3, 08 10:16)

xraycharlie

Jul 3, 08 10:33

Post #71 of 120 (1533 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [psycholist] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What's really funny is arguing who are the bigger dorks ... roadies or triathletes. I think both our ships have sailed. ;-)

.

Sometimes these sorts of conversations make me think of The People's Front of Judea vs. The Judean People's Front.

(This post was edited by xraycharlie on Jul 3, 08 10:35)

Rahzel

Jul 3, 08 10:34

Post #72 of 120 (1526 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [bonesbrigade] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Yep totally agree that was a silly post. Enter a TT (even a local one) and see how you stack up with the roadies. Believe me; they can ride hard for a long time.

Haha, it was interesting to observe the results at a local 10 mile TT a few weeks ago. The roadies (plus one really strong triathlete) all finished the relatively technical course in 21-23 minutes and the triathletes all finished in 26-28 minutes! We triathletes just couldn't compete!
-----------------------------------------------
Blog | My 2008 Giant Trinity Alliance
2009 races: Triple T (Ohio) | Muncie Endurathon | Ironman Wisconsin

bonesbrigade

Jul 3, 08 10:41

Post #73 of 120 (1503 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Rahzel] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, that's the same thing around here. We have a weekly 15km TT course, and the best roadies are doing 18:50s - the multi-sports guys are in the 21-25 mintute range. Huge difference.

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onabubble

Jul 3, 08 10:46

Post #74 of 120 (1483 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [dw67] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'll second that...

android

Jul 3, 08 10:53

Post #75 of 120 (1457 views)

Re: Revelation...why roadies have "issues" with trathletes :D [Rahzel] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Yeah, but add a run after and see if they will join in!!

Actually, I don't mind riding with anyone. The only thing I object to is aerobars and squirrely handling in a pack and those behind the seat water bottles that pop out when going over RR tracks or bumps. Roadies HATE dropped bottles and those who dropped them. If a roadie drops a bottle, he'll get a ration of "butterfingers" harrassment, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

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