Slowtwitch.com Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Forum Rules & Legend RULES &
LEGEND
Log in LOG
IN
 
 
 
Search for (options)
Newsletter Signup

Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All Tri ForumClassifiedsLavender RoomJobsThe Womens


BIGZACH

Aug 25, 08 14:30

Post #51 of 55 (453 views)
Re: Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair [M~] [In reply to] Can't Post

haha...oh yea....I really was just trying to get out of a jam there :-))


Fleck

Aug 25, 08 16:13

Post #52 of 55 (403 views)
Re: Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair [Slowman] [In reply to] Can't Post

the effort on the bike yesterday was fabulous, and took 6min off of a record that pnf, lori bowden lisa bentley, erin baker, failed to break. at the same time, when that bike course record was set 16 years ago, the female winner's overall time was 10min faster than the winning time yesterday. even then, that time 16 years ago failed to break the even older course record.

Dan,

Julie was ahead of her time. She had an amazing race that day at IMC in 1992 - one for the ages. But as you pointed out not even the legit fastest time ever on that course! I don't want to turn this into back-in-the-day vs. present day contest, but it does have to give one pause, when you consider what we rode on back then and how far, all the bike and gear companies say we have come.



Steve Fleck
steve@nineteenwetsuits.com
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com


Slowman

Aug 25, 08 16:41

Post #53 of 55 (369 views)
Re: Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair [Fleck] [In reply to] Can't Post

"Julie was ahead of her time."

i think there were three back then that could throw down like that: julie, erin and PNF. julie's race at IM NZ a few months later was as good or better than the one in canada -- she broke erin's bike and run course records and missed the overall by 30sec or so, because of a horrific swim. but she didn't have the consistency or longevity that erin or paula had. she could've used brett's swim coaching ;-)

i've never felt that the gals were as good as they were back then until the last couple of years. nowadays, with 3 or 4 girls running right at 3-flat in kona, nobody era ever been that good. even in the best days during the early 90s in kona, the fastest run would be 3:04, 3:11, even 3:15. now, to have all these gals threatening to run 2:**, that's amazing.

now, on the bike, that's different. belinda in canada stood alone, and when you look at the other bike rides in canada, they were quite mortal. it wasn't like it was an especially fast day, belinda rode 10 or 12 minutes off the best male times. she was just that fast.

here is where brett is correct: so many of the pro girls are not good technical riders, so the advantages built into some of today's bikes are lost on them. for example, cervelo builds with a high BB, so you can stay in the aero position and pedal thru turns; or get into the aero position and start pedaling again before you come out of turns; and be back up to speed very quickly. but if you don't understand this, then cervelo did something that they may as well not have done. if you can't get properly fitted, if you can't ride while properly fitted, if you don't technically corner and descend and climb well, then a lot of the benefit of a cervelo, or felt, or giant, or trek, is lost on you.

where i think brett falls down a bit in the execution is he seems to throw his hands up about this. he laments the point, which is well taken, but he doesn't seem to have a remedy at the ready. i've spent some time with some of his athletes, and have ridden with them, and positioned them. some of these riders are just horrendous in terms of their technique and tactics (altho they leave me less horrendous than when they arrive). there is a lot of time left on the table with pros like this. 5min, or 10min.

full circle, the reason julie went so fast on round heavy tubes and 8 speeds and old aerobars, and so forth, is because she was superbly conditioned, she knew how to ride technically, she knew how to ride tactically, and we got the most out of the existing technology. i doubt anyone in brett's stable, save belinda and chrissy, maybe erika, could ride with their new equipment as fast as julie rode on her old equipment during 92 and 93, prior to her surgeries (esp on hilly courses like penticton, auckland, zofingen). and julie was, as you know, primarily a runner. this is, imho, what brett's athletes are leaving on the table by not investigating the finer elements of bike riding.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman


Fleck

Aug 25, 08 16:45

Post #54 of 55 (360 views)
Re: Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair [Slowman] [In reply to] Can't Post

Dan,

Great response. I agree on all counts!

Steve Fleck
steve@nineteenwetsuits.com
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com


erchan_2000

Aug 26, 08 3:08

Post #55 of 55 (259 views)
Re: Post IM-Canada: Sutton Addresses Granger Affair [Gandalf] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
I've thought long and hard about this issue as I am disappointed to see that in certain ways there has been a polarising effect between the TBB forum and Slowtwitch, which has degraded in some instances into childish name calling. I refuse to be painted into either corner because, as you say, there is value in the hard work approach and also the tech approach. But why not both as you say. Put both together and you get what the British track cycling team got in Beijing. However remember that Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton are not inside the Secret Squirrel club. They just do the training and racing. Ditto for Team CSC. They set 'em up, we ride 'em.

Age Groupers for the most part have to figure most of this out for themselves, hence the value of a forum like ST. But the information therein needs to be handled with care.

There is a false perception that TBB are anti technology because CW rode with drops in Germany, equally a false perception of slowtwitchers because there's a lot of tech talk. But Bella and Stephen rode on P3Cs at Embrun, and there's a lot of training hours logged by Slowtwitchers....


.......as will likely become more evident at some point in the near future I recall if there is a training log integrated into ST.

.
.

 
I think Sutton summed it up pretty well. He'll just whatever technology is out there that ACTUALLY makes his athletes go faster.
The problem nowadays is people just buy/spend on whatever is the latest and greatest.
Even Phelps only wore the LZR body suit in the 100m/200m free races. The IMs, he just used the LZR jammer.
In Summary, use appropriate equipment for the right task.
Just because it's more aero/lighter/etc .. doesn't necessarily make you go faster since it's really a personal thing. Everybody is built differently.

He talk the talk and walk the walk. He's got results to back it up. Enough said.
What's there more to discuss. He's openly sharing some training advice (free advice may I add).

Just like Simon's performance in Beijing, no amount of technology creates a champion. Good old fashion hard work just WORKS! :->

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All  
 
 
 

The Pro Effect
Which male pro is most likely to influence your buying decisions
Al Sultan
Alexander
Andersson
DeBoom
Frodeno
Gomez
Kemper
Lieto
Lovato
McCormack
Other
Potts
Rapp
Reid
Sindballe
Stadler
Whitfield