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Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal
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sperera
Feb 23, 05 0:55
Post #1 of 36 (4162 views)
Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal
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Okay, here are a few pics. I am at 5cm behind the bottom bracket as per UCI rule for time trials....think TT not triathlon. Monique (the wife) took them last night for me. Yes, cos of the kids I train at 10:30pm more often than not! I ride at 6cm on my road bike.
yes, I know, I don't have the ZIPP 404's or disc on.....looks crap.....
note 'Lucky' the cat going off picture!
I tried to put on a mean look for this one! heh heh heh and yes, I do NOT shave my legs.....Monique, my wife says I would be a 'girl' if I did!
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
remi
Feb 23, 05 2:10
Post #2 of 36 (4148 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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please shave your legs before!!!
sperera
Feb 23, 05 2:14
Post #3 of 36 (4145 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [remi]
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I knew that was going to come up!!! heh heh heh
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
TriBriGuy
Feb 23, 05 3:01
Post #4 of 36 (4119 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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Looks like your knees splay out slightly at the top of your stroke...try to ride with your knees closer to the top tube...a wild ass guess says you could bring yours in about an inch or inch and a half...there's a huge reduction in frontal area...even in your current setup...beware, though, a concious decision to try to ride like this will work the crap out of your inner thighs and groin until you adapt...doing this will also help get your knees inside your elbow coverage....
I'm looking at this part in the third photo...the head-on one... look closely, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Other than that...these are obviously static photos...and I'd say that photo two is probably representative of your relaxed riding position...but when, as our British forum friends would say...you are REALLY HONKING...I'd say you'll probably look more like photo one, just a bit more upright...You may be able to get a bit lower as the season and your fitness progress...but don't do so at the expense of power and comfort...
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AmZof Lemming
sperera
Feb 23, 05 3:09
Post #5 of 36 (4112 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [TriBriGuy]
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thanks for commenting....
you should have seen how my legs splayed out before I had the LeWedges on my shoes....much worse.....yes, as they are static perhaps they are not in the position I would be pedalling in.....I'll put a mirror in front and look at that tonight.....thanks again
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
gtingley
Feb 23, 05 5:18
Post #6 of 36 (4020 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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Hi Stephen,
If you can sustain your power (which you should), you need to get lower in front. Try bringing your stem down (need an adjustable stem, Ritchey makes one) until your knees are behind your elbows when at the top of the pedal stroke, like here:
http://www.printroom.com/...115&image_id=154
Knee angle looks OK, but this would have to be measured
Hands/forearms look very good.
Move your elbow pads in 2cm on each side, should be no wider than your knees.
Are you rolling your hips?
Try that. My 2 cents.
- Gary
Rotor Q-Rings - Slowtwitch exclusive 15% discount on sets of Q-Rings
. Use code "slowtwitch" online at checkout at
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sperera
Feb 23, 05 5:47
Post #7 of 36 (3962 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Gary Tingley]
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I'm going to start here and see how I progress, with some time and effort I aim to get lower as my flexibility increases (I hope) and i get used to this frame as well.....only got it recently.
I have the stem with max spacers on so going lower over time is possible.....
Pads CAN come in as you say....
I'm not rolling my hips as far as I know...the great thing about the saddle I use is that the sides start to dig in if too high for example....Saddleco Flow Ti saddle....love it
Thanks for commenting Gary, and I'm really interested in whatever research you come up with finally on the UCI positioning you mentioned.....you can use me as a beta tester!
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
gtingley
Feb 23, 05 5:59
Post #8 of 36 (3931 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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It looks pretty good, after you get used to it, try removing the spacers.
What I mean by rolling the hips:
- Gary
Rotor Q-Rings - Slowtwitch exclusive 15% discount on sets of Q-Rings
. Use code "slowtwitch" online at checkout at
http://www.RotorCranks.com
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sperera
Feb 23, 05 6:16
Post #9 of 36 (3896 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Gary Tingley]
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ahhhhh....yes, I AM making a conscious effort to roll the hips forward....and I AM doing so in the photograph. The saddle I use does not hurt the area so I can be there in comfort....
The rolling the hips is important for me these days as I'm compressing the thoracic verterbrae because I'm lugging my son Sean around the house a lot of the time as he wants "uppie".....and I need to focus on having good posture in that area.....I go to the chiropractor to unlock them!!! they get compressed and it affects the diaphram....
I am familiar with those illustrations from John Cobb's site when it was up.....
Thanks for the help, appreciate it big time.....really look forward to more tips etc in the future
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
sperera
Feb 23, 05 6:31
Post #10 of 36 (3862 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Gary Tingley]
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Excellent image of you....you look really comfortable too.....some people just look right in aero position....me, i look like I'm nailed into it by force sometimes.....
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
rmur
Feb 23, 05 6:48
Post #11 of 36 (3814 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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Hi Stephen,
You can compare some of your primary position specs to the table linked below. That can help point out areas of potential CdA improvement. My favorite is saddle-elbowpad drop.
It
appears
you could be quite a bit lower .. assuming you can sustain the power there and/or move fwd on the saddle to open up the ole hip-angle.
I'm setup UCI legal but ride ~10cm forward on my saddle on the flats or effectively at ~80 deg STA.
Maximum Watts/Cda is what it's all about (for flat-rolling courses!)
rm
http://www.biketechreview.com/...e/position_table.htm
_________________________________
Gizmo marketing specialist :-)
sperera
Feb 23, 05 6:54
Post #12 of 36 (3801 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [rmur]
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at the moment going lower is not possible as I loose power....I look at the PowerTap as a tell-tale....but as you guys are commenting about it I will work towards it.....thanks for the link!
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
sperera
Feb 23, 05 7:10
Post #13 of 36 (3778 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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what's the saddle to elbow drop measurement...from where to where, don't understand....
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
sperera
Feb 23, 05 7:11
Post #14 of 36 (3774 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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ah, it's the drop from the saddle to the pads yes? from where do you measure? top of the saddle to top of the pads????
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
rmur
Feb 23, 05 7:25
Post #15 of 36 (3753 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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it's from saddle top - assuming your saddle is basically level - doesn't matter where you measure it and down to the elbow-pads - measured vertically.
I measured mine by measuring top-tube to top of my elbow pads (where your forearms actually rest), measuring top-tube to saddle top, and subtracting the two.
It's a reasonably good measure of how aggresive your position is - taking overall body proportions into account.
rmur
_________________________________
Gizmo marketing specialist :-)
sperera
Feb 23, 05 7:33
Post #16 of 36 (3732 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [rmur]
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okay....kitten aggresive is where I'm at probably....heh heh heh
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Stephen Perera
Gibraltar, Europe
graphics@stephenperera.com
http://www.stephenperera.com
"Take rest; a field that has rested gives a bountiful crop" Ovid
Diesel
Feb 23, 05 7:35
Post #17 of 36 (3725 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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First off, if you doing TT races, I would check your local rules. The "UCI" rule doesn't dictate what all USCF races will do, there are other factors involved. Heck, in some TTs, you can't ride a TT bike......
The bike set-up appears fine, although you may be able to go lower in front depending on your flexibility.
However, there are several issues on how you are riding your set-up. In steep/tri position, you're armrest play a key role. In TT, your butt should be firming planted to generate the watts and upper body should simply "hang down" to it's most comfortable/aero position. Concentrating on this will allow you to keep for leg movement efficient (knee together as discussed). I.e. - Your core provides the support, not the arm rests.
For a drill - take your front end off, find your position with a camera and go back and put it where it should be......
Nice bike, nice cat...nice wife for taking the pix!
p.s. - put a blanket over the floor!
AJHull
Feb 23, 05 7:37
Post #18 of 36 (3719 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [rmur]
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What would be a ideal value for how much lower the top of the elbow pads are from the top of the saddle?
_____
Adrian in Vancouver
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gtingley
Feb 23, 05 7:41
Post #19 of 36 (3700 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [AJHull]
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This really depends on your height, taller riders will have a larger saddle-elbow cup distance to achieve a similar position to smaller riders.
- Gary
Rotor Q-Rings - Slowtwitch exclusive 15% discount on sets of Q-Rings
. Use code "slowtwitch" online at checkout at
http://www.RotorCranks.com
, all items in stock, and always FREE UPS Ground shipping!!
AJHull
Feb 23, 05 8:03
Post #20 of 36 (3649 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Gary Tingley]
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6 ft
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Adrian in Vancouver
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rmur
Feb 23, 05 8:10
Post #21 of 36 (3626 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [AJHull]
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AJ,
I don't believe there's a single # for everyone of that height. But ... the BTR table shows you that folks can adapt to positions in the low 20cm range with 15cm being pretty typical.
Most data are for TT'rs - I'm not talking about IM distance here - okay?
rmur
_________________________________
Gizmo marketing specialist :-)
gtingley
Feb 23, 05 8:25
Post #22 of 36 (3593 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [AJHull]
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AJ, with your saddle height and UCI distance set, adjust the elbow pads so that they just cover the knees.
Then, adjust the elbow cup reach (this is a personal setting).
It is difficult to set a number for the drop of the elbow cup-saddle distance, because the distance of the elbow cups and extensions will determine how -low- your shoulders are. A longer stem will put you stretched out more, but lower. This also increses your hip angle.
A good place to start is to look at the top of your pedal stroke and see what the relation of your knee to elbow is. At the top of your pedal stroke, your knee could be abover your elbow, or even with it, and if this is comfortable, and you have a little reach on the aerobars, you should be relatively flat (torso) depending on your back type.
- Gary
Rotor Q-Rings - Slowtwitch exclusive 15% discount on sets of Q-Rings
. Use code "slowtwitch" online at checkout at
http://www.RotorCranks.com
, all items in stock, and always FREE UPS Ground shipping!!
AJHull
Feb 23, 05 8:39
Post #23 of 36 (3568 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Gary Tingley]
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Thanks Gary and rmur.
_____
Adrian in Vancouver
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AndyPants
Feb 23, 05 8:43
Post #24 of 36 (3556 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [sperera]
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I have this problem, what are these LeWedges? Do you supinate (i.e.: high stiff arches, when you run, you roll off the outside of your foot)?
Thx, AP
The Babysetter
Feb 23, 05 8:47
Post #25 of 36 (3538 views)
Re: Please comment on my aero position - UCI legal [Smitty8]
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Quote
First off, if you doing TT races, I would check your local rules. The "UCI" rule doesn't dictate what all
USCF
races will do, there are other factors involved. Heck, in some TTs, you can't ride a TT bike.....
I'm pretty sure he's in Gibraltar (as in "rock of") so he's not too concerned about the USCF ;-)
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