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Official MIT information thread. The amazing MIT waterbottle pg. 2
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footwerx
Jan 18, 07 15:33
Post #26 of 115 (5003 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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cheaper to cut an airfoil shape out of styrofoam and tape it to your top tube behind your stem. Or, put one of the vision aero headset spacers behind the stem, and fill the space in between with plasticine.
duncan
Jan 18, 07 15:52
Post #27 of 115 (4988 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [footwerx]
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Both of those methods would classify as fairings.
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footwerx
Jan 18, 07 15:55
Post #28 of 115 (4983 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [duncan]
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so is a wheelcover.. i don't think it's illegal in triathlon.
duncan
Jan 18, 07 16:02
Post #29 of 115 (4978 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [footwerx]
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Perhaps not; I'm not au fait with triathlon rules on this.
I've also heard of one of the British cyclists competing in UCI track events with a sawed-off section of trispoke taped behind his stem to smooth the airflow, which somehow the commissaires didn't pick up on.
brider
Jan 18, 07 16:04
Post #30 of 115 (4974 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [footwerx]
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Wheel covers are an exception to the "fairing" rule because they duplicate a disk, but not quite as well. Adding anything non-structura to the bike like that would be considered a fairing, and thus illegal.
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jeremyb
Jan 18, 07 20:01
Post #31 of 115 (4935 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [brider]
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Check out Biketechreview.com to see how a wheelcover relates to a disk...
Also, im thinking of making a carbon fairing that a Profile Upfront bottle sits in that takes the air off of the Profile and brings it right up to the headtube. Making that front area/bottle more disc like.
In Reply To:
Wheel covers are an exception to the "fairing" rule because they duplicate a disk, but not quite as well. Adding anything non-structura to the bike like that would be considered a fairing, and thus illegal.
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andrew
Jan 18, 07 21:50
Post #32 of 115 (4910 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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here's a link to Dan's Hooker article w/ pics of my old bike, including shots of the stem.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/.../hookers/hooker.html
________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger"
Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM
footwerx
Jan 19, 07 0:44
Post #33 of 115 (4883 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [brider]
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actually wheelcovers are considered fairings because they are not allowed in UCI-conformant TTs. You probably don't worry about this because in the USA you guys don't follow those rules yet, as i understand it.
jeremyb
Jan 19, 07 9:57
Post #34 of 115 (4819 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [andrew]
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In Reply To:
here's a link to Dan's Hooker article w/ pics of my old bike, including shots of the stem.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/.../hookers/hooker.html
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BMAN
Jan 19, 07 10:14
Post #35 of 115 (4806 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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I would think that they fairing would have to be longer (bento box size) than the fairings shown in the Hooker thread. Also I would bet money that they fairing used to hold the water on the top tube mentioned in the MIT pod cast would be at least half the length of the top tube. I guess we will not know until we actually see it.
Aero & Light is Right
SLC 2.0
BMAN
Jan 23, 07 11:01
Post #36 of 115 (4725 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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Some new information:
From this article:
http://www.velonews.com/...rticles/11504.0.html
Kim Blair, director of the MIT wind tunnel offered a presentation on aerodynamic research with bikes. He talked about drag and boundary layers and airflow, followed by how tunnel testing is accomplished at MIT and at other tunnels. When he got to the results section, many in the audience were taken aback by a water-bottle design from MIT graduate student, purportedly able to save 110 seconds over the course of a 40 kilometer time trial.
Now if only we could see this thing and get one.
Aero & Light is Right
SLC 2.0
(This post was
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gralden
Jan 23, 07 11:17
Post #37 of 115 (4671 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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What about the water bottle that FLoyd Landis used in the final TT stage of the TDF last year?, it looked pretty aerodynamic to me.....
Wolfwood
Jan 23, 07 11:20
Post #38 of 115 (4665 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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110 seconds???? Over a 40k???
BMAN
Jan 23, 07 11:24
Post #39 of 115 (4637 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Wolfwood]
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I know. That is a huge claim. That is why I really want to see this thing and why it would save this much time. From what I have heard, it helps with the flow behind the stem. So if this was the case them why not design the top tube of the bike to actually come up behind the stem and run back to the seattube. I know that other companies have done oval and aero top tubes but maybe after this information they can do it correctly.
Aero & Light is Right
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Wolfwood
Jan 23, 07 11:33
Post #40 of 115 (4595 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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What about this?
BMAN
Jan 23, 07 11:48
Post #41 of 115 (4535 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Wolfwood]
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The think the ratio is still wrong. I would think that it would have to be about a 3:1 ratio and this is not even close. The concept is good but I would guess that the reason the new water bottle tests so well that it would make a round tube that is 1:1 become more like a 3:1. Just a guess.
Have an oval top tube that is around 70 -75mm tall and 25mm in width (just an example) but with the headset mounting near the bottle of the tube and have the other 2/3 of the top tube just behind the stem and run it back to the seat tube. Intergrated seat clamp and you would have a very smooth transition.
The issue with almost every aero top tube is that they mount the headset at the top of the top tube and not at the bottom to use the top tube as a fairing.
Maybe the new Cervelo P4C (hint hint) can have an aere top tube that flairs up right behind the stem and run back to create the most aero Cervelo ever.
How about incorporating a hydration bladder into the top tube to hold about 750ml.
Aero & Light is Right
SLC 2.0
(This post was
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by Bman on Jan 23, 07 11:51)
jeremyb
Jan 23, 07 11:49
Post #42 of 115 (4531 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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yeah, almost 2 mins is crazy.
I start to get worried when a scientist becomes a capitalist. The concern is that they will massage the science data to support the capitalist revenue.
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jeremyb
Jan 23, 07 12:50
Post #43 of 115 (4406 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk]
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@ TriTalk----how long was the thin tapered cucumber?
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(This post was
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gregclimbs
Jan 23, 07 14:01
Post #44 of 115 (4278 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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i will take a photo of mine tonight for ya....
g
greg
www.wattagetraining.com
TriTalk
Jan 25, 07 10:35
Post #45 of 115 (4073 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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I recall the water bottle being about 1/3 the length of the top tube.
David Warden
Tri Talk Triathlon Podcast
http://tritalk.podshowcreator.com
BMAN
Jan 25, 07 10:40
Post #46 of 115 (4047 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [TriTalk]
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Did it start right behind the stem just leaving enough room to turn the stem and then head back about 1/3. Also was it thicker than the top tube and if so how much. I am so very curious about this and if the claim of 110 seconds is accurate.
Aero & Light is Right
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jeremyb
Jan 26, 07 11:23
Post #47 of 115 (3861 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [Bman]
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"The most surprising thing about aerodynamic gear? A goofy-looking aero water bottle prototype designed by an MIT grad student saved almost as much as the wind tunnel session. It looks like a bedpan on a top tube, but it works."
http://boulderreport.bicycling.com/...attack_of_the_e.html
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The_Mickstar
Jan 26, 07 11:40
Post #48 of 115 (3817 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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" -In examining the aerodynamic benefit of various factors, Blair’s team found that expensive aerodynamic wheels save only 40 seconds over a 40km individual time trial. An aerodynamic rider position saved over two minutes. Granted, the most aero position will come via a $1,000/hour wind tunnel session, but if you’re really interested in it, you can start by experimenting with your position on a long, level stretch of road with a powermeter. The most surprising thing about aerodynamic gear? A goofy-looking aero water bottle prototype designed by an MIT grad student saved almost as much as the wind tunnel session. It looks like a bedpan on a top tube, but it works."
So, let's see... I can save almost two minutes, but I have to drink out of a bedpan. Hmm....
Steve
Steve
Cervélo Mafia
member since June 2006
andrew
Jan 26, 07 11:47
Post #49 of 115 (3800 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [The_Mickstar]
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...and we're STILL waiting to see just what this thing looks like. Any pics out there? anyone? Buhler?
________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger"
Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM
FishyJoe
Jan 26, 07 12:11
Post #50 of 115 (3766 views)
Re: Official MIT information thread. HOPEFULLY [jeremyb]
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Is it really a water bottle or a fairing that holds water?
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