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Nytro SpeedFill
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runmick
Sep 27, 08 11:27
Post #1 of 26 (911 views)
Nytro SpeedFill
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Anyone have any experience or have you seen this.
Is it thin like the specialized or will it stick out wider than most frames.
Thanks
rroof
Sep 27, 08 11:29
Post #2 of 26 (909 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [runmick]
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Many photos posted over the past several weeks. I like mine OK. Search for them using the button above :)
____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 11:51
Post #3 of 26 (882 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [runmick]
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I examined it at Interbike. In my opinion it is a bit of a white elephant: a rather cumbersome solution to a simply matter of carrying fluids on the bike. I've been working three months on a hydration feature that keeps getting delayed by the introduction of new systems like this one and others.
In general, when it comes to hydration on the bike, the simplest solutions are the best answers.
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
(This post was
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by Tom Demerly on Sep 27, 08 11:52)
Rokko
Sep 27, 08 11:55
Post #4 of 26 (876 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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In general, when it comes to hydration on the bike, the simplest solutions are the best answers.
I hope the folks at Cervelo don't see this... they're gonna be bummed out about designing the P4C frame around a water bottle.
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 12:00
Post #5 of 26 (868 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Rokko]
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This strikes me as about as simple as it gets:
These two systems (below), on the other hand, are much heavier, less aerodynamic (presuambly- and I think this is a safe presumption) and require mounting hardware that complicate and disrupt frame aerodynamics in addition to be ing more involved to clean:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
(This post was
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by Tom Demerly on Sep 27, 08 12:08)
runmick
Sep 27, 08 12:26
Post #6 of 26 (833 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Interseted in hearing about your design. I use a profile aero bottle in front. I like not having to reach down. Just looking for more aero
runmick
Sep 27, 08 12:28
Post #7 of 26 (830 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Tom,
What system is that on the cervelo. I don't think I ever saw that one.
AlexG
Sep 27, 08 12:38
Post #8 of 26 (823 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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I can't see how that P4 system is very good. It looks awefully low and small and you would have to stop peddling to reach it and bend down almost to your crank to grab it. And now I dont see any place else on the frame to put a water bottle holder.
MAGGBO
Sep 27, 08 13:01
Post #9 of 26 (797 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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tom- kind of an unfair review of a product you haven't tested out. i've reviewed this product before on ST, but have now used it in a half, olympic and sprint. it works really well, much better IMO than any profile type front mounted system. holds 40 oz. of fluid (2 water bottles) and is easy to refil on course from an aid station if needed. during sprint tri last week i put 1/2 bottle only and was able to get quick sips as needed never getting out of aero position. Speedfil company is in san diego and claims to have tested product out in the low speed wind tunnel there. seems to act as a fairing. on my friends P-3 it almost touches downtube, on my BMC its a prefect fit against downtube. i find it easy to clean as any other system w/ only one large nut on cage to remove. i really like this product- i dont have any affiliation w/ speedfil. anthony
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 13:06
Post #10 of 26 (786 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [AlexG]
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Again, none of us has used the equipment yet so I think most "opinions" (admittedly my own as well) on this are best reserved until we do have an opportunity to actually use the equipment.
Until then, good or bad, we are all guessing.
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
JulianInEngland
Sep 27, 08 13:09
Post #11 of 26 (775 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Tom, if you get a minute can you just check an email I sent to your
yahoo
work inbox please?
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The above poster is English not British, please refrain from using the B word as it causes me offence.
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trail
Sep 27, 08 13:12
Post #12 of 26 (772 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [AlexG]
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Agree. The reaching down for the bottle, drinking, then reaching down to replace is also aerodynamically costly for a bike that's supposed to be designed aero to the nth degree. Also it's low capacity, non-standard shape, and looks difficult to refill, all of which are disastrous for IM-calibre biking. For IM you'd almost have to tack on a behind-the-seat or between-the-bars system that either accept bottles or are is easy to refill.
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 13:36
Post #13 of 26 (742 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [MAGGBO]
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Maybe.
I have used several and participated actively in the development of two tube fed drinking systems. Neither of them are even available anymore. I can't recall the name of either but one was actually
pressurized
and used a bag-type reservoir suspended behind the saddle.
My opinion on tube-fed hydration is systems is informed and I feel they are
less than viable compared to non-tube systems as an entire category
. The best of them, in my informed opinion based on using several of them (some of the names I don't remember as I mentioned, others include names like "Neverreach") is still second best to a standard bottle and a well thought out hydration/nutrition plan that makes judicious tactical use of aid stations on the course.
I did an 11 hour Ironman at Wisconsin using 1 bottle cage and a Profile AeroDrink system. I wasn't excited about the prospect of carrying heavy hydration systems loaded with special fluids up all the hills at Wisconsin. Liquids are extremely heavy. My philosophy on effecient performance hydration is "Less is more" and "Use the aid stations". This may not be to everyone's liking, but I do believe it is well considered, tested and experienced enough to be able to profer an informed opinion.
Again, you absolutely are correct in saying I have not used the Speedfil system. The reason for that is I don't like tube fed drinking systems- and I have used them. They are hard to clean and keep clean, tend to trap bacteria in the tubes (you can see mold grow in there quickly- with NeverReach I had that problem) and are heavier and require more mounting hardware than a standard bottle and cage or even a behind the saddle system.
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 13:46
Post #14 of 26 (732 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [trail]
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"The reaching down for the bottle, drinking, then reaching down to replace is also aerodynamically costly "
Absolutely agreed. I have a completely non-scinetific sense that every time you go for the bottle it could cost you anywhere from 5-15 seconds depending on a wide range of variables that would be tough to quantify. I am sure its slower though- 100% agreement there.
Now, here is where the skill of the racer comes in. There are places on the course where you have to give away some speed: Coming into a turn in the braking zone, on a straight descent where you are sitting up. These are the tactically savy places to go to your bottle. Hydration can't always dictate tactics and tactics can't always dictate hydration, but there are places on the course where it makes sense to drink and there are places where the cost in terms of time isn't worth it.
Decisions like this are contingent on the race, the terrain, the weather and the induvidual athlete's hydration needs. These decisions can be made intelligently with experience so as to minimize the aerodynamic penalty or eliminate it altogether while still facilitating adequate race hydration. You race with your head in addition to your heart, legs and lungs...
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
(This post was
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by Tom Demerly on Sep 27, 08 13:46)
nebmot
Sep 27, 08 15:01
Post #15 of 26 (681 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Tom,
The speedfil mounts just like any other bottle cage, so that is a mute point. I agree that thing is a bitch to keep clean thats the only downfall i have had with it so far. You should have seen me catching cross winds with it on coronado yesterday. =]
Are you coming out to do superfrog again?
trail
Sep 27, 08 15:27
Post #16 of 26 (658 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Sure, I agree. I, personally, like to drink very often and don't want to have to strategically pick my drinking times so I'd just use the Bento Box option and stick my flat kit down there (presumably a little more aero than a saddle bag which would jack up the ultra-clean P4 seat post), and put an Profile aero bottle in the bars or put a Camelbak full of icy beverage under the jersey.
But it's still a bike manufacturer limiting your options with yet more proprietary stuff. We lost the seat post long ago. Now we've lost the fork. The rear brake. The water bottle. Maybe that's the cost of innovation, and the answer is "just buy a P2C/P3C if you don't like it," but still the amount of manufacturer lock-in is ever-growing. I just can't wait for bike-specific proprietary wheel designs.
Shama
Sep 27, 08 15:30
Post #17 of 26 (654 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [trail]
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I am sure the reason for the P4s integrated water bottle is the same as Specialized's design. They recommend using it on the frame even if you don't actually use it. Its made for aerodynamics over function...just the Specialized one actually looks like you might be able to use it. All they are putting on the bike is a faring. Which is illegal...unless its called a water bottle.
The Speedfill is pretty good. Better than a NeverReach which you can "never reach". Unlike the very unchanged Profile Designs bottle that splashed your front end with your favorite sports drink when you hit bumps the bite valve on the Speedfill keeps you from spraying your bike with your sticky sugar drink all over your front end and headset when you stop drinking and get back to your riding. Also instead of having all this weight on your front end...you get to add to your center of gravity with even more fluid...40oz I believe. There is not an easy system out there to clean....so far the Speedfill is the best one I have seen so far.
And if you hold true to "rider position" is a larger part of the equation of aerodynamics on a bike, than the frame and accessories on it, then having a bite valve come up exactly where you want it too should most people from moving around on the bike to drink.
Tom D, good luck on your design...I love seeing new stuff!!!!
MAGGBO
Sep 27, 08 15:37
Post #18 of 26 (644 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Shama]
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shama, your reply was a better response to Tom d. than i gave above. no sports drink on bike, bars, hands ... is one of the best features of speedfil. staying aero all ride has to have some advantage. anthony
Tom Demerly
Sep 27, 08 15:38
Post #19 of 26 (643 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [nebmot]
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I'll be at Superfrog again. I like that race. It's my chance to hang around the Special Warfare Center and play SEAL wannabe.
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/
(NOTE: This poster owns a retail business selling triathlon related products).
marsh283
Oct 9, 08 10:27
Post #20 of 26 (475 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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Just searching through looking at speedfil stuff out of curiosity. What were the capacities of your aerodrink and bottle? Is it possible that they had a larger capacity than 40oz(speedfil) and thus carried more liquid weight? If the data speedfil shows about aerodynamics is true, plus not having to break aero, wouldnt that be a viable choice? Granted I havent tried the speedfil, but other than the ability to only carry one liquid, it sounds pretty cool
swimfan
Oct 9, 08 10:36
Post #21 of 26 (456 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [Tom Demerly]
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This strikes me as about as simple as it gets:
These two systems (below), on the other hand, are much heavier, less aerodynamic (presuambly- and I think this is a safe presumption) and require mounting hardware that complicate and disrupt frame aerodynamics in addition to be ing more involved to clean:
I have a septic system less complicated than some of those! Why do people complicate something as simple as $2 water bottle?
_________________________________________________
I know I can't spell... This is not going to be graded so I don't care about the grammar either...
JoeO
Oct 9, 08 10:51
Post #22 of 26 (418 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [swimfan]
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I have a septic system less complicated than some of those! Why do people complicate something as simple as $2 water bottle?
The complication lies only in the setup. The use is easier. You might as well ask why people would complicate drinking by requiring moving ones arm, reaching down lifting a bottle and then having to put it back when you could simply drink from a tube right there.
If you prefer bottles, fine but the motivation behind one of these systems should be simple to understand. I put convenient hydration over tradition.
HH
Oct 9, 08 11:06
Post #23 of 26 (385 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [trail]
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But it's still a bike manufacturer limiting your options with yet more proprietary stuff. We lost the seat post long ago. Now we've lost the fork. The rear brake. The water bottle. Maybe that's the cost of innovation, and the answer is "just buy a P2C/P3C if you don't like it," but still the amount of manufacturer lock-in is ever-growing. I just can't wait for bike-specific proprietary wheel designs.
Not too hard to find standard fork and rear brake. Round seat post is a little harder, but they are out there and they are not even expensive:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...es/08-felt-s32.shtml
Same price, $1500, but aero post if you prefer:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...kes/08-QR-kilo.shtml
You should love this. All the basics in custom steel:
http://www.serotta.com/cx2_steel/index.html
Here's a page of stuff you'd like:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/...LdmpYCFRJexwodr2Bqmw
But since it is getting harder to get the old features as bikes become more aero, you should find an old round-tube litespeed saber, that will last you a long time.
Hoegaarden wishes and Super Record dreams, HH
Turbomentor
Oct 9, 08 11:07
Post #24 of 26 (381 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [JoeO]
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I'm sure my NeverReach system cost me at least 30 secs on my bike split, but I like it. It holds 64 oz for long training rides and for races, I can put as much or as little in that I want. If I CHOOSE to refill at aid stations, I fill it less, if I want to bypass aid stations, I put more in. Simple.
As for the tube, yeah it can tend to get gunky. Being a zymologist, I have tubing that I use to brew beer that I keep perfectly clean. Soak the tube in a light solution of rinseles sanitzer and it's GTG. The NR bottle itself takes about 2 secs to remove from bike to clean...no problem there! Filling the reservoir on the go? Could not be easier, have done it in many races with great success.
Hydration strategy is (I guess) an individual choice. Some guys stuff bottles into their jersey pocket, some use virtually nothing. I saw a pic of a pro in a regular (not XTERRA) tri using a camel bak! What's up with that? In any case, Speedfil system looks pretty much like the same concept as the NR except it is not behind the seatpost and it holds less.
Bottom line is that NR works for me which is pretty much the litmus test as far as I'm concerned.
HH
Oct 9, 08 11:32
Post #25 of 26 (342 views)
Re: Nytro SpeedFill [swimfan]
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For those that want 64 oz on training rides, get two
Zefal Magnum bottles
.
Hoegaarden wishes and Super Record dreams, HH
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