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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
New disk wheel - rain?

tyrod1

Aug 21, 08 8:08

Post #1 of 25 (781 views)

New disk wheel - rain?	Can't Post

Well not really new but recently bought zipp disk rear wheel (used 2 yrs old). Have a race this coming weekend with a 60% chance of rain.

Will rain hurt the wheel? If ok to ride in rain is there anything I need to know how handling in rain ie braking etc. (not many turns in course thank goodness)?

Any help or comments would be appreciated (I did a couple of dry sessions with disk and it really does help).

JSA

Aug 21, 08 8:10

Post #2 of 25 (776 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I did IMLP this year in a frick'n downpour with my 1 year old Zipp disc. No problems. No issues.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

neil_laing

Aug 21, 08 8:14

Post #3 of 25 (763 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The rain won't affect the disc at all unless you ride through a puddle and it fills with water :)
This isn't possible with a Zipp since it's solid/foam filled.

Edinburgh RC

"The cost of the bike is irrelevant. What matters is getting it to fit you so you are both comfortable and aerodynamic." - Me

bikescott

Aug 21, 08 8:39

Post #4 of 25 (736 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Make sure you tape over the valve stem hole after inflating it. You do want to avoid getting water in there if possible, but simply riding it in the rain should no be a problem. Braking on carbon rims in the rain can be an interesting experience, make sure you are using a soft, carbon specific brake pad.

You can use any kind of tape or sticker over the valve hole, and you should take over it all the time anyway. Zipp makes some nice stickers, or you can just use packing tape, UPS labels, whatever you have.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

tyrod1

Aug 21, 08 9:17

Post #5 of 25 (698 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks for the help!

rayhuang

Aug 21, 08 10:29

Post #6 of 25 (661 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just dont have it on your bike on the rack while going to the race, especially if its raining. We saw a couple doing that and were aghast. Zipp disc wheel horizontal to the wind on the back of the car. Wow-imagine coming home to a hole in the disc from a rock coming from the road!!
... ... ... ... ...

http://www.raysracingadventures.blogspot.com

tyrod1

Aug 22, 08 10:56

Post #7 of 25 (567 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well in addition to rain showers the weatherman is now saying wind at 15 mph from ENE. Is there a general guideline as to what is considered too windy for disk wheels? I'm about 5'9", 168...so I don't think I'll get pushed around that much, but given an out and back course, when is the wind speed too dangerous or disk wheel loses it aero advantage? Again, first time on disk wheel in race. Thanks in advance.

swimfan

Aug 22, 08 10:59

Post #8 of 25 (561 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Which race is that? If it is the Accenture on LSD, rain should be the least of your worries.
_________________________________________________

I know I can't spell... This is not going to be graded so I don't care about the grammar either...

tyrod1

Aug 22, 08 11:04

Post #9 of 25 (552 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [swimfan] [In reply to]	Can't Post

No, it's race in GA, 35 miles south of Atlanta. Hurricane Fay dumping lots of wind and rain, with outer spirals hitting our area...but unless we get thunderstorms RD says it's still a go.

JSA

Aug 22, 08 11:05

Post #10 of 25 (545 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

For your size 15 mph winds should not be an issue. I am 6' 2" and 169 lbs and I usually do not feel like I am getting at all pushed around until the wind exceeds 20-25 mph, and even then it is not that bad.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

rayhuang

Aug 22, 08 11:12

Post #11 of 25 (539 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [rayhuang] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Oops-I meant perpendicular to the wind and the bikes low behind the car-ouch and DUH to me!!

as fro cross winds on discs-it like many things its a personal thing. I havent had any problems till a storm blew in from nowhere pre-riding the States course with disc and I was scared to death!! Winds were up in the 50mph range though. Really the bigger issue in most sub 15mph winds is how you and your bike react to the deep section front rim.

Another example (and I was about 145 lbs at the time) was at my first TT with disc covers and FP60 (404) front and a strong cross wind (blustery too). I had no problems riding straight on the out and back course till cool down when i took my hands off my bars to stretch and of course my bike took off 3' to the right just like that!! other times riding in a strong cross wind with 303 rear and FP60 front side winds have blown me off course.

sorry-its a tough call. My humble advise is to come prepared to switch wheels quickly and know what adj. to your der. you need to make for each wheel (if any). For example from my disc to my training wheel is quarter turn CW on the H screw and one to two notches CW on the cable. Of course remember to make those reverse changes when switching back.
... ... ... ... ...

http://www.raysracingadventures.blogspot.com

tyrod1

Aug 22, 08 11:13

Post #12 of 25 (538 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks but what are effects of wind assuming you get some head on, some rear, and cross winds on the aero advantage...or on balance does the wheel still give some aero advantage? I've ridden in practie a time or two and I don't know how much is psychological but bike sure seems faster and computer says so too.

wesw

Aug 22, 08 11:21

Post #13 of 25 (524 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm going to be in Peachtree City tomorrow ridding my disk and front 404. I weigh 145lbs and don't have any problem with cross winds. The wind effects the front wheel more. The disk actually works as a sail in cross winds and gives you an advantage. As long as you're not ridding something extremely deep on the front like a Hed 90 or Zipp 808 you'll be fine.

JSA

Aug 22, 08 11:23

Post #14 of 25 (520 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

There are people who are much more well-versed on that subject than me who can give you the details. No question the disc is faster into a headwind and with a tailwind. Regarding the crosswinds, it depends on the angle of the wind. However, in almost every case, a disc is going to be faster, even in a cross wind. The only time you hesitate with the disc is when you are talking serious cross winds that could push you around or push you over.

But, I will defer to the aero experts to give the actual numbers and factors to consider. The only thing I can tell you is that 15 mph wind and rain would NOT stop me from using my disc and I am about the same weight as you.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

J\V

Aug 23, 08 13:33

Post #15 of 25 (424 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Actually, I think the real question is "Is it windy enough to ride the disc?" In little- to no-wind situations, a disc is no faster than an 808 (as an example). The higher the wind, the more a disc excels, in a general sense. As long as you can control whatever you are riding up front, a disc will help you on a windy day. It's the calm days where it could potentially not help you, especially if the course has any climbing.

__________________________________________________
My $0.02 in a world where pennies are obsolete...

cervelorider

Aug 23, 08 17:50

Post #16 of 25 (373 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [neil_laing] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Not true with the Zipp clincher disc. Tim

Done

Aug 23, 08 17:53

Post #17 of 25 (368 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [neil_laing] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

The rain won't affect the disc at all unless you ride through a puddle and it fills with water :)
This isn't possible with a Zipp since it's solid/foam filled.

My 2005 Zipp disc "filled" with water at IMLP this year... I had to take the tubie off to allow it to drain.

J\V

Aug 27, 08 12:44

Post #18 of 25 (280 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [cervelorider] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Not true with the Zipp clincher disc. Tim

What isn't true with the Zipp 900 clincher?

__________________________________________________
My $0.02 in a world where pennies are obsolete...

Raptor

Aug 27, 08 19:58

Post #19 of 25 (234 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [bikescott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

From Zipp's website, if you are using the newer tubular wheels, you do not need special brake pads (except if you are using Campy pads) and the tubulars will stop quicker in dry conditions and definitely more in wet conditions.

This surface allows for up to 50% greater braking torque than aluminum rims, and although aluminum loses some 40% of allowable braking torque when wet, the Zipp surface loses less than 6%. Your Zipp wheels will be significantly more responsive and stop significantly shorter in wet conditions than any aluminum rims. We strongly recommend you ride them in the rain before racing on them so as not to be surprised by this increase in performance. Though this surface does not require special pads, we do NOT recommend Campagnolo brake pads.

bikescott

Aug 27, 08 20:09

Post #20 of 25 (227 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [Raptor] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Correct, you don't have to use them. However, when riding carbon rims in the rain, a soft carbon specific pad works better that standard DA pads (my personal opinion). My comment was specific to the part about riding in the rain.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

JSA

Aug 27, 08 20:40

Post #21 of 25 (217 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [cervelorider] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Not true with the Zipp clincher disc. Tim

Not sure what you mean. I have a 2007 Zipp 900 clincher disc. It is filled with foam. I did not use tape over the valve hole for IMLP and my disc did not fill with water.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

bikescott

Aug 27, 08 21:54

Post #22 of 25 (205 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think he is referring to the outer rim section on the clincher disc that is not "filled with foam" as the earlier poster stated.

Taping over the valve hole makes the wheels quieter, as well as slightly more aero I am sure. On the 900 tubular disc, I really noticed the noise difference. I haven't riden any of the other discs without the valve hole taped, so can't comment there.

Taping over an open hole in the rain is certainly a good idea.

---------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

cervelorider

Aug 28, 08 0:18

Post #23 of 25 (185 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [J\V] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I own and ride a lot on the Zipp clincher disc. It is very different then the Zipp tublar disc. It is open and hollow in the bulge aera just under the 404 rim. I make a real point of haveing both sides of the tube stem hole taped over to keep water and road debrie out. One side of the disc I use Zipp's black oval patch and on the other side I use their highly visiable bright bike jersey patch. When it comes to pumping up the tire I only pull off the jersy patch side. If I flated during an event it is much easier to see and remove it. Tim

AJB85199

Aug 28, 08 4:38

Post #24 of 25 (149 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

My first 3 races of the year were in downpours. Zipp Sub 9. No issues. No worries.

Searching for a stroke...pure and easy....swimming so free like a breath rippling by.

ddension

Aug 28, 08 7:05

Post #25 of 25 (118 views)

Re: New disk wheel - rain? [tyrod1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I did IMLP this year on a disc too - a sub 9 with powertap and there were no issues.