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Move Clearwater Poll
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sdmike
Nov 11, 08 8:20
Post #1 of 27 (667 views)
Move Clearwater Poll
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My 2 cents. Either:
1) Move to hilly location or
2) Make Drafting legal for the world champs or
3) Make drafting a DQ on first offense.
Everything else just seams to be a bandaid.
jaretj
Nov 11, 08 8:35
Post #2 of 27 (638 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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Changing locations is not going to solve problems either.
When you have 90% of the people comming out of the water between 28 and 34 minutes, the bike course is going to be congested even if the waves are 5 to 10 minutes apart.
jaretj
http://jaretj.blogspot.com
ddension
Nov 11, 08 8:41
Post #3 of 27 (631 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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I am paraphrasing the great Monty here, but the best way to change the Clearwater situation is to not sign up for it. If the drafting situation really bothers you that much, don't race. Period. Frankly, I find my self keeping off of these forums after IMFL and Clearwater as it is a constant bitch-fest. If you don't like it, don't sign up and don't race.
rdm
Nov 12, 08 15:25
Post #4 of 27 (571 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [ddension]
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That is an unrealistic solution.
Any race with "world championship" on it...sponsors like.
Fast times in FL...sponsors like.
Follow the money.
goallout
Nov 12, 08 15:47
Post #5 of 27 (550 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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McFessel has essentially said It'd staying in Clearwater as long as we are welcome. Here is my opinion on Clearwater after racing it on Saturday. I rode legally all day albeit tempting to draft I had decided to give it my best effort to be legal at all times. I was successful in doing so. Yes I rode a good bit 7 meters off 1 wheel or in a few cases several wheels especially the first 20 miles as bike traffic was most congested. Did it help my time a bit? Yea probably. I was 2 minutes faster at Clearwater on the bike than I was at Eagleman which is also a flat course but had zero drafting affect at Eagleman because there weren't as many fast people around. It was also way hotter at Eagleman which affected performance adversely. I also feel my bike fitness was a little better now than it was in June. My point here is you can ride legaly at Clearwater but most people CHOOSE not to. It takes a little discipline to drop back when a group passes you because it pisses you off. People need to police themselves and race by the rules...period. It is up to us to be clean as there simply can't be 500 people on the course policing dirty age groupers. Otherwise it's a great location. The beaches are beautiful and the swim course is great. The run course is actually a bit challenging as you get the causeway bridge twice in each direction per loop so 4 times up and over and there is virtually no shade to be found.
Did the drafting piss me off? Yea... but as I said it can be minimized by the riders deciding to ride legally. I actually liked the race overall. I wouldn't do it every year, but will probably do it again in the coming years. It was nice to get out of a cool Virginia autumn for a few days for sure. It will never have the draw that Kona has as long as it's in Clearwater though. California would be a great choice in my mind... Say San Diego, or Santa Barbara? Both are very desireable locations with lots of hills. The water may be a bit chilly in November though.
Irondicknixon
Nov 12, 08 15:50
Post #6 of 27 (539 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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With the sale of the WTC don't be surprised to see the race moved.
Richard Nixon
Fit 2 Tri Multisport inc.
Triathlon Products and Coaching
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rich@fit2tri.com
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Flanagan
Nov 12, 08 15:53
Post #7 of 27 (534 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [goallout]
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In Reply To
McFessel has essentially said It'd staying in Clearwater as long as we are welcome. Here is my opinion on Clearwater after racing it on Saturday. I rode legally all day albeit tempting to draft I had decided to give it my best effort to be legal at all times. I was successful in doing so. Yes I rode a good bit 7 meters off 1 wheel or in a few cases several wheels especially the first 20 miles as bike traffic was most congested. Did it help my time a bit? Yea probably. I was 2 minutes faster at Clearwater on the bike than I was at Eagleman which is also a flat course but had zero drafting affect at Eagleman because there weren't as many fast people around. It was also way hotter at Eagleman which affected performance adversely. I also feel my bike fitness was a little better now than it was in June. My point here is you can ride legaly at Clearwater but most people CHOOSE not to. It takes a little discipline to drop back when a group passes you because it pisses you off. People need to police themselves and race by the rules...period. It is up to us to be clean as there simply can't be 500 people on the course policing dirty age groupers. Otherwise it's a great location. The beaches are beautiful and the swim course is great. The run course is actually a bit challenging as you get the causeway bridge twice in each direction per loop so 4 times up and over and there is virtually no shade to be found.
Did the drafting piss me off? Yea... but as I said it can be minimized by the riders deciding to ride legally. I actually liked the race overall. I wouldn't do it every year, but will probably do it again in the coming years. It was nice to get out of a cool Virginia autumn for a few days for sure. It will never have the draw that Kona has as long as it's in Clearwater though. California would be a great choice in my mind... Say San Diego, or Santa Barbara? Both are very desireable locations with lots of hills. The water may be a bit chilly in November though.
Its not a great location. Did you see all of the traffic? Angry drivers next to the course is a very dangerous situation. The race is a travesty.
2009 Goals: Cat 1 for Road Cycling, Pro Triathlon
Here's My Blog...Updated 12/8
goallout
Nov 12, 08 16:02
Post #8 of 27 (529 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Flanagan]
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I won't argue that. I personally did not run into any problems but i'm sure problems existed. I think the cops did a good job but yes, the traffic was a bit thick in spots. I certainly think there are better places to have the race no question. As others said the best way to get them to move it is to stop showing up. It's an Ironman branded event though so that will never happen.
Kelly Wissolik
Nov 18, 08 20:03
Post #9 of 27 (410 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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I think Clearwater is a fun place to be, but I'm not sure it's the safest for a 70.3 Triathlon. I have raced it and I think the bike course is along very busy roads filled with people driving while talking on their cell phones, pulling out of Strip Malls and nearly hitting athletes. I wish the 70.3 World Championship were in a safer area.
TriSmarter
Nov 19, 08 4:37
Post #10 of 27 (374 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Kelly Wissolik]
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Being stronger on the bike than anything else i would love to see the race moved some place with endless rollers and wind(did I say that). Its hard to draft when you are constantly going up and down and turning. Vegas, and Wisc. come to mind. I raced in vegas at the silverman a couple years ago. Tough bike; really windy and all the feeds were on uphills-perfect.
Bryancd
Nov 19, 08 5:11
Post #11 of 27 (360 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Kelly Wissolik]
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A freind of mine ran into a car pulling out of a driveway at the race last week. He was ok and was able to carry on.
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
2008 ZOOT Ultra Triathlon Team
Rappstar
Nov 19, 08 8:04
Post #12 of 27 (316 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Irondicknixon]
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With the sale of the WTC don't be surprised to see the race moved.
I agree. Unlike with Kona, the Clearwater location is only because of the connection to WTC's (former) corporate offices. However, the new owners may be loathe to move a race that is clearly growing. Why make changes as long as the race sells out? It's a hard call. We hear a lot of the people complaining, but I bet there are also people who go because it is a course where you can be pretty much guaranteed a PR. Plus it's probably the most social 56-miler out there.
I don't object to the Clearwater location for a race. I don't think it's the ideal 70.3 WC course. There are so many really, really good (and big) 70.3 races, that I think it's a series where the WC could, as with the ITU, really move from race to race. One year, Vineman, the next Eagleman, the next Steelhead, the next Muskoka, the next Cornerbrook, etc., etc. That's what I'd really like to see, even more than a new single location.
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trexleradam
Nov 19, 08 8:11
Post #13 of 27 (311 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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Yes, I think it should be moved.
bmas
Nov 19, 08 8:23
Post #14 of 27 (305 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [ddension]
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"I am paraphrasing the great Monty here, but the best way to change the Clearwater situation is to not sign up for it. If the drafting situation really bothers you that much, don't race. Period. Frankly, I find my self keeping off of these forums after IMFL and Clearwater as it is a constant bitch-fest. If you don't like it, don't sign up and don't race."
So the best solution is just to hide our heads in the sand and ignore the problem?
I applaud those who are trying to find a solution. We have a big problem here, with widespread and blatant ignoring of rules jeopardizing the integrity of the sport.
We must find a solution.
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"Every time I see someone on a bicycle, I fear less for the future of the human race." HG Wells
Irondicknixon
Nov 19, 08 8:39
Post #15 of 27 (287 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Rappstar]
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I skip taking a slot every year because of the cheating. I have no desire until they get it fixed.
If they do move it, it will sell out regardless.
They can't move it from year to year, because there are few places to race where the weather is enjoyable in November.
I wouldn't mind a double, Kona the 70.3 the next week also in Kona! best time for combined races would be cool.
Richard Nixon
Fit 2 Tri Multisport inc.
Triathlon Products and Coaching
www.fit2tri.com
rich@fit2tri.com
Use discount code: fit2tri09
ddension
Nov 19, 08 8:40
Post #16 of 27 (286 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [bmas]
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"I am paraphrasing the great Monty here, but the best way to change the Clearwater situation is to not sign up for it. If the drafting situation really bothers you that much, don't race. Period. Frankly, I find my self keeping off of these forums after IMFL and Clearwater as it is a constant bitch-fest. If you don't like it, don't sign up and don't race."
So the best solution is just to hide our heads in the sand and ignore the problem?
Exactly where in my post do you see anthing referring to 'hiding our heads in the sand'? The bottom line is that the most feasible solution for any single athlete to combat drafting is to not sign up for races that do not do anything to prevent it, or are inherently prone to prevent it.
bmas
Nov 19, 08 11:28
Post #17 of 27 (254 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [ddension]
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"I find my self keeping off of these forums after IMFL and Clearwater as it is a constant bitch-fest"
"If you don't like it, don't sign up and don't race."
I find these statements are avoiding the problem, and avoiding discussing solutions to the problem. Sure many people are just bitching, but there are also many others looking for solutions. The OP made some good suggestions for solutions, and many other good suggestions have been made on this forum also. Hopefully we can come up with a solution before long.
I think a combination of moving to a hilly venue, better enforcement and stricter penalties would be good. I'm also hopeful that technology (draft detection) can provide a solution before long.
gamebofh
Nov 19, 08 11:45
Post #18 of 27 (235 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Irondicknixon]
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They can't move it from year to year, because there are few places to race where the weather is enjoyable in November.
Good point. It's only 75 here today in Phoenix.
...and we all know what crappy weather, roads and lack of water there is in San Diego. :)
...hard to imagine there isn't a place in that small state of Texas that wouldn't fit the bill.
In other words, I don't buy it. But it is obviously to run a race where you've run it before
as opposed to having to do all the work to setup in a new location.
-Jot
mikeymike
Nov 19, 08 12:13
Post #19 of 27 (214 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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Move the race - the bike course is a farce. I'm convinced there is no way to keep 1800 bikes properly spaced on a narrow, flat course. I am an experienced 20 yr competitor who has always raced clean without much fuss. I competed at Clearwater last year and could not avoid drafting when swept up by 30 person packs on the narrow sections of road. There was simply no where to go, bikes on the left, right, front and behind. When I did find an opening to the side I slid in only to pull out again for slower riders and again got caught up in the pack. Some riders cheat but for most its the situation on the course that leads to cheating. I podiumed with a 2:18 bike split for the 55-59 AG. At the awards ceremony I admitted drafting to the other top AG riders and they also said they had drafted. The question is did I draft more, less or the same as the others?
I choose to compete at other 70.3 venues such as St. Croix and Buffalo Springs where drafting is absent unless one purposes to cheat. I will not go back to a so called World Champ Race where the bikes times are not a fair reflection of ability. The only way to remove the problem of drafting at Clearwater is to move the venue. No amount of officials and or wave adjustments and self regulation will change the situation in my opinion.
Mike
cervelorider
Nov 19, 08 13:11
Post #20 of 27 (169 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [goallout]
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I did both Eagleman and Clearwater this year and I agree with what you said. Tim
cervelorider
Nov 19, 08 13:17
Post #21 of 27 (160 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [mikeymike]
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I am also in the M55-59 group and I did the bike at Clearwater this year in 2:48 with no drafting at all. I'm sure I could have knocked off at least 15 to 20 minutes if I got hitched to one of the MANY trains that blew by me. Tim
jlafren42
Nov 19, 08 13:18
Post #22 of 27 (159 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [Rappstar]
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I don't object to the Clearwater location for a race. I don't think it's the ideal 70.3 WC course. There are so many really, really good (and big) 70.3 races, that I think it's a series where the WC could, as with the ITU, really move from race to race. One year, Vineman, the next Eagleman, the next Steelhead, the next Muskoka, the next Cornerbrook, etc., etc. That's what I'd really like to see, even more than a new single location.
I love this idea Rappstar, very good idea, i guess you would have to have a rolling qualification process so the venues would have to be picked 2-3 years in advance, this would be great!
John
http://web.mac.com/...42/Site/Welcome.html
Spanky73
Nov 19, 08 14:38
Post #23 of 27 (137 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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I think they should move it, but if they don't, how about cutting the field in half and doubling the entry fee? Harder to qualify, more competitive race? Huh? Huh? What do you say? Probably not enough hotel / restaurant / rental car revenue though, huh?
chamuco
Nov 19, 08 15:54
Post #24 of 27 (112 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [sdmike]
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There are Tons of places with a tough hilly bike course (or at least one that doesn't make drafting an option), where a world championship could be held.
Santa Barbara is a good one.
Monaco
Ibiza, hilly course in a beautiful location. They have a long distance event there already, although not IM brand.
Lanzarote is an epic course also in a beautiful location.
bmas
Nov 19, 08 15:59
Post #25 of 27 (109 views)
Re: Move Clearwater Poll [chamuco]
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Wow - those would all be awesome locations.
Or how about turning Timberman into the World Championships. Raced there in 2007 and there was virtually no drafting. And what a beautiful location.
With KJ organizing it, it woudl be fabulous!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Every time I see someone on a bicycle, I fear less for the future of the human race." HG Wells
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