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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American?

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Sshoreli

Nov 3, 09 13:01

Post #26 of 63 (624 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

All I know is that dude seems to love and appreciate the US a hell of a lot more than 98% of those people I know that were born here. Not to mention he moved here in middle school and not like some others who just came for college or even later in life and decided to stay.

My vote (if it matters), he is an American...and I don't give away that title all that easily.

gamebofh

Nov 3, 09 13:02

Post #27 of 63 (623 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think that I read that Matty Reed said Meb wasn't American enough.

-Jot

FJB

Nov 3, 09 13:05

Post #28 of 63 (618 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [burnman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Country of origin is completely irrelevant, and anyone that takes issue - asserting that he's not a 'real American' - should go fuck themselves.

So would you be okay if non-Americans run for President or are they only "real Americans" in sports?

STP

Nov 3, 09 13:12

Post #29 of 63 (605 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [STJay] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, that was the most igonrant shit I've read in a long time. One of my colleagues said CNBC's Darren Rovell is a great writer, but I said that may be true, but it doesn't stop him from being a bigot. I also said he must be a Native American, must be his only explanation for such a brazen statement.

Rovell of CNBC, who did alot to get this "unamerican" stuff started just posted a retraction of his column from yesterday. He fessed up to not knowing the facts about Meb's background. http://www.cnbc.com/id/33603449/

Sully

Nov 3, 09 13:18

Post #30 of 63 (590 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Is Cavic a "Real American?"

hgrong

Nov 3, 09 13:20

Post #31 of 63 (582 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [FJB] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Don't you love how easy it is to knock down straw-men that you set up? Man, it makes you look so smart and stuff.

bmcmaster11

Nov 3, 09 13:21

Post #32 of 63 (582 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [FJB] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Looking at our current president, Its hard to argue against letting any-one be the president, but if we get into politics, I think we need to move this to the lavender room.

FJB

Nov 3, 09 13:39

Post #33 of 63 (548 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [hgrong] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Man, it makes you look so smart and stuff.

Relax, it's only a question.

If it bothers you so much, don't answer it.

Thatcher

Nov 3, 09 13:40

Post #34 of 63 (548 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

But, some said, because he was born in Eritrea, he is not really an American runner.

I'm not getting it? Meb's a winner, yet people don't want to recognize him as American, even though he's a citizen.

Yet, I've seen all kinds of media lines identifying winning Canadian athletes like Sam McGlone, Peter Reid and others (who are still bona fide Canadian citizens, even though they may reside in the USA for some duration) as Americans when they win or place in the top 3.

Can someone explain the double standard to me please...?

DavidK

Nov 3, 09 13:46

Post #35 of 63 (535 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [Titanflexr] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

The only reason this became a controversy is that he looks a lot like the Ethiopians and Kenyans that have been dominating distance running. As a pp pointed out, no one had issues with Salazar. It's just racism pure and simple.

American is a nationality, not an ethnicity. He's a US citizen, and showed enough pride to have a USA jersey instead of a big corporate logo...sorry if some people were pissed that he's not white....and glad to see that "some people" doesn't include the ST crowd.

Well said - I agree with your sentiments. David K

FJB

Nov 3, 09 13:47

Post #36 of 63 (535 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [Thatcher] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yet, I've seen all kinds of media lines identifying winning Canadian athletes like Sam McGlone, Peter Reid and others (who are still bona fide Canadian citizens, even though they may reside in the USA for some duration) as Americans when they win or place in the top 3.

I am not aware of anyone saying Peter Reid is American but the issue is where you are born. In many places (eg. Bermuda/Japan) you can never be a citizen unless you were born there to parents of the country. In those cases, for them to suddenly claim an athlete is a citizen, to make them look good, is laughable.

There is also a lot of movement just prior to the Olympics, where athletes from African countries will suddenly be a citizen of somewhere else and win their "new country" a gold medal. Again, it makes them look good.

My issue is when it comes to places like America where they will gladly recognize someone as an American citizen for the Olympics and other events, but then not give them the full rights available to those born there. This is not unique to America, just the present example.

The funny one was Ben Johnson of "Canada". When he won the 1988 Olympic 100m final he was the great Canadian runner but when he tested positive, he was the Jamaican... :)

I happen to think Meb should be considered American because he is a citizen and did his training/development as a runner in America. I just find it strange he is not considered American for everything.

dcsxtri10

Nov 3, 09 13:48

Post #37 of 63 (531 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [bmcmaster11] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Looking at our current president, Its hard to argue against letting any-one be the president

But isn't he a Kenyan anyway ?????

Dave

(This post was edited by dcsxtri10 on Nov 3, 09 14:35)

phog

Nov 3, 09 14:06

Post #38 of 63 (504 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [dcsxtri10] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Looking at our current president, Its hard to argue against letting any-one be the president

As a somewhat colour blind reader, I can't understand either this comment or whatever the heck is in the pink.

Brian in MA

Nov 3, 09 14:13

Post #39 of 63 (491 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [STP] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"The best thing I read on this was the last sentence of the NYT article you quote. It was Alberto Salazar, the last American to win the NYC Marathon pointing out that he was not born here either.

Salazar was born in Cuba and moved here as a kid with his family, just like Meb.

The real issue is did the American running world produce a winner. The answer is yes. Meb came here when he was 12 and had not run before. He did all his training and development here. So, since he was developed in the American running system from day one, in the context of did an "American" runner win the NYC marathon, the answer is most definitely yes."

Well said, could not agree more. Wearing the USA singlet and then pointing to it as he crossed the finish line was awesome, showing his pride and a true sense of the moment. I saw him race the '04 Olympic Trials in Birmingham AL and he made a similar gesture as he proudly displayed an American flag after finishing second to Alan Culpepper to make the team.

"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

merlinkim

Nov 3, 09 14:26

Post #40 of 63 (474 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [FJB] [In reply to]	Can't Post

What rights are missing if you're a U.S. citizen who wasn't a U.S. citizen at birth (other than not being able to run for president)? I don't understand the the third paragraph of that comment.

athlete3

Nov 3, 09 14:33

Post #41 of 63 (461 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If anyone puts their hand over their heart, takes the oath to be a US citizen, and loves this country then they are more American than those who were born here and talk trash about it. Yes, he's an American.

eganski

Nov 3, 09 14:37

Post #42 of 63 (450 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks to you and this thread, I have had the Hulk Hogan theme song in my head all afternoon. I hope you're happy.
http://web.me.com/...My_Blog/My_Blog.html

jackmott

Nov 3, 09 14:40

Post #43 of 63 (444 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [athlete3] [In reply to]	Can't Post

so love is blind

could be a problem
=)

In Reply To:

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kosherdave

Nov 3, 09 14:43

Post #44 of 63 (440 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [furiousferret] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

To me, its about the program. Its not really a matter of citizenship but where they built the talent and habits to get them here. Meb followed the USA formula of distance running from Junior High on up. If a guy comes here after being trained by another country (see Freddy Adu), that's one thing but he developed as a distance runner in this country.

I think this really captures it. It's about where you develop the skill. In the US, in Africa, In China, on Mars, etc. If he's an American citizen who learned to run the way he runs in America, that's good enough for me. If he's an American but learned to run somewhere else, that's a different story, but he's still American.

Now, I can't find it now, but I SWEAR I remember seeing on the NYRR or ING Marathon website, they had Meb listed as American but had the winner of something else (the handcylce?) as an XXXXX (foreign, but I forget where)-born American. I think they pointed out where the other guy was born, but not Meb. Am I imagining this? I can't find it now so maybe I mis-read it, but that seems rather inconsistent.

burnman

Nov 3, 09 14:45

Post #45 of 63 (432 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [FJB] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Your statement implies that he's not a real American, when he meets all applicable qualifications for citizenship. Did someone say that non-Americans can participate as American athletes?

The American presidency is an island, and one of the few aspects of our socio-political system that places any relevance on origin at birth. But to answer your question, I think that any American that has spent their entire adult life (18+ y/o) as a citizen of this country should be permitted to seek the presidency. It could only increase the pool of 'qualified' candidates .... something we have too few of these days.

Sports are not inherently political and are intended to cross social/cultural/political lines.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hunting is only a sport if your prey is human and he shoots back.

vmac

Nov 3, 09 14:53

Post #46 of 63 (414 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [frogonawire] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I can't believe that the New York Times published that pile of shit. Is this manufacture crap what they call journalism these days? F--king nonsense.
Sweep the leg...

hgrong

Nov 3, 09 15:03

Post #47 of 63 (393 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [FJB] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Are you willing to say that people under the age of 35 are not "real" Americans? They can't serve as President either.

Or, to answer your question. Yes, I am fine with non-American's running for President. It would be, however, unconstitutional for them to actually serve as President because the Constitution specifically requires that the President be a natural-born citizen.

However, the Constitution does not require that of a Senator. They are required to be American citizens for at least nine years. And presumably the Founders believed that Senators were "real" Americans. So it does not make sense to equate the requirements to serve as President with the definition of "real" American.

Again, I say your argument is a staw-man. The requirements for serving as President have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone is an American.

JasoninHalifax

Nov 3, 09 15:06

Post #48 of 63 (390 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [I hate everyone] [In reply to]	Can't Post

how is the NYT story a "pile of shit"? It seemed like it was a legitimate story. Now, if you are talking about CNBC's editorial, then yes, it is a pile of shit.

____________________________________
"I'm a dirty girl" - Katy

STJay

Nov 3, 09 15:56

Post #49 of 63 (359 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [JasoninHalifax] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, it wasn't NYT; NYT was only reporting on the CNBC editorial. Which really wasn't an editorial; four grafs on the subject with zero research, it looked like a goddamn blog post or a twitter update. The fact that he is paid to write that little for a "column" is comical.

ericM35-39

Nov 3, 09 16:01

Post #50 of 63 (351 views)

Re: Meb - NYC Marathon - a "real" American? [hgrong] [In reply to]	Can't Post

every since I read a pamphlet about 47 commonly used fallacies to win arguments reading the internet has never been the same.

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