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Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene
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Tri N OC
Jul 3, 08 15:09
Post #51 of 84 (1579 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Learn]
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The problem with the 'sponsor picks' is that it sort of taints the Holiness of what the Olympic trials means to so many - an objective process for entry.
I think that is the problem identified in the OP, it is not an objective process if the committee gets to waive people in on appeal. I think track and field is mid-way between gymnastics which appears to be ALL about subjectivity and swimming where your time is your time. (even though there is politics in the relay selections).
That said, I think the system should have room for flexibility. After all, the goal is to get the best shot at olympic gold, not winning trials.
Trirunner
Jul 3, 08 15:11
Post #52 of 84 (1574 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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That is what I suspected. It probably did not hurt that Teter is a local, Nike sponsored athlete, for her to be reinstated in the finals!
ericM35-39
Jul 3, 08 15:16
Post #53 of 84 (1562 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Record10Carbon]
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yeah, it was SOOOO much better in the old days when athletes were like indentured servants and a bunch of old white men got rich.
mag900
Jul 3, 08 15:36
Post #54 of 84 (1526 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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the key phrase is "If there are not enough "A" qualifiers to fill the field size." there are enough As, so the rest of the provision doesn't apply. goucher is getting let in via the byzantine provision that allows the usatf make the field "more competitive" by adding a B person.
Record10Carbon
Jul 3, 08 15:45
Post #55 of 84 (1506 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [ericreid421]
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yeah, it was SOOOO much better in the old days when athletes were like indentured servants and a bunch of old white men got rich.
Wow, ignorant comment of the month. What the hell does race or anything have to do with not letting pro's into the games? (I cant wait to see where you take this - yes I did notice you are from Korea).
JimVance
Jul 3, 08 15:46
Post #56 of 84 (1502 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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This is a sad situation now. When athletes fear retribution from the governing body, it is dark day in the sport.
ARBITRATION HEARING DROPPED BY ATHLETES: Attorney Jonathan Little, who was hoping to face off with USATF officials this afternoon, says the plan has been dropped because he could get no athletes to step forward and initiate the proceedings with him. “I’m very disappointed by this,” says Little. “I thought we had an excellent chance to make the system better for everyone.”
Little says the athletes and their coaches were afraid to step forward, beyond the appeals process that had already failed them, because they feared future retribution from USATF. In the case of at least one college athlete, Little claims the school athletic department put out an order not to do anything that might interfere with Nike support for the department.
“The runners who filed appeals to get into the 5000 and 10,000 were told their appeals weren’t even considered because the field sizes were set and were not going to be expanded,” said Little. “However, they made an exception for one athlete in the 10,000 that required leapfrogging over other runners with faster qualifying times. We bear no ill will toward Adam Goucher. We just think they should have stuck to the field-size rules, which have been strictly enforced in other races, or they should have included the other athletes with times as fast as Goucher’s.”
Meanwhile, USATF has released an official statement regarding the Goucher situation. It reads: “Any athlete lacking a qualifying mark in any event is allowed, under USA Track & Field rules, to appeal their entry into the U.S. Olympic Team Trials. A two-person Entry Appeals Jury examines all such appeals and rules on them on an individual basis. Several appeals have been granted into this meet in events ranging from the javelin to long jump, decathlon to the 10,000 meters. Adam Goucher appealed his entry into the men’s 10,000 meters last week, prior to the men’s 5,000m final. He is a five-time USA champion on the track and in cross country, who was a finalist in the 5,000m at the 2007 World Outdoor Championships. It is not unusual for past national champions who lack qualifying standards to be granted entry into national championship events, and Mr. Goucher’s case is no exception.”
Jim Vance
jvance@trainingbible.com
http://www.trainingbible.com
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mag900
Jul 3, 08 15:50
Post #57 of 84 (1490 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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it's sad that those guys couldn't sac up and file an arbitration claim. it's not like a multi-million dollar nike contract would have been jeopardized. little basically was begging them to use him to file a claim but all of them passed. it's tough to feel sorry for people who don't stand up for themselves.
JimVance
Jul 3, 08 15:55
Post #58 of 84 (1481 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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it's sad that those guys couldn't sac up and file an arbitration claim. it's not like a multi-million dollar nike contract would have been jeopardized. little basically was begging them to use him to file a claim but all of them passed. it's tough to feel sorry for people who don't stand up for themselves.
That's one way to look at it, certainly. Another way might be to look at what their silence says. The fact they have worked so hard for something, and the opportunity to stand on that start line, only to have something seem so threatening they won't go forward. Not a single one of them. I know how much that opportunity would mean to me, and I'm trying to understand what it would take for me to NOT file a claim. It would have to be pretty significant. Perhaps there is a large piece of the puzzle we are not seeing.
Jim Vance
jvance@trainingbible.com
http://www.trainingbible.com
http://www.JimVanceRacing.com
mag900
Jul 3, 08 16:01
Post #59 of 84 (1459 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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it's not like filing a claim is anything like what a lot of athletes in the past have faced. jackie robinson comes to mind. i think that they just don't have balls. a lot of people don't. here's the list:
Joe Driscoll ZAP Fitness
Rod Koborsi unattached / Reebok
Washington, DC 28:30.03 28:30.03
Joshua Moen unattached / Brooks
Readlyn, IA 28:31.08 28:31.08
James Strang University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
Fayetteville, AR 28:31.33 28:31.33
Jeremy Johnson University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 28:33.08 28:33.08
Forest Braden Team Indiana Elite
Bloomington, IN 28:35.36 28:35.36
Michael Eaton University of Louisville
Bowling Green, KY 28:41.96 28:41.96
note to self: none of them will have a chapter written on them in the next revision of Profiles in Courage.
JimVance
Jul 3, 08 16:05
Post #60 of 84 (1446 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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Mag900, your opinion is certainly your right. However, I would think it best if you are going to list the names of these individuals out on this forum, and make statements about their character, courage, balls, etc, that YOU at least have the courage to NOT do it anonymously.
Just my thoughts.
Jim Vance
jvance@trainingbible.com
http://www.trainingbible.com
http://www.JimVanceRacing.com
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 16:11
Post #61 of 84 (1431 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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I see your point, but in the past the interpretation was always that a non competitive field was one where vbery few A's were in. At no time in the past was a field full of A qualifiers deemed non competitive.
Frankly I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't bitch nearly a much if USATF stated that Nike donates a ton of money to track and the OG so they are giving the athletes some sponser exemptions. At least it would be honest.
Styrrell
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 16:15
Post #62 of 84 (1422 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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Certainly a college athlete being threatened by his school is a pretty big sword.
Not saying I agree, but if I had no plans of running post college and was on scholarship I'd be leery of giving that up.
Styrrell
mag900
Jul 3, 08 16:26
Post #63 of 84 (1405 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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where do you get that schools were threatening athletes?
honestly, track is the sport with the weakest possibilities of retribution. if you run fast, you will succeed as the clock doesn't lie. the same cannot be said for all sports, like baseball or football, where guys who should have been playing were blackballed out of their leagues (eg, canseco, bonds or jeff george).
monty
Jul 3, 08 16:26
Post #64 of 84 (1405 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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The fact they have worked so hard for something, and the opportunity to stand on that start line, only to have something seem so threatening they won't go forward.\\
Here's what I think their mindsets are in this mess. They made the olympic trial standard, but none of the guys has better than a .1% chance of qualifying. SO they can push their case, alienate USATF and some major sponsors, all for just being able to run in the tirals, and probably get top 20 at best, more likley worse. It is the same in swimming, there are a handfull in the distance events that have a chance, and you can usually name the 5 or 6 that will actually qualify. In the end, there just was no upside for these guys to push the suit, so I understand completely. And from the sounds of it, Goucher filed his appeal awhile back, and none of these guys did as I understand it. SO he went for it early, got the ok, and now there is the bitching and moaning about his case. Not that it was not legit bitching, but now that the hammer has come down, the risk/reward ratio has gone bye bye.....
mag900
Jul 3, 08 16:38
Post #65 of 84 (1379 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [monty]
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i completely agree with monty. none of those guys has a snowball's chance in hell of making the team so they most likely concluded that they could petition, get in, possibly piss off sponsors, definitely piss off the usatf and then definitely get killed in the race.
goucher did do everything on the up-and-up (likely with nike lawyers running the show), petitioned awhile ago and was cleared before the trials started. shame on the others for not petitioning. what's the downside in petitioning to get into a race that isn't full??? a couple of guys got into the us oly marathon trials with times slightly slower than the standard (like 10 seconds). it never hurts to ask...
indytri
Jul 3, 08 17:50
Post #66 of 84 (1298 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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i completely agree with monty. none of those guys has a snowball's chance in hell of making the team so they most likely concluded that they could petition, get in, possibly piss off sponsors, definitely piss off the usatf and then definitely get killed in the race.
goucher did do everything on the up-and-up (likely with nike lawyers running the show), petitioned awhile ago and was cleared before the trials started. shame on the others for not petitioning. what's the downside in petitioning to get into a race that isn't full??? a couple of guys got into the us oly marathon trials with times slightly slower than the standard (like 10 seconds). it never hurts to ask...
Ahhhhh according to the info at least some of them did petition to get in and were denied.
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 18:28
Post #67 of 84 (1242 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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Post #66. As I stated if your a college athlete on scholarship with no real ambition to ruyn after school, the threat to your scholarship is pretty strong. I don't know if thats the exact case here, or even if the article I cited is correct but its plausable.
I'm not saying that Goucher is wrong, but its silly to have over 200 pages of compeitition rules and pretty stric guideline aboput how to get in, when the real rule as obviously applied here, is Nike athlete in, non Nike athlete out.
Styrrell
mag900
Jul 3, 08 18:45
Post #68 of 84 (1210 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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i still don't know what the threat is. the school would want the athlete in the finals and the school isn't beholden to the usatf. a coach or AD isn't going to yank a scholarship because one of their athletes filed an arbitration brief to get into the oly trials 10k final. that's ridiculous.
i don't have a problem with goucher getting let in, but, i agree that the usatf just should have been a lot more transparent and said upfront what it was doing. hiding the start lists until 2 days ago was very dubious behavior.
Learn
Jul 3, 08 22:17
Post #69 of 84 (1071 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Tri N OC]
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"After all, the goal is to get the best shot at olympic gold, not winning trials."
And no more objective way to determine this than by winning an actual trial that is close in time to the games. No waving. No subjectivity.
If someone is injured and can't perform in the trial, they lack the strenght/health/LUCK that is required to do well in the Olys.
To quote US skating legend Brian Boitano: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes once in a lifetime, yo!"
styrrell
Jul 4, 08 10:44
Post #70 of 84 (878 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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The threat is Goucher is a NIKE athlete. Joe College gets skipped over at NIKEs request, or the USATF just knows that NIKE want s Goucher in. Joe College cries bullshit and threatens to sue, creating a huge stink. NIKE donates big buck to Joe College' college. Joe College's College tells him to not create a stink or his scholarship is in jeopardy.
Thats what the original artical was referring to. Wether or not it happened I have no way of knowing.
My main problem with petitioning you way in and making sponser deals is where does it stop. If Goucher comes in third then forth got reamed.
Meb missed a lot of training this year. He's is a proven big Marathon runner. Whereas Brian Sell probably had the biggest race of his career to make the team. Assuming Meb is now healthy he is much more likely to medal. What is stopping the committee from putting him on the team instead of Sell?
Styrrell
fbrissette
Jul 4, 08 11:51
Post #71 of 84 (818 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Learn]
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To quote US skating legend Brian Boitano: "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow, this opportunity comes once in a lifetime, yo!"
Brian Boitano ??????
Francois in Montreal
Learn
Jul 4, 08 19:47
Post #72 of 84 (694 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [fbrissette]
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Yes.
Uncle Phil
Jul 4, 08 22:00
Post #73 of 84 (639 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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Guess Goucher showed that he was decently race fit after all.
mag900
Jul 5, 08 7:05
Post #74 of 84 (543 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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talk about hyperbole. which school does nike "donate big bucks" to? before making ridiculous statements like this, why don't you do a little research regarding how colleges face shoe companies. moreover, are you sure that of the 7 that actually are in college, nike even has a relationship with their respective schools? moreover, do you even know how scholarships work? many schools don't revoke scholarships for any reason (mine didn't). are you sure that of the 7 that are in school and also covered by nike, they also have contractual scholarships that allow for the school to terminate them at any time for any reason? talk about a ridiculous claim.
it's a lot more plausible that none of these guys (not all are even in college) have balls. a lot of people don't and it appears that they aren't any different. it also didn't help that the usatf didn't release the start lists until mid week this week so it was hard to scramble at the last minute. had the usatf released the start lists 2 weeks ago, like they should have, i think that the 7 would have had enough time to ruminate on their situations and mounted a losing arbitration case.
do you even follow us running? sell was one of the favorites in the us oly marathon trials and just missed the team in 2004. how is meb much more likely to medal than sell when sell easily beat him in the trials and, 7 months later, meb got his clock cleaned in the 10k. the year is 2008 not 2004.
all of this gouchergate nonsense wound up being ridiculous as goucher not only showed that he should have been in the race but he also nearly made the team. there's a reason why he is one of america's best distance runners over the past 25 years. had 25-31 been added, we just would have had 7 more guys getting lapped and in the way of the race.
tribreck
Jul 5, 08 7:27
Post #75 of 84 (513 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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Mag900, your opinion is certainly your right. However, I would think it best if you are going to list the names of these individuals out on this forum, and make statements about their character, courage, balls, etc, that YOU at least have the courage to NOT do it anonymously.
Just my thoughts.
Amen.
And, being an ex-Buff, congrats to Mr. and Mrs. Goucher. Sub-28 and 7th place for Adam and a 5k final win for the missus. Not too shabby.
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