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Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene
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mag900
Jul 3, 08 12:32
Post #26 of 84 (1835 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [NYCTri]
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Rupp and Rohinsky running the 5K prelims with no intention of running the final is just wrong. Reward some other athlete who busted his ass for the last 10years or so with a chance in the trials. Don't even get me started on Rupp sprinting for the win in the prelim round and raising the number 1 salute.
JW
why is it just wrong to have 2 guys who qualified for the 5k run in the 5k??? did you have a problem with ritz jogging part of the 10k in athens? if rupp wants to be a loser celebrating a "win" in a 5k heat, that's his problem.
monty
Jul 3, 08 12:34
Post #27 of 84 (1822 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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Isn't the 10k a time final?? Maybe I'm wrong here, but if it is, then having heats would make everyone run it twice, and that is too much to ask I believe. Fill me in on the procedure for the 10k trials here...
mag900
Jul 3, 08 12:38
Post #28 of 84 (1815 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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why are you claiming that the rules aren't being followed? there is a provision that allows for the field to be expanded to make the field more competitive so the rules actually are being followed. you might not like the rules -- but that's a different story -- but they are being followed.
any idea what goucher's running pedigree is? what about that of, say, driscoll? it's not even close. goucher is one of america's best 5k/10k runners ever with prs of 13:10 and 27:59 and he is a former olympian. it's not like they are letting him on the team -- they just are letting him in the race and he is going to have to run the A AND come in the top 3 to make the team. if you watched the 5k, there's no way that he is going to do that so all of this is moot.
mag900
Jul 3, 08 12:45
Post #29 of 84 (1784 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [monty]
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Isn't the 10k a time final?? Maybe I'm wrong here, but if it is, then having heats would make everyone run it twice, and that is too much to ask I believe. Fill me in on the procedure for the 10k trials here...
the 10k is a final at the us olympic trials. i just looked at the beijing schedule and it is a final only there as well so i guess that us is trying to replicate that format. even with just a final, you can pack a lot of people on that track. the field easily could go to 36.
Learn
Jul 3, 08 12:49
Post #30 of 84 (1766 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Tri N OC]
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Ah yes, I can't wait to see someone in a Ronald McDonald costume with the 24 inch shoes getting into the starter blocks.
The problem with the 'sponsor picks' is that it sort of taints the Holiness of what the Olympic trials means to so many - an objective process for entry.
The IM sponsor slots are kind of a joke and the lottery/military/etc types are running a VERY different race than everyone else who qualified.
monty
Jul 3, 08 12:52
Post #31 of 84 (1748 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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That's what I thought, so your heat proposal would not be pratical. And then you have to ask yourself, how many guys do you need to get the best 3??? How many is too many, and crowds the track for no gain towards selecting the top 3?? I think personally 36 is too many, in fact, 26 is probably too many. I do like the extra two add on though. Just like I said before, it gives a small out for anyone that might get top 3, but had some unforseen problems during the year. You just have to hope that those picks are not political, and stir up the hornets nest.....
sdmike
Jul 3, 08 12:53
Post #32 of 84 (1744 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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What seemed a little whacky to me was the girl who finished 3rd in the 10K might not have gone to the olympics because of some previous qualifying time. And the 4th place (or 5th?) girl who did have a qualifying time could have gone to the olympics despite having placed out of the top 3. Then on the last lap or so, the 3rd place girl kicked it in gear and managed to make the trials final her qualifying race.
Is this qualifying time a USAT thing or an Olympic standard?
mag900
Jul 3, 08 12:58
Post #33 of 84 (1723 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [sdmike]
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olympic standard. if you want to send 3 people, then all have to have the A standard. the women's 800m was just the opposite -- 1, 2 and 4 had the A but 3 didn't. 3 is back home dusting off her resume. now 3 and 4 got a free pass to the final because they were tripped in the semis, but that is another story.
btw, this is the first year that you need the A either before the trials or in the trials. in the past, anyone in the top 3 without the A had about a month after the trials to go chase the A standard in europe. some got it and some didn't. supposedly china was giving countries a hard time about visas so that's why the us oly committee decided on this change. it makes the races go faster...
monty
Jul 3, 08 12:58
Post #34 of 84 (1718 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [sdmike]
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girl who finished 3rd in the 10K might not have gone to the olympics because of some previous qualifying time\\\
The girl in the 10 k actually made the time, so it became moot there, but in the 800 I think, that exact scenario played out. 3rd across the line didn't have the A standard, but 4th did, so 4th got the slot. 1 1/2 seconds slower and the 3rd in the 10k would have been exactly the same. ANd those are olympic standards they have to meet, keeps the games from having countries sending just their best, and not world class quality athletes.....
Learn
Jul 3, 08 13:03
Post #35 of 84 (1697 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [sdmike]
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It's an olympic thing. Each nation is guaranteed at least one slot if that person meets the B standard, but beyond that they can only send people who have achieved an A standard.
In African nations, it doesn't even come up because there may be 100 people that have the standard in these long and middle-distance races.
In the US, you never hear it discussed in the sprint distances because nearly everyone has it.
There is also an internal, US trials A/B status that determines if you are qualified to participate in the trials.
mag900
Jul 3, 08 13:06
Post #36 of 84 (1684 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [monty]
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here's the usatf release from today:
“Any athlete lacking a qualifying mark in any event is allowed, under USA Track & Field rules, to appeal their entry into the U.S. Olympic Team Trials. A two-person Entry Appeals Jury examines all such appeals and rules on them on an individual basis. Several appeals have been granted into this meet in events ranging from the javelin to long jump, decathlon to the 10,000 meters. Adam Goucher appealed his entry into the men’s 10,000 meters last week, prior to the men’s 5,000m final. He is a five-time USA champion on the track and in cross country, who was a finalist in the 5,000m at the 2007 World Outdoor Championships. It is not unusual for past national champions who lack qualifying standards to be granted entry into national championship events, and Mr. Goucher’s case is no exception.”
Devlin
Jul 3, 08 13:38
Post #37 of 84 (1625 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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Rupp and Rohinsky running the 5K prelims with no intention of running the final is just wrong. Reward some other athlete who busted his ass for the last 10years or so with a chance in the trials. Don't even get me started on Rupp sprinting for the win in the prelim round and raising the number 1 salute.
JW
why is it just wrong to have 2 guys who qualified for the 5k run in the 5k??? did you have a problem with ritz jogging part of the 10k in athens? if rupp wants to be a loser celebrating a "win" in a 5k heat, that's his problem.
It's wrong because they KNOW they have no intention of running the 5k at the Olympics. The field is set at x people, so there are two people sitting on the sidelines watching that have NO shot, because a couple 10k'ers wanted a warmup race. If they don't run the 5k just for giggles, then two other people at least get their chance to bust a big one and make the team.
John
I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]
Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars
mag900
Jul 3, 08 13:51
Post #38 of 84 (1602 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Devlin]
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then those 2 should have run faster. breaking 14 minutes isn't that much to ask for entry into the oly trials 5k finals. please.
JoeO
Jul 3, 08 14:17
Post #39 of 84 (1561 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [smtyrrell99]
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Goucher was told prior to the 5k that he would be in the 10. He quit the 5k when he knew he wouldn't qualify to save himself. If he isn't let in now he could assert that he would've run the 5 differently
Styrrell
Goucher was not going to make it in the 5k. He admitted that himself. He had to get the Olympic Standard and he knew he could not make it. Dropping out of the 5k was not a sacrifice in any sense except that of pride.
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 14:30
Post #40 of 84 (1512 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Trirunner]
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There is precedent, but typically its when a runner cuts someone off illegally, rather than two people bumping asnd falling on a track. This one was gray.
Styrrell
NYCTri
Jul 3, 08 14:32
Post #41 of 84 (1499 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [fenack]
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My problem with Rupp is that in HS and the year in between HS and when he started running for Oregon he had all kinds of things given to him that would have cost other runners money. he slept in an oxygen tent, he was given free training time at Nike HQ among other things. If any non-nike athlete did that they would be ineligible for NCAA competition.
JW
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 14:33
Post #42 of 84 (1495 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [monty]
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10k heats have been run in major championships in the past.
Styrrell
mag900
Jul 3, 08 14:35
Post #43 of 84 (1487 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [NYCTri]
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you aren't alone in not liking rupp for sketchy things with nike. regardless, he had every right to run the 5k semis and every right to bail on the finals.
Xterraguy15-19
Jul 3, 08 14:35
Post #44 of 84 (1487 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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I think Goucher should've just gone with vaughn and pushed the pace right from the beginning (which might've scared the pack a little more). He knew he didn't have the A standard, he knew he would have to run fast to get it. It just seems to me that he was kinda dividing his eggs between the 5 and the 10. If you ask me, its the friggin olympic trials. You throw all your eggs into one basket because it's the best in america ur goin up against.
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"I decided to do this race two months ago..."
Xterra World Champion Ruben Ruzafa during a post race interview
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 14:36
Post #45 of 84 (1484 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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The rules are they can let in more than the A but in order of there qualifying times, 6-7 guys had faster times than Goucher. Thats the rule that is being broken.
Styrrell
Xterraguy15-19
Jul 3, 08 14:39
Post #46 of 84 (1469 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [Xterraguy15-19]
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oh yeah and I think Vaughn is a badass. He definitely looks like he went through 5 years on the wetmore plan. I certainly aspire to look like that on race day. My one problem?
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"I decided to do this race two months ago..."
Xterra World Champion Ruben Ruzafa during a post race interview
mag900
Jul 3, 08 14:40
Post #47 of 84 (1465 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [styrrell]
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the rule is NOT that the Bs have to be let in in order.
USATF Rule 11.3 (b) says that the Trials can add extra athletes “to make a competitive field.” the question is how does someone with a slower seed time make the field more competitive than someone with a faster seed time? the usatf basically said that goucher has been a star for over 10 years and it thinks that adding him, despite him not being able to run a competitive 5k 3 days ago, makes the field more competitive. it's not going to matter because he won't go top 3 with an A.
Slowman
Jul 3, 08 14:41
Post #48 of 84 (1460 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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the two speedworkers could've run the race and stepped off the track just before the finish. they get in their speedwork, they let a couple of lesser guys have the chance to run in a trials final. but if you're an asshole, then you run through the finish. what makes them not assholes is if they reasonably thought that their stated intention to not start the final would mean that the other two runners would get in on a "rolldown." apparently that is not going to happen.
in my junior year in high school, i ran in what we in california call CIF championships, which are the championships in various regions that qualify you for california's state t&f championships. i got to run in that CIF championship race after finishing 5th in the mile in the prelim race, tho only the top 4 qualified for CIF finals. the guy who won the prelim race stated his intention to not run the mile at CIF finals (so as to focus on the 2-mile), so i got in on the rolldown.
my qualifying time of 4:33 was 17th out of the 18 in the race. my PR of 4:27 was 16th best out of the 18 in the race. only the top 3 in the race qualified for the california state meet. true to form, i was 17th place after the first lap. but i ended up in 3rd place at the end of the race, in 4:19, and accordingly i qualified for and ran in the state meet. so, i'm biased. i know that anything can happen. i'd like to see those other two guys run in the final. absent any information that would grant me another view, i'll be rooting for R and R to crash out in their 10,000 race.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
styrrell
Jul 3, 08 14:48
Post #49 of 84 (1437 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [mag900]
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From the competiton rules,
http://www.usatf.org/...ry/help/statuses.asp
In events where there are "A" and "B" standards, athletes who have met the "B" standard are listed as "provisional." If there are not enough "A" qualifiers to fill the field size, only then will "B" qualifiers who have declared be offered entry into the meet
in performance rank order
.
Styrrell
JTRock
Jul 3, 08 14:51
Post #50 of 84 (1428 views)
Re: Major political storm brewing at US Olympic Trials - Eugene [JimVance]
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Sounds alot like USAT's Olympic trials routine. NO LOGIC.
Jimmy Archer
Pro Triathlete/Coach/Freelance Writer
http://jimmyarcherracing.blogspot.com
www.jimmyarcher.com
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