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Post deleted by CURRY

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jonnyo

Aug 26, 08 9:39

Post #51 of 268 (3571 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [justhavefun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Matt you sure rode very clean and was a good exemple out there of good spormanship and trying to break away,.... keep thegood work....
Jonathan Caron
Professional Triathlete and Coach
jonnyoworld.blogspot.com

tri4balance

Aug 26, 08 9:40

Post #52 of 268 (3568 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree Steve - that is a huge can of worms isnt it. I struggle with this one - these IM races take a hell of a lot out of a person and an athlete can really only dip deep into the tank a limited number of times. The prizes are so small in relationship to the total budget for the event. I have always said I would pay more just to see the prize money for a race increase so that the top performers are rewarded for their efforts. I would love to see young pro's have a go at this game - win a few bucks to justify their efforts to their friends and family and really see what they can do. So many people I talk to that are not really into the sport are dumbfounded when they here how little prize money or prizes are available at most of the established races in Canada. Certainly was way better in the late eighties. I would guess that not much will change though. Races are filling up fast with average AG athletes looking for the personal experience - not really racing - just participating. I guess they dont care how fast or competitive the race is.

h2ofun

Aug 26, 08 9:40

Post #53 of 268 (3567 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

From what I have seen posted on ST over the years, seems like a LOT of folks have no shame to get into
Kona, whether it is drafting or using drugs.

Dave
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell

VHS to DVD transfers
http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

Fleck

Aug 26, 08 9:41

Post #54 of 268 (3567 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [trvfsub2] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dev how bout 1k penalty loops..

I have always liked that.

This sitting /standing around for a few minutes, while it may be a time penalty, might actually be advantageous. Running an extra 1 or 2k BEFORE you start the real run, would be a time and physiological penalty. That may really get peoples attention.

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

devashish_paul

Aug 26, 08 9:55

Post #55 of 268 (3528 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

See post 7 in this thread.

I suggest a 400m "loop of shame" set up right outside T2...first infraction 4 loops (1 mile), second infraction 2 more miles....third infraction 3 more miles.

Guys riding clean are getting to T2 with shredded legs.

Guys drafting are getting to T2 with fresh legs.

They need their legs shredded. I figure running 3 extra miles (20-30 minutes) along with the accumulated fatigue before starting 26 miles, along with public shame in front of the fans in T2 should serve as a solid deterrent for drafting :-).

Running 26 miles sucks bad enough....running 26 miles after 2.4 miles swim, 112 mile bike and then 3 extra miles of running should keep things clean...

www.kestrelbicycles.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010

h2ofun

Aug 26, 08 10:12

Post #56 of 268 (3485 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dev, threads like these if why ST has its reputation. This is a BUSINESS. No owner of a business is going
to change anything when they fill up 1 year ahead of time. How many businesses do you know that can say that?
Talk is cheap. Just put your money where your mouth is.

Bottom line in any sport, you play by the "rules" that are being enforced for that event.

Dave
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell

VHS to DVD transfers
http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

bmas

Aug 26, 08 10:18

Post #57 of 268 (3469 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [h2ofun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Now, folks REALLY do not want a tough race. At the DU long course are Nationals at Auburn, the bike and run kicks
everyone's butt and there is NO drafting. But, guess what, not that many folks signed up since they knew is was a REAL
course. Now, Brad has put a bid in for having Nationals next year also, but if he does not get it, the reason will be
it is TOO hard for folks."

Wrong! Personally I love a hilly course, and so do many, many others - why do you think LP fills up so quickly?

And if everyone on ST always has everything wrong (except you), why do you frequent this site?

M~

Aug 26, 08 10:20

Post #58 of 268 (3463 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [bmas] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Then I have to wonder why Silverman doesn't fill out twice as fast as all the others? LP was hardish, but Silverman was far harder.
*****----------------------------------------*****
Interviewer: What's your prediction for the fight?
Clubber Lang: My prediction?
Interviewer: Yes, your prediction.
Clubber Lang: Pain!

h2ofun

Aug 26, 08 10:29

Post #59 of 268 (3433 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [M~] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Or why Auburn has never filled up.

Dave
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell

VHS to DVD transfers
http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

camelboy

Aug 26, 08 11:03

Post #60 of 268 (3379 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [justhavefun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Like you Matt, I feel as though I was listed as guilty because Scott chose to point out certain names (Ogden, Jonnyo, Kyle) as having ridden the course cleanly. So, because my name was not listed, should I feel proud of my race, guilty of my race, or not care what you think? From my perspective, I got a stand down penalty barely two miles out of T1 for splitting a pass between Jason Shortis and Gordo on a turn leading out of town and had to serve a penalty for this non-drafting infraction up ontop of Richter. You can ask Dave Cracknell, who I was chatting to while waiting for the volunteers to fill out my information, that this took far too long (a few minutes) but that I arrived to the tent in 3rd place and left the tent in 3rd place with no one in sight behind.

Earlier in the race, around mile 7 or 8, I saw you pulled over on the side of the road and you mentioned you had dropped a bottle. I didn't see you again until you put in your move at mile 95. Matt had broken away a few miles before that, Ogden broke away a few miles after that, and I broke away a few miles after that. So I'm not guilty in your eyes, I want you to know I rode alone for ~ 90 miles of the day. I did go through a bad spell during the out & back section, possibly suffering from going out too hard, but then again, I was very motivated to try to ride through as much of the race as possible (rode in 3rd for most of the day). I thought from the speed you passed me around mile 95, you rode a very nice race. But, that was the brief time I saw you out on the course. I just wish, if you're going to take your race report on a public forum, you should mention all names you are attacking (or not attacking).

Racing is not my profession, but I always try MY best out there.

Lars

Triathlete / Inside Tri / VeloNews

(This post was edited by camelboy on Aug 26, 08 11:22)

MeltingPot

Aug 26, 08 11:09

Post #61 of 268 (3359 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [bmas] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

"Now, folks REALLY do not want a tough race. At the DU long course are Nationals at Auburn, the bike and run kicks
everyone's butt and there is NO drafting. But, guess what, not that many folks signed up since they knew is was a REAL
course. Now, Brad has put a bid in for having Nationals next year also, but if he does not get it, the reason will be
it is TOO hard for folks."

Wrong! Personally I love a hilly course, and so do many, many others - why do you think LP fills up so quickly?

And if everyone on ST always has everything wrong (except you), why do you frequent this site?

If you think the reason LP fills up so quickly is because the course is hard, you are really out of touch with the reality of this IM machine. FL will probably fill up as fast as LP this yr (obviously has little to do w/ the course as CdA may even still be open - not sure), your theory behind that?

Floating Debris

Aug 26, 08 11:27

Post #62 of 268 (3306 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [MeltingPot] [In reply to]	Can't Post

http://www.ironmancda.com/entry.php

trackie clm

Aug 26, 08 11:28

Post #63 of 268 (3294 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [CURRY] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Slowman: Maybe Jay could do a story on why the rules aren't being enforced by the officials????

Or, since Jimmy and Paula post/lurk here, maybe they want to chime in?

clm

http://ironclm.typepad.com

devashish_paul

Aug 26, 08 11:42

Post #64 of 268 (3263 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [trackie clm] [In reply to]	Can't Post

To some extent, I think the officials are doing what they can with limited resources. It is up to the athletes to play cleaner. Do you really want a Kona slot, or PB, or a finish where you know that you broke the rules blatantly. Why not pop your EPO pill in front of everyone straight out the AMGEN branded container, or swim with a sign on your back saying, "Don't worry about me, I'm cutting the course. See you at the finish line suckers...."

I know that NAS sports loves mass starts, but in reality we already have wave starts with the pros starting 15 min ahead. Just start 20-29 next and then 30-34 and then 40+ each 5 min apart. That will take care of 90% of the drafting and then let the officials do the rest with some help from athletes playing honestly. We just need to decrease the density of the testosterone Age groups hitting the pavement at the same time (as Fleck pointed out)....having 20-49 emerge at the same time is asking for trouble. Then if this does not work, make more severe penalties....10 min first infraction, 20 min next (or 1 mile and 2 mile penalty run loops).

Sorry for derailing the OP's thread delving into the age grouper issues.

Dev

Fleck

Aug 26, 08 15:47

Post #65 of 268 (3062 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [h2ofun] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Bottom line in any sport, you play by the "rules" that are being enforced for that event.

Dave,

That's all fine and dandy, but what to do when the rules are asking you to do something that is impossible to do. Try getting out of the water with 100 other guys in less than a minute and you all head out on the bike at roughly the same time. Try and all get lined up and nice and sorted out single file with 7m( or whatever the distance is) between you and the next guy. Then hold that position, no moving, for the next 100K! :)

Good luck!

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

CURRY

Aug 26, 08 16:11

Post #66 of 268 (3040 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [camelboy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you read my post again,...you can see I didn't name my friend Jonnyo. J - love you man.

Anyways,...my point on this issue is that we really shouldn't be having to talk about this. As pros, we know that we don't need to hammer the first 1/2 of the race to still have a decent bike split anyways. Why don't we just chill out,...and spread out,...we have soooooo much room to cover,...we could each space ourselves out 100m if we wanted (exactly what Kyle did - kudos brother), take in our nutrition, relax and hydrate and worry about order later. The constant leap-frogging, and jostling for position...doing the 'i'm leading,...now you lead,...then I'll lead' thing just doesn't make sense if you're trying to race without a draft.

What would we all do in a world where riding within 50m of another rider actually made us slower? Do you think we'd slowly creep up on our competitors, and see how long we could challenge ourselves by riding in the 'difficult zone' (opposite of a draft zone)??? Hell no! We'd make sure we did everything possible to keep away from each other. We'd each ride our own race entirely dependent our own strategies,...the way Ironman racing has always intented to be.

http://www.bikeforest.com/scott

(This post was edited by CURRY on Aug 26, 08 16:14)

BIGZACH

Aug 26, 08 16:35

Post #67 of 268 (2985 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [rcmioga] [In reply to]	Can't Post

aerobike

Aug 26, 08 16:50

Post #68 of 268 (2950 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [CURRY] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Accusing practically the entire field of drafting without any evidence. It is amazing how many posters have apparently sided with you and seem to respect you for that.

To me, you completely lack class and sound like a whiny little b!tch. Seriously. Go cry me a river.

(This post was edited by aerobike on Aug 26, 08 16:50)

h2ofun

Aug 26, 08 16:51

Post #69 of 268 (2941 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Steve, very easy. I do not sign up for races like this! I do walk my talk with my money.
So, I have never had an issue in a race in my 12 years of racing. Life is TOO short
to bitch about something you KNEW was going to be that way before you signed up.

Most IM races are no longer races, just a big event. Nothing wrong with that and most
have a great time. Just not something I am interested in spending my few races I have left in me.
I would rather do the short stuff, be able to race every weekend, and if I get sick or something,
I have not lost my entire season for 1 race I planned for. Now, if I get into Kona,
yep, I will go have a great event, 17 hours worth.

Dave
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedwardcampbell

VHS to DVD transfers
http://h2ofun.net/...eoConvert/index.html

ShawnF

Aug 26, 08 17:08

Post #70 of 268 (2888 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, I was on course following the pro races and I saw a lot of what is being described. There were a number of guys out there riding too close and getting a free ride to T2. A couple of them went home with nice paychecks and a Kona slot. So, while you may think Scott is being a whiney bitch, I think he is doing the right thing by speaking his mind and calling out the athletes who are blatantly cheating.

shawn
AVIA Running
AVIA on Facebook

CURRY

Aug 26, 08 17:12

Post #71 of 268 (2882 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I accused people in that group (not the field), that they specifically stayed in that group by making a consious decision to conserve energy, seeking a specific and undeserved advantage. That I reckon, is as classless as me talking about it.

http://www.bikeforest.com/scott

SlayerHatebreed

Aug 26, 08 17:12

Post #72 of 268 (2872 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

"Lack class" then call him a whiny little bitch.. well played sir.

We're all sick of the drafting, he's calling out some pros for drafting. What's the issue? Are you living in some fantasy world where a decent amount of folks don't draft blatantly in this sport?

I don't see it as crying a river, I see it as addressing that 5 billion pound elephant in the room.

Go on brother Curry and thanks for the insight.

MuffinTop

Aug 26, 08 17:16

Post #73 of 268 (2863 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Accusing practically the entire field of drafting without any evidence. It is amazing how many posters have apparently sided with you and seem to respect you for that.
To me, you completely lack class and sound like a whiny little b!tch. Seriously. Go cry me a river.

Without any evidence? Did you miss the fact that he was right there in the middle of the pro race?
--
"Oh no, it's the dreaded Muffin Top!" --Mythbusters
http://www.awesome-software.net

newf

Aug 26, 08 17:19

Post #74 of 268 (2856 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Telling someone they "lack class and sound like a whiny (sic!) little bitch".... whilst posting anonymously is a pretty classy too eh? after two years training and living with my good buddy Scott, I know he genuinely cares about the sport... you find it "amazing how many posters have apparently sided with" Scott, they're sided with him for a couple reasons, for one, he's right...secondly, anybody who's been around the triathlon scene for the last 10-15yrs has come across Scott, aka the guy who can't stop smiling, and knows he busts his ass 30-50hrs a week at work, is married and still manages to train 20+hrs per week for a handful of races a year, and does an 8:52....so he's got no reason to make up lies about drafting at IMC. Put it together and you've got a hard working guy who knows what's right/wrong in the sport making some really ballzy comments that shouldn't go unsaid.... no need for anonymous smack talking...

Stay classy,

-Jarret Hann

CURRY

Aug 26, 08 17:20

Post #75 of 268 (2854 views)

Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

....that being said, I completely understand why it happened. I'm not without fault,...believe me, there was a true side of me that wanted to sit in that group too. If I depended on prize money to survive, it would have been the tipping point for me. The rules just need to be enforced, and may need to be change too.

http://www.bikeforest.com/scott

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