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IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught?
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Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 19:02
Post #1 of 172 (5006 views)
IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught?
Can't Post
GREAT race out there today. Some wonderful demonstrations of athleticism.
Some demonstrations of poor form as well.
Here's a little video:
http://clintlien.blogspot.com/
cyclonehockey21
Nov 23, 08 19:05
Post #2 of 172 (4983 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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O. M. G like i totally can't believe there was drafting on a flat IM course.
Grant
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cerveloguy
Nov 23, 08 19:12
Post #3 of 172 (4947 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Loved the comment "you guys are going on slowtwitch, smile" LOL!! In fact, double LOL!!
Fast&Crooked
Nov 23, 08 19:14
Post #4 of 172 (4925 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Just sad... Kona spots have become a runners race.
wimaboju
Nov 23, 08 19:16
Post #5 of 172 (4911 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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I love it! You should've had a sign.
The best pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die.-Pre
bad929
Nov 23, 08 19:17
Post #6 of 172 (4910 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [cerveloguy]
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I liked the comment to the guy off the back of the group, all by himself "Good job, honest rider"!!
fenack
Nov 23, 08 19:18
Post #7 of 172 (4900 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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sheesh.
Iger
Nov 23, 08 19:18
Post #8 of 172 (4897 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [cyclonehockey21]
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In a sport as competitive as ours there will always be cheating, but this type peer pressure will be useful in addressing the drafting issue.
Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 19:20
Post #9 of 172 (4886 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [bad929]
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I should make it clear - MOST people rode honest and despite the flatness of the course and the 3 loop format, there was plenty of room to ride a clean race.
sppnet
Nov 23, 08 19:22
Post #10 of 172 (4874 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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You just sparked a thought - The IM organization should have "red-light" cameras at various points of the course that watch for drafters and automatically distribute penalties to drafters. Honestly this system couldn't be any worse than some of the officiating out there.
Learn
Nov 23, 08 19:22
Post #11 of 172 (4874 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Too bad we can't see numbers at that resolution.
If you get numbers, post up some names!
--
Matt Braynard
Braynard WebDev, Inc.
http://www.braynardwebdev.com
If You Can Imagine It, We Can Do It.
Kevin P.
Nov 23, 08 19:26
Post #12 of 172 (4835 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Hey Clint -- nice footage. I also liked the shout out to the loegal riders. I'd like to see their numbers.
KP
ShawnF
Nov 23, 08 19:29
Post #13 of 172 (4807 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Dude, that is so awesome!
shawn
AVIA Running
AVIA on Facebook
Aztec
Nov 23, 08 19:33
Post #14 of 172 (4790 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Note that there was PLENTY of room before and after the pack to spread out. You can't make a case about it being too tight. All it takes is for passed riders to drop back they way they are supposed to and it would be clean.
To those of you arrogant b*stards who won't drop back when passed, go take up another sport.
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Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.
Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 19:37
Post #15 of 172 (4758 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Kevin P.]
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Hey Kevin,
I checked out the original footage, which has a much higher resolution but numbers still can't be made out.
There was another pack about twice the size. I wish I'd gotten footage of that one - 3 wide and 20 deep!
CL
no good
Nov 23, 08 19:43
Post #16 of 172 (4729 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Former rasslin' champion Nick Bockwinkle was known to say it was perfectly legal to choke an opponent up to the count of 4. It became illegal at the count of 5. So it was not cheating to choke your opponent for 4 counts.
The pack riding AG's in triathlon apparantly have that same mentality. It is "legal" to draft for 14 seconds. Trouble is, these same riders don't know how to tell time.
Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 19:44
Post #17 of 172 (4725 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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YES AZTEC!!! That was exactly what I was hoping people would notice! One of the other voices you hear in the video is
115intheshade. We both agreed, there just was no need for it. There was room - and the "lapped rider" problem is a non starter. If you're passing a guy on his second lap and you're on your third lap, chances are you're going 4-5 mph faster!
ija.z
Nov 23, 08 19:48
Post #18 of 172 (4695 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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The size of the pack is really quite disheartening, but the old pix of you further down the page are really quite uplifting!
Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 20:00
Post #19 of 172 (4640 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [ija.z]
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"Uplifting" is one word you could use. Another is - hilarious.
DaveM
Nov 23, 08 20:21
Post #20 of 172 (4569 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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That truly was a disguisting video to watch........was that pack at the front - in other words were they on their way to a Kona spot?
Paulo wrote about this state of IM recently and had some really great points about competition in todays IM branded events...you can read it here in his two part sequence called "Beating the Cheaters"
http://thetriathlonbook.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html
It really is too bad that people do not know the rules or have complete disregard for them......and then I'm wondering if they feel ok about their effort after the race or if they have this "emptyness" ............I'm guessing a little of both.
flying wombat
Nov 23, 08 20:41
Post #21 of 172 (4519 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Glad you posted that, and it was good to meet you and hang out for a while while we heckled the peletons.
Yes unfortunately that was one of the front age grouper packs. No attempt by athletes on the left to move forwards. I dont get it, if you are riding at the same speed you could still do a legal distance "paceline", but that would be much more work.
According to others it was just as bad on the Beeline.
Kevin
www.tri2bfitaz.com
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FIST certified fitter
clayton1
Nov 23, 08 20:49
Post #22 of 172 (4500 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Thanks for posting that,
After the video rolls for a few seconds, I noticed that is me, the very first guy (white rudy helmet, black tri clothing, my bib # is 556) leading that enormous pack out for a ride.
Had I known there were that many riders behind me I would have asked to get paid from each one so I can cover next years entry fee. It is very discouraging to see that and I rode a clean ride I can proudly say so at least this video helps justify my good feelings about my ride. I can't count how many times people latched on to my wheel and it did get frustrating. This is not a hard course to ride cleanly on, IF you want to.
On a side note, I had a nasty crash at the very last aid station when a woman veered into me. We both went down pretty hard but she seemed to be O.K. If by chance she sees this post I hope things worked out O.K. for you and you're alright!
kiwi.
Nov 23, 08 21:19
Post #23 of 172 (4417 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [clayton1]
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I worked the intersection of Alma School and McDowell and there were a few groups that I was a little disappointed to see, but these were mainly on the first lap. For the most part I didn't think the drafting looked too bad, given 2000 riders on a three lap course. I really don't think your 15 seconds worth of video (on a tigher part of the course) is a fair representation of what happend in the other 111 miles of the bike.
Writerguy
Nov 23, 08 21:28
Post #24 of 172 (4392 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [kiwi.]
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As I posted in a follow-up note - most people rode clean - it was easy to ride clean and I only saw one other REALLY bad group besides this one - though the other group was much bigger. There was a handful of smaller groups but as I say, over all, a pretty clean race.
Kensho
Nov 23, 08 21:31
Post #25 of 172 (4384 views)
Re: IM AZ Is it cheating if you don't get caught? [Writerguy]
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Well... some of the guys were close.. and certainly didn't look like they were passing any time soon... but tough to make a drafting call on that short video.
Still... I'm sure the drafting was bad...
I noticed the female pro who was BLATANTLY drafting at Soma had the slowest bike split today. Interesting....
I'd like to think that calling her out at Soma guilted her into riding clean today... but who knows...
(This post was
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by tuneoutthenoise on Nov 23, 08 21:35)
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