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Triathlon Forum
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How to actually race roadies?
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DuGuy
Jul 3, 08 20:07
Post #1 of 16 (872 views)
How to actually race roadies?
Can't Post
Okay peeps, need some advice. I'm a descent duathlete, always top 10 and 1st place in my AG more often than not.
I went to the weekly circuit race on the drag strip, and basically got served (as expected). I didn't drop out, but somewhere that I don't recall the lead 5 riders created a large gap I just couldn't close. I have a whole new respect for roadies, and with gas the way it is it looks like I won't be spending $150 every other weekend to go race (fees, driving 8 hrs, etc), so this seems like a cheap and fun way to keep on racing w/o hurting the wallet.
What I want to know:
Are there any tips on how to race these things in general? I got 6th place, but would have liked to done better. I have the strength (mostly) to keep up with the guys, and got the endurance, but I definitely lack the strategy and experience everyone else seems to have.
A few things I learned (very quickly):
stay with the pack (this is no solo TT)
draft to save energy
you have to be somewhat aggressive to keep your spot in the pace line
don't get dropped, and if you do, HTFU and catch them
anything else guys?
"I consider myself blinding fast. I am like a gazelle on methamphetamines that has been shocked by a taser. That fast." - unclerico
tegra
Jul 3, 08 20:14
Post #2 of 16 (863 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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1. you should *try* to be near the front 40% of the pack. the peleton operates under an accordion effect. the farther back you are, the more energy you'll needlessly waste speeding up/breaking/speeding up/breaking. also, the peleton tends to string out near the back, so you get a better draft up front as well.
2. always take your turn pulling at the front of a break. otherwise, people won't cooperate with you in breaks, and/or if you go off the front, people won't follow you because you'll have a reputation as a slacker.
3. go to local group rides and get good at picking a line and keeping it, handling your bike, etc.
el fuser
Jul 4, 08 6:06
Post #3 of 16 (703 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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L5-L7 intervals in training help a lot to
htfu and cactch them
DuGuy
Jul 4, 08 7:25
Post #4 of 16 (643 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [el fuser]
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What exactly are these (L5-L7)?
"I consider myself blinding fast. I am like a gazelle on methamphetamines that has been shocked by a taser. That fast." - unclerico
Record10Carbon
Jul 4, 08 8:54
Post #5 of 16 (567 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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Time, Time, Time...there are no "tricks" - soon as someone thinks they know a "trick", as a roadie I make them learn a new one. You need to learn to read people and and know their styles that is not something you are going to learn on ST.
Of course there is the "get out in front and drop your water bottle trick..."
SimpleS
Jul 4, 08 9:30
Post #6 of 16 (523 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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lots of good advice already provided, a few more from a relatively average exrider! :
make some friends in your pack, learn to work together and then learn to use them (as they will use you)
figure out who are the contenders, hang with them, check the parcours and anticipate where the break will likely to happen, have a plan yourself;
train specifically (high intensity x number of times and recover quickly) and learn to acclerate, smoothly;
dont snooze off, pay attention listen and watch for breathing, gear shifting, the general atmosphere of the pack (sometimes you can feel the tension rise);
the heart rate is irrelevant - use everything you have to hang with the pack or the break, especially if the break looks likely to be the one, finishing is not that relevant, finishing and contending is;
race lots and have reasonable expectations;
__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
G-man
Jul 4, 08 9:46
Post #7 of 16 (499 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [SimpleS]
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Practice a lot of sprints, jumps and holding as high of speed as you can for 1-3 minutes. Du and tri people are fantastic at holding a high steady speed. Bike racing often involves going from 25mph to low mid 30s mph in a hurry that unless you practice is foreign and hard to do..
The one piece of advice I have given to more people is to hang tough. Everyone is hurting when they put the hammer down. Sometimes if you can just hold on for another 30 seconds or a couple minutes the pace slows down. So hang tough and try not to get dropped. The other thing is learning how to relax in the pack and not expend any more energy than you have to.
sinkorswim
Jul 4, 08 9:47
Post #8 of 16 (499 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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work on high-end power. bike racing is usually decided by relatively short bursts of very high power output, such as initiating a break, bridging, climbing, etc. triathletes tend to train in the lower, steady power zones. After a solid base and a several weeks of LT intervals, work on anaerobic threshhold intervals and even 30 sec "jumps". The AT workouts are painful, but when combined with proper recovery, they really boost high end power. I noticed in one year away from bike racing to train for IM that my high-end power decreased dramatically since my focus was long, moderate-power rides.
Like the others have said, work on pack riding and positioning skills. The smoother you are in the field, the less energy you will waste, the safer you will be, and you will be better positioned to respond when attacks go. I've seen a lot of very strong triathletes get dropped in criteriums b/c they aren't used to cornering at speed surrounded by people.
Masters races can be safer and smoother than the open fields (if you're over 30) since most of the masters have mortgages to go home to and some young guys are willing to risk going into the curb for $20.
SimpleS
Jul 4, 08 10:02
Post #9 of 16 (476 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [sinkorswim]
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Masters races can be safer and smoother than the open fields (if you're over 30) since most of the masters have mortgages to go home to and some young guys are willing to risk going into the curb for $20.
might be safer but often times a lot faster!
Many good points - your comment about riding smooth is so right, and in terms of quick smooth acclerations this is partly a function of cadence. This is one area where I really had to work on coming from tris, the ability to roll along at 90rpm to suddenly hitting 110 rpm in a few seconds. The instinct for many is to change gear, but by then there might be a small gap already.
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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
remnfa
Jul 4, 08 10:52
Post #10 of 16 (432 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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The best way to get into it is to find a training series (often in the springtime- but you may get lucky) and race every race. They might be one every other weekend for around $20. By the time you finish the series you will have learned a lot and have great fitness to boot.
A couple random thoughts:
Stay in the first third. If you are in the back you are more likely to crash and you are subject to the pack accordian-ing (which wastes energy.)
Learn to corner, draft, and hold your line.
There is no getting dropped and then HTFU and catching them. There is no catching the pack. Well, hardly ever. So... don't get dropped. Ever. If you get dropped your race is effectively over (and that really sucks if you are in a long race and have to pedal it in by yourself. Crits have an advantage over RRs in this case.) This can be tricky, because what was the front third can become last wheel really quickly if you lose people.
Have fun, and good luck.
monty
Jul 4, 08 11:16
Post #11 of 16 (403 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [DuGuy]
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After you have mastered all the advice given you here, a couple of more things to think about. When you are in a break, or taking your turn at the front of the peleton, it is not a who can pull the hardest contest. Your instincts tell you not to be a pussie and take a monstor pull, and let's show these guys how strong I am, but override that thought. Take a nice steady pull, and get back in the top ten if it is a peleton, or fade to the back of the break and get on immediately. Never pull so hard that you cannot counter an attack right after your pull. If you are strong and stupid, that is where guys will attack you, right after your pull.
Other thing is to react instantly to whatever is happening. If you are 12 inches off someones wheel, then you fell asleep. You can hear when someone is attacking behind you, ramp it up at the very moment that it happens. A lot of people wait to see what is happening, process the information, run through the different options they have, and when they finally react ,it is too late. You have one option, go with the attacks instantly, and sort it out later if it was a good move or not. Like others have pointed out, it is not about finishing in a bike race, it is about being in the final sprint, either in a break, or the peleton. Be agressive if you feel that you are a stronger rider, you best hope is to limit the number you will have to sprint against at the end. Race as much as possible too, the learning curve is a fast one usually if you have the mind for bike tatics, and the hard riding done at the races will take your personal riding to a new level...
Have fun, bike racing is a blast........
Devlin
Jul 4, 08 13:13
Post #12 of 16 (314 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [monty]
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Awareness of the people around you. Once you get used to riding in packs, you can "sense" a little ahead of time when the pack is about to step it up. Get used to close quarters riding. If you've ever run middle distance track where your elbows are as much a part of the race as your legs, it's near to that.
john
I can't imagine what 40 strokes/25 yds looks like. No one jumped in to save you? [Katy]
Pain is Temporary...Glory is Forever...Chicks Dig Scars
sinkorswim
Jul 4, 08 14:22
Post #13 of 16 (251 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [SimpleS]
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I agree about masters generally being faster, but generally also smoother...generally not braking, accelerating as much as say a Cat. 3 race. A strung out race is generally a safe race than a stop and go bunched up mess.
One of the best pieces of advice I got when I was starting out was to SPIN. Use the small ring on climbs as much as possible and save your legs for when it matters. At the beginning of races the adrenaline is going and mashing up (short) climbs in the big ring seems effortless, but those efforts add up and kill the legs at the end.
Lastly, I was fortunate to get my start racing doing collegiate cycling and had teammates who eventually went pro and others who became solid Cat. 1s. Their wealth of knowledge was/is invaluable. Cycling can be a tough scene to break into (like triathlon), but getting on a club team is great for learning from others, as well as having teammates...bike racing IS a team sport after all, and racing on a well-drilled, unselfish team is serious fun.
SimpleS
Jul 4, 08 14:26
Post #14 of 16 (242 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [Devlin]
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If you've ever run middle distance track where your elbows are as much a part of the race as your legs, it's near to that.
yeah and a good way to learn that is to simple ride in a bunch but also close to you training buddies, close enough that you can reach over and mess with the buttons on their polar computers, or take the cookies out of their pockets - without causing a crash!
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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??
trackie clm
Jul 4, 08 15:05
Post #15 of 16 (222 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [remnfa]
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>>Learn to corner, draft, and hold your line. <<
If you don't read anything else in this thread. Read this 100 times. Then read it again. Especially the cornering and holding your line part.
clm
http://ironclm.typepad.com
(This post was
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by trackie clm on Jul 4, 08 15:23)
jroden
Jul 4, 08 15:07
Post #16 of 16 (222 views)
Re: How to actually race roadies? [Devlin]
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I can't stress enough the need to attack in a bike race. By attack, I mean making a strong and well timed spring from far enough back in the group that you are able to eithre get off the front of the group or cause a split within the group, or respond to something that happens in the race like a break being caught. The more you attack and learn to recover and attack again, the better off you will be. When you establish a break, work until you have a gap, then when the time comes attack the group to make it ever smaller.
When you feel bad, attack again. Since this is a training race, use it to learn to ride an aggressive race rather than sitting in for a field sprint at the end.
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