1. you have to learn to anticipate it so it doesn't just "happen"

2. When switching from big to small chainring it's a quick two step process if I am in a low gear, I usually up(?)shift (i.e, into a harder gear) the cassette two gears or so then immediately shift to the small CR

The biggest thing is to train yourself not to do it. If you know you can get over the hill just downshifting as you lose momentum, and still stay aero, you can stay in the big ring. If you have to come out of aero to get out of it, you should drop into the small ring a little bit before you need to. Do this by gearing to a higher gear very slightly, then dropping your chain to the little ring as quickly as possible. This way, you lose as little momentum as possible.

You don't need to HTFU, you need more practice. There isn't a certain gear when you change to the small ring as every hill is different and every day, you are different or your effort is.

I NEVER knew this. I have been changing the chainring and the back gear at the same time and it is never a good smooth outcome. I am always losing momentum on the uphills to other people! Thanks for sharing!

another good way of anticipating is to set get an idea of what speed cut-off to change between big and small rings. This is dependent on your normal riding cadence so there's no hard and fast rule. For me, anything below 30 km/h i switch to the small ring.

Kind of, but you have to use judgment of what's coming up too. I do most of my riding in the big ring from the 3rd cog on down.

IF I'm approaching a short hill that I can go up hard, I will stay on the big ring and downshift to the 2nd or 3rd cog. A short burst on the first cog isn't usually going to destroy your chain unless it is too short, but try not to do it often or for long. Your chain is more prone to breaking here.

If it looks like a long grade is coming up, you need to get into the middle of the cogs and onto the small chain ring before or right after you start the climb. Usually after you bottom out and just start upward is best for this. For most gear setups shift to the small ring and immediately downshift 3 clicks on the rear. This will get you close to where you were on the big ring. Then you can shift to bigger cogs in the back as the hill gets steeper and you get more worn out.

Experience and timing are important. It takes some time to figure out what you need to do, but it becomes automatic after a while.

I have LOTS of practice shifting. When living here you never ride more then about 1/2 mile without shifting gears. You'll need to learn to anticipate the grade and your speed and then vary your shift depending on how much longer there is to get to the top. I some times don't shift my rear at all when I change to the small ring, as its so steep that just the little loss in speed dictates a MUCH easier gear. other times I need to shift to 2-3 smaller gogs in the rear when I shift to the little chainring to amaintain speed.................it all depends on speed, steepness, distance remaining to the top..........etc.

I also....DO.........cross my chain. Its not that big a deal. This happens when I have less then a few minutes to the top and wish to maintain speed without any more shifting and knowing I won't need to shift again before heading downhill. Crossing over is not that big a deal as long as you don't spend hours cross chained.

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Paul

I ride big/big all the time. I don't think it is a big deal. On all the rollers I did today, I was in big/big frequently. I never do small/small, but big/big has never been a problem.

I also do a double shift when hitting a steep hill. I shift both the front and the rear at the same time, shifting to the small chainring while shifting down 2 on the rear. I rarely think about it, I just do it. I keep the limit screws adjusted close, which probably makes it happen.

Of course, I frequently run with scissors.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

what happens if you do spend hours cross-chaining?

I am glad the question was asked, I've encountered the same thing lately. And the fact that I've noticed it must mean I've picked up one tiny little bit of cycling skill :-)

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

My little pea-brained understanding of this is that cross-chaining increases wear on the chain and the cassette. I guess it could have a negative impact on power transfer. But all of this is opinion only, I've no facts to back it up.

I would think that cross-chaining a little is no big deal, but one probably shouldn't make a habit of it.

About the only bad thing is that it shortens the life span of the chain, cogs and chainrings. Look at the chain the next time you cross over. It'll have a nastly angle from the chainrings to the cogs and therefore produces more wear.

It will also increase the amount of wattage to turn, due to the bad angle. Its not all that bad and most people will never notice.

Again, its all not that big a deal. Lots of people think its a really horrible thing to do and you'll die when you do it : ) NOT

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Paul

I try to maintain an awareness of what gear I'm in.

Failing that I can tell when my chainline is getting too far out because I can feel the loss in efficiency and also hear the chain straining.

cross chaining on small chainring/small cassette gear, then shifting to big chainring, significantly increases the possibility of dropping your chain on the crank arm.

cross chaining on big chainring/big cassette gear, then shifting to small chainring, significantly increases the possibility of dropping your chain on the bottom bracket shell.

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"That night I had a dream. I dreamt I was as light as the ether."

As others have said, the key is anticipating your shifts and moving to the small ring before you have to. As others have noted - To avoid that "spinning out" experience you get when shifting to the small chainring, try shifting 2 gears harder in the rear, immediately before dropping to your small chainring in the front. This will put you in a similar gear to what you're already pushing and you won't suddenly spin out lose all your momentum. Now you can gradually shift to easier gears in the rear as you need to to maintain your desired cadence/level of effort.

It's all about time in the saddle; the longer you ride, the more you'll be able to anticipate what gear to be in and when to get there.

There are typically duplicate or similar gear ratios http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/. So unless you are lazy you shouldnt be cross chaining. If there are serious rolling hills, I like to get my speed up before hitting the hill. I dont use my 12,13,14 in my 39 and avoid my 21,23,25 in my 53.

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Re: Why do people that can't swim try to do triathlon?

FJB: Not to mention the number of people that can't bike or run....

Thats a matter of maintenace more so then cross chaining. Your der should be set to avoid the chain falling in either direction. It should not be able to do that. I've seen this happen maybe not even 5 x 's in 19 years of cycling. Thats way too small of a chance to "not chain cross" for fear of the chain falling off.

I stand by my earlier posts that people make way to big a deal of cross chaining.

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Paul

So the recommendation when bogging down under too high a load is to go to a yet harder gear first before shifting the front, in order to avoid excessive spinning? It will avoid excessive spinning, but that's not worth it to me.
For me, shifting the front is a soft-pedal activity in order to make it go smoothly, and (maybe because it is) there is no problem with overspinning. Because the shift on the front requires a significant rotation on the cranks to complete, it will be over and done with faster if performed *before* shifting to a harder gear on the back. Higher leg rate during the shift means shift completed sooner which means back on the power quicker, which is important when going uphill in order not to lose too much speed.

maybe someone set your bike up wrong, but i can shift both at the same time without a problem.

(or maybe you're running a mirage, sora or tiagra grouppo?)

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. What I meant to convey is that when I shift both at the same time, as I hit the base of a big hill, they shift mechanically smoothly, but I lose so much momentum that I always lose contact with the people I am riding with. I tried the suggestion of gearing up 2 in the back then gearing down in the front, in a race on Sunday and in a training group last night and it works really well - I lose very little momentum that way.

I have Shimano Ultegra and it is very smooth.

this is more or less what i figured out works for me through trial and error (also ultegra SL) - up 2 in the back, down in front, then up one or two more in the back if need be (running 50/34 compact w/12-23 cassette). basically the sensation is that it gets tough for a second, gets super easy as you shift to the small chainring, then adjust to ideal effort level. i don't feel that i lose much momentum, as i'm only going hard on the large ring for something like 2-3 pedal strokes before dropping to the small ring and spinning again.

smooth, and no chain suck.

cheers!

-mistress k

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ill advised racing inc.

Well not exactly, my suggestion was a strategy to avoid being bogged down in the first place, although I may have struggled to write it clearly.

What I meant to say was that as you gain experience you'll learn when an imminent shfit to the small ring is coming. By dropping to the small ring early/before you have to, and at the same time (or immediately before), quickly shifting a gear or two in the back, you can maintain virtually the exact same gear and pace. Now the front shift is done and as the grade continues to increase, you just keep moving to an easier gear in the rear as needed. My goal is to keep my momentum so I don't have to do a soft-pedal when the grade really gets steep.

Now I agree that whether you do the quick one/two gear shift in the back comes immediately before, immediately after or at the same time is irrelevant ad can be done according to personal preference, shifting performance or where on the climb you are. My point was that this allows you to maintiain roughly the same gear as you were in on the big ring.

I think for most people, this stuff all starts to come pretty naturally after enough time on the bike.

Okay, cool.
One other thought for hills: for a given steepness of hill, you lose a certain number of km/h every second regardless of speed. But the number of km/h between gears goes down as speed decreases (eg, 52x13 might be 44 km/h at 90rpm; 39x13 would be 33 km/h at 90 rpm, for a natural difference of 11 km/h; but 52x23 to 39x23 might be 24 km/h to 18 km/h, a difference of only 6 km/h). I use this to my advantage on increasingly steep hills: shift the back to an easier one cog at a time, then two at a time, then shift the front. One a sufficiently steep hill it works great. If the hill is not so steep, I might do this anyway for simplicity. If I know that's the speed I'm going to be going anyway, is it worth the double shift on the back? To make this work, you need to be good at estimating what your final speed/gearing will be. Also, it helps to have some cadence range when you play tricks like this. If you are strictly an 88-92rpm person, this may not be for you. :-)

I'm still new to cycling, so I don't really understand all of this stuff.

I assume that cross chaining means being on one side in the front and the opposite side in the back. Is that correct?

I am having issues with the chain dropping when I drop down to the small ring, 50/34 set up. I can't say that I know exactly what the conditions are that cause it.

I'm also having issues when I move down the cassette in the back. When I get to the 3rd and 2nd cog on the cassette the chain seems to know fully seat in and makes a lot of noise. Like it's stuck in between. This goes away when I drop all of the way down the cassette to the smallest cog.

I'm running full Dura Ace set up, so I'm not really sure what is happening. I just had it all re-cabled and tuned earlier this week. Not sure if it's just user error.

Anybody have insight to share?