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Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it?
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nproximos
Oct 3, 08 18:39
Post #1 of 35 (1710 views)
Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it?
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It seems like there are tons of people in this forum that are proud and loyal to their Hed 3 wheels. but not without good merit. they are fairly inexpensive compared to other options of race wheels, "bomb proof," have good data backing its aerodymnamics, and not to mention they look pretty sick
I tried searching any oppositions to this general feeling, but the best i found was a concern with certain types of forks, and the fact they cant be trued.
Why not choose this wheel? I'm not a physicist or anything, but the design doesnt seem best suited for a circular motion. I kind of think of wheel as a centrifuge that you might find in a microbiology lab. In a centrifuge you must balance the sides so the mechanism doesnt shake violently when operated. Maybe if it was a quad spoke it would be balanced.
Maybe I'm completely wrong. If i am feel free to correct me. I just want to hear the other negative position on the wheels.
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zipp
Oct 3, 08 18:47
Post #2 of 35 (1682 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I raced and trained on HED3's for many years. This year I changed to HED Jet90's for racing and training. The only down side of HED3's I've found are -
1. They don't climb really well. I live in the mountains and climb at least 2000ft per day or more.
2. They are not near as compfy as the Jet90's. The HED3's are stiff and ride harsh.
Paul
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http://casasedona.com
"Don't do stupid shit people" - Tom Demerly
ttx_tri
Oct 3, 08 18:49
Post #3 of 35 (1673 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Too heavy for climbing uphill.
Proud seller of 39 items in the ST classifieds so far
rickn
Oct 3, 08 18:49
Post #4 of 35 (1672 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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It is an excellent wheel, but it is not for everyone.
In high cross winds an H3 front can be difficult to handle. Which is unfortunately exactly where the wheel excels over other deep wheels.
There is a remarkable demand by many athletes to see actual wind tunnel data right now. Much of the data can be found by using the search option here on slowtwitch. All of it must be taken with a grain of salt. But what is being published is far more transparent than any other time.
Based on what I've seen, I'm purchasing a stinger 6 set this january.
FWIW I am willing to pony up $500 bucks to use a wind tunnel with some other individuals to do some independent testing. That said it'd have to be on the east coast, caused I'd want to be on hand to see it.
jackmott
Oct 3, 08 18:53
Post #5 of 35 (1655 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I was considering it, but the Jet90 is a great deal too, found a Jet90 used at a good price and snatched it up.
Would have taken an H3 if I found a good deal on that.
Rokko
Oct 3, 08 18:54
Post #6 of 35 (1651 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I had a set, but I could never get used to being blown around by the front wheel. I sold them and bought a deep front and a four-blade rear (Corima) and am much happier.
nproximos
Oct 3, 08 18:55
Post #7 of 35 (1645 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [Rokko]
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thanks for the quick responses.
any comments on the structural make up?
desert dude
Oct 3, 08 19:06
Post #8 of 35 (1613 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I watched a H3 fly into the back of a ford explorer at ~ 30mph. Flat tire, big dent on the ford, but the h3 not a scratch.
Brian Stover
http://accelerate3.com
zipp
Oct 3, 08 19:40
Post #9 of 35 (1551 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Totally bombproof!!!!!!!! I had a set that was 16 years old, the old Specialized model, and it was as straight and round as new, with literally 1,000's of miles on them.
Paul
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http://casasedona.com
"Don't do stupid shit people" - Tom Demerly
triguy42
Oct 3, 08 19:49
Post #10 of 35 (1526 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Honestly I have no clue. I bought a Jet60 because it was cheaper...then bought an H3 because it was on a great deal sale. I train on the Jet60 front and Velocity Spartacus Pro rear (30mm) so I am used to the worst case in wind steering. When I throw on the Renn disc and H3 it's easier to handle than my training setup, so racing in near hurricane conditions (GFT in 06) was trivial in terms of handling. When I was training on 30mm deep rims all the time front/rear switching to the Jet60 was a huge shock. I actually raced one GFT on the Spinergy Tilium (50mm deep) because I wasn't sure about handling the wind with the Jet60...now I laugh when I think about that ridiculous race. Today I'd race the H3/disc without even thinking about it.
Regarding some of the other points, I actually find the H3 to be less fatigueing than the Jet60. It's stiffer on big bumps but it has a LOT less constant vibration from rougher pavement. In other words, it rides smoother overall on an average non-pothole-y road. I still haven't figured out the whole "climbs bad" thing...
Charter Member -
HED Mafia
Drinyth
Oct 3, 08 19:57
Post #11 of 35 (1509 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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The H3 is a great, versatile wheel, but I don't think it's necessarily the best one to use across all conditions. The Hed3 particularly excels at higher degrees of yaw. On race conditions where yaw angles are low or where a rider can typically ride fast enough where he will never see higher yaw angles, it may be more beneficial for that rider to use a different wheelset (like a Stinger 9 or Zipp 1080).
I'm not sure I get the centrifuge analogy. The tri-spoke is perfectly balanced. Any weight that one of the blades potentially pushes outwards is offset by the other two blades pushing outwards in their respective outward direction. I guess if the blades were different weights or they weren't equally spaced from one another, it would cause an imbalance.
In any case, there are pluses and minuses to lots of wheels out there. There is no one perfect wheel for all conditions. That said, I'm very happy with my Hed3 wheelset. It works great for me.
ianpeace
Oct 3, 08 20:01
Post #12 of 35 (1503 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I used to own several race wheels - sewups, clinchers, disc, trispoke front, 70mm deep, etc. etc. Two years ago I liquidated and have now only a set of Hed Jet 50s and a Hed 3 rear. For road races I run the set of Jet 50s - perfect. For TT and Tri I run the Jet 50 front and the Hed 3 rear. What I like most is there is absolutly no question that I have a good balance in the wheel set - if I show up to a dead calm out and back the wheel set is pretty aero and I'm content. If I show up and it's a loop with mulitple cross wind sections I know that I won't be distracted with trying to keep the bike up right, I just just keep my power/focus/intention all committed on going forward. I love that Hed 3 and I'll never give it up.
Ian
Ian Murray
www.triathlontrainingseries.com a must see.
www.coachedrun.com/store/Marathon-1-P22C17.aspx used code.... ST108 for a free trial.
Meebo
Oct 3, 08 20:17
Post #13 of 35 (1475 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Why not choose this wheel? I'm not a physicist or anything, but the design doesnt seem best suited for a circular motion. I kind of think of wheel as a centrifuge that you might find in a microbiology lab. In a centrifuge you must balance the sides so the mechanism doesnt shake violently when operated. Maybe if it was a quad spoke it would be balanced.
Quote
I've seen plenty of airplanes with three and five bladed props so considering they turn at much higher cadence with no apparent problems I don't think three blades are a problem
1406racer
Oct 3, 08 20:22
Post #14 of 35 (1469 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [Drinyth]
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The H3 is a great, versatile wheel, but I don't think it's necessarily the best one to use across all conditions. The Hed3 particularly excels at higher degrees of yaw. On race conditions where yaw angles are low or where a rider can typically ride fast enough where he will never see higher yaw angles, it may be more beneficial for that rider to use a different wheelset (like a Stinger 9 or Zipp 1080).
I'm not sure I get the centrifuge analogy. The tri-spoke is perfectly balanced. Any weight that one of the blades potentially pushes outwards is offset by the other two blades pushing outwards in their respective outward direction. I guess if the blades were different weights or they weren't equally spaced from one another, it would cause an imbalance.
In any case, there are pluses and minuses to lots of wheels out there. There is no one perfect wheel for all conditions. That said, I'm very happy with my Hed3 wheelset. It works great for me.
I don't agree the the wheels are perfectly balanced. They are anything but. When I would hang the rear of my bike and spin up the wheel the bike would vibrate from the horible imbalance of the wheel and the heavy spot would always settle at the bottom. I rode the pair of them that I had for a long time and don't think I would want them again. Very poor quality overall and the imbalance is inexcusable. I replaced the rear with a Nimble Crosswind and a 404 front and think it is far superior. The Nimble is absolutely perfectly balanced and the finish quality puts it in another league by comparison as well as being much lighter.
applenutt
Oct 3, 08 20:34
Post #15 of 35 (1447 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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It's a great wheel, period. It's all over the Tour TT bikes, so you know it's not slow. You can't go wrong with them.
TYBRacing.com
Nacly
Oct 3, 08 20:48
Post #16 of 35 (1420 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I race HED tri-spokes on a Kestrel for many years, thinking that despite good training I was just a crappy bike rider. The only times I raced well with those wheels was on very technical courses. As soon as I got different race wheels my bike riding in races improved, quite a lot. What changed, me or the wheels? I'm still riding the same training times on the same training courses. I doubt I'd ever race a tri-spoke wheel again.
zipp
Oct 3, 08 20:57
Post #17 of 35 (1400 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [Nacly]
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Your eperiences mimick mine. I found the Jet90's to be faster overall then a pair of HED3's. "I" beleive it has to do with the comfort thing. The HED's are stiff and not real comfortable over a long distance, thus you move around alot on the bike. The JET's are more comfortable and thus you move around a lot less and maintain speeds better. "I" find the JETs are faster.....besides they are lighter and climb much better.
Paul
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http://casasedona.com
"Don't do stupid shit people" - Tom Demerly
ponyexpress
Oct 3, 08 20:57
Post #18 of 35 (1400 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Like many other posters, I ride a lot in the hills, like fast technical descents and the HED3 does neither well at all. An analogy I use is that they feel like pushing bricks uphill, and for fast downhills, I need a wheel with some compliance...kind of like a downhill ski bouncing a bit as it tracks down. The HED3s are so stiff and robust, they pretty much throw you around as they hit rough spots. Totally indestructible, really a great wheel, just not right for me. I'm riding Reynolds now and love them.
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swimfan
Oct 3, 08 21:11
Post #19 of 35 (1387 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Same reason why every body does not ride Cervelo
_________________________________________________
I know I can't spell... This is not going to be graded so I don't care about the grammar either...
nproximos
Oct 3, 08 23:14
Post #20 of 35 (1290 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [Meebo]
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i just figured 2 propellers on a plane was always easier/better?
i dont think this has to do with wheels or bikes but i found this interesting:
http://wiki.answers.com/...er_than_3_propellers
so it comes down to comfort and climbing.
awesome.
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CLA
Oct 3, 08 23:27
Post #21 of 35 (1274 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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Why not choose this wheel? I'm not a physicist or anything, but the design doesnt seem best suited for a circular motion. I kind of think of wheel as a centrifuge that you might find in a microbiology lab. In a centrifuge you must balance the sides so the mechanism doesnt shake violently when operated. Maybe if it was a quad spoke it would be balanced.
For what it's worth, I work in such a lab, and can assure that a regular centrifuge (eg <20,000 g or rpm) only needs to be balanced on 2 sides to spin smoothly, and only need to balance "ultra" centrifuges on more than 2 sides (eg >50,000 rpm). Can't offer much more info about H3's (at least only for a couple more weeks!), but if people find they are not balanced, it's not likely because of the spoke pattern.
Raul
Oct 3, 08 23:38
Post #22 of 35 (1267 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [desert dude]
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I watched a H3 fly into the back of a ford explorer at ~ 30mph. Flat tire, big dent on the ford, but the h3 not a scratch.
With or without a rider?
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zebragonzo
Oct 4, 08 2:06
Post #23 of 35 (1220 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [Raul]
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I don't want to ride them because I think that they look incredibly ugly (well on the back at least). I also race road races and as such I need a wheelset that I can use for them too. I've got 606s BTW.
THENICETWIN
Oct 4, 08 5:57
Post #24 of 35 (1105 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [nproximos]
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I heard right from Steve Hed himself that the fastest all around set up from HED, in a clincher, is a HED 3 rear and Jet C2 60 in the front.
Stipulations...
1) I am a small person and the front wheel will sail on me in crosswinds.
2)The new C2 closely mimmicks a tubular feel and performance
3)The ability to ride a smaller tire(21 vs 23) allows for a better "leading edge"
I had a set of HED 3's and recently sold the front wheel as the front did move in strong crosswinds(duh) I am getting the Jet 60 C2 front for next year. I was initially nervous about the balance issue and non adjustability of the spoked design. They seem fine.
Interestingly...Zipp and HED share some kind of patent on their wheels. Steve was very approachable and spoke openly about his involvement with tour riders and continued development of great and affordable wheels.
Tom A.
Oct 4, 08 6:31
Post #25 of 35 (1050 views)
Re: Hed 3 wheel- Why doesn't everyone use it? [THENICETWIN]
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I heard right from Steve Hed himself that the fastest all around set up from HED, in a clincher, is a HED 3 rear and Jet C2 60 in the front.
Stipulations...
1) I am a small person and the front wheel will sail on me in crosswinds.
2)The new C2 closely mimmicks a tubular feel and performance
3)The ability to ride a smaller tire(21 vs 23) allows for a better "leading edge"
I had a set of HED 3's and recently sold the front wheel as the front did move in strong crosswinds(duh) I am getting the Jet 60 C2 front for next year. I was initially nervous about the balance issue and non adjustability of the spoked design. They seem fine.
Interestingly...Zipp and HED share some kind of patent on their wheels. Steve was very approachable and spoke openly about his involvement with tour riders and continued development of great and affordable wheels.
Now, what the heck is THAT supposed to mean?
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