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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool?

ZippityDuDah

Nov 23, 08 7:35

Post #1 of 19 (736 views)

Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool?	Can't Post

So i was talking with friends about the Garmin forerunner 405. The features you can utilize with the data afterwards are pretty cool (interactive player that replays your run, with HR, speed, distance shown simultaneously, elevation and grade, even plug your course into google earth). But aside from the coolness factor, is the info helpful with your training? how do you guys use the data? I have some x-c skier friends who love compiling HR avgs and maxes after runs, plotting into their journals.

Just working on a christmas list, thought i'd get some feedback...thanks
_________________________________________________________________
"911 Operator: WHat is your emergency sir??

Someone call a whaaambulance, there is an AG'er here seriously injured and in great pain!!!!!! He doesn't get to go to Ironman......." ---Monty

mrtrik

Nov 23, 08 7:50

Post #2 of 19 (720 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Regarding the 305... I keep an eye on my pace, distance and HR during runs to make sure they are in line with my goal for that session. I use it on the bike to view my cadence, HR and speed.

I use it later via motionbased and garmin center to review my progress and trend over the year. See how I improve over specific duplicate efforts, races, etc.

I also use it to track my stats in general, because it keeps me motivated to see how I'm improving (lower HR, greater pace, greater distances...). I'm a data guy, and I like it.

ZippityDuDah

Nov 23, 08 8:09

Post #3 of 19 (700 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [mrtrik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

ah, the pace while running is a cool feature. does the 305 have the "virtual partner"? i think it's like the computrainer, where you race against a little dude whose pace you set beforehand.

i like the idea of comparing on identical courses to see how you're progressing.
_________________________________________________________________
"911 Operator: WHat is your emergency sir??

Someone call a whaaambulance, there is an AG'er here seriously injured and in great pain!!!!!! He doesn't get to go to Ironman......." ---Monty

Mike Prevost

Nov 23, 08 8:30

Post #4 of 19 (678 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Combine the Garmin with Daniel's VDOT pacing info and you have a powerful tool. Definitely changed the way I train. You simply cannot bullshit yourself about your runs (distance/pace) with that info. Great tool in my opinion. Heart rate is OK but pace is much better in my opinion. Once you start training with pace, you will see this immediately.

Mike

psychosyd

Nov 23, 08 8:33

Post #5 of 19 (670 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Honestly. The only functions I have found myself using are the distance and current pace. It is nice to have the pace on the harder efforts. I take it with me when travelling so I know how far I have gone.
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Casey

Nov 23, 08 8:34

Post #6 of 19 (667 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just another high tech gizmo.

You don't REALLY need it.
__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

trail

Nov 23, 08 8:35

Post #7 of 19 (667 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I find it very useful.

I would consider the Garmin Forerunner 50. Though the very low number makes it sound like it's just very basic and doesn't do much, it actually does a lot. I have one with the footpod and sensor, and I get bike speed/cadence running pace/cadence, and heartrate. All on a watch that doesn't need recharging (just change the batteries out about the same frequency as a normal watch). And it has the same sweet ANT+ connection as the 405. It's much nice than the USB dock or Polar IrDA stuff. I just wear the watch as my daily watch and all my data just magically appears on my computer without my doing anything.

And the watch is cheap enough you don't have to worry about it so much like a 405 - it's just a replacment for a normal watch. Got mine for $50 with the footpod.

As for the data, it's very useful. It's good for controlling pace in workouts. But it's also very good for race forensics - looking over an entire race and figuring out what went wrong/right.

tigerchik

Nov 23, 08 8:41

Post #8 of 19 (660 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Just working on a christmas list, thought i'd get some feedback...thanks

I'm writing my letter to Santa too! I asked for a Bob Marley "Upta Camp" sweater (say 'sweater' with a Maine accent), a subscription to Outside magazine... and some plane tickets. Santa and I are debating the last one :P

until you come into your soul again
we'll be the worst of best friends

(This post was edited by tigerchik on Nov 23, 08 9:32)

2wheels

Nov 23, 08 9:57

Post #9 of 19 (608 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have the Forerunner 305 and I'm addicted to it. Just got the foot pod so I can monitor run cadence, and also so I can upload treadmill runs into SportTracks without typing in my distance (ok that is a pretty weak reason....).

The Forerunner 305 is bigger but shows more data at once, and it's also a lot cheaper than the 405. So that might be worth considering. The virtual partner is very motivating - if you know the little guy on the screen is you from a previous run or ride, it's very hard to let yourself lose to him!

SportTracks is some great companion software. Upload your workouts into that and I can map my runs and rides, tell you how many miles I have on each pair of shoes, how many workouts I've done at the track, you name it.

But alas it is not all good news, as the Forerunner is not waterproof for swimming. And you have to recharge it, and if you forget to turn it off the battery runs down. And the altimeter is not barometric (but the Edge, the cycling specific model, is). If they ever release a Forerunner that's waterproof that will be awesome.

tigerchik

Nov 23, 08 10:13

Post #10 of 19 (590 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [2wheels] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

But alas it is not all good news, as the Forerunner is not waterproof for swimming.

pace clock ;-)

until you come into your soul again
we'll be the worst of best friends

140Ironman6

Nov 23, 08 11:30

Post #11 of 19 (522 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have the Forerunner 305 and find it very useful. I recommend it to everyone. It's packed with features and does not cost that much (as compared with Polar). I think Costco had it recently for 149.00 which is a great deal. I've got every run and bike ride that I've done for two years + logged with the included software and also with motion based. With Motion Based you can race yourself (dot race), check your mile splits, check elevation, heart rate......Really cool.

mrtrik

Nov 23, 08 12:43

Post #12 of 19 (473 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes, it has the virtual partner. You can also save courses or workouts and it moves you through them.... say you wan to do 6x1mi with rest... you can set it up and it will beep beep beep at you.

Have a training route you run and want to challenge yourself on it? You can use the virtual partner for that course, so it mimics what you ran then.... Fun feature. There's 2 ways to use the virtual partner. Say you want to do a 10k at 40 mins. Punch it in and go, but that doesn't take into consideration elevation, etc... But if you have a 10k route you've done before, you can recall it and race against it. That way you know how you are doing relative to the previous run at any point on the run. Make sense?

the thing is.... most people barely scrape the the tip of the iceberg with their garmin. Hell... my brother in law has one and after 2 yrs I showed him how to get the lap notification (basically so it beeps and shows you each mile split) and how to use it for multisport (with transitions).

it has so many features, that most people don't know about - all they use is the pace, distance, gps and maybe hr.

But I doubt they know you can set up HR target workouts so it beeps when you drop out of, or go above a certain zone... or that you can download other peoples times from motionbased for a particular course (say a running race, or ironman event) and go race against it...

It can also help you generate your own data for the computrainer - something my Brother in Law does do... surprisingly.

All that for $159. not too shabby.

Irondicknixon

Nov 23, 08 13:14

Post #13 of 19 (449 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I enjoy mine. I didn't use one forever because I don't like bulky things, but was surprised how light it was.

Side note go with the 305. Have had some customers not dig the touch screen/bezel.

Have also used mine in 2 IM's now, PR'd each one.

Richard Nixon
Fit 2 Tri Multisport inc.
Triathlon Products and Coaching
www.fit2tri.com
rich@fit2tri.com
Use discount code: fit2tri09

wannaride

Nov 23, 08 13:43

Post #14 of 19 (420 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [Irondicknixon] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The Forerunner 305 is a great training tool and I have not had any technical issues with either of mine (I keep one on the charger at all times) in a long time. I like having four data screens open at all times and you can't do that on a 405.

Now my Edge 305 is another story. It keeps turning itself off on long runs. Anyone want to buy one cheap? I may go back to using the FR 305 on the bike.

triguy42

Nov 23, 08 14:10

Post #15 of 19 (403 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [wannaride] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Why are you using an Edge 305 on long runs??? Smile

Seriously though I got an Edge 305 for the bike because I could download to TrainingPeaks and see intervals, etc. I used it a few times running to log speed and HR and got some great data off of it. It's really good for monitoring and maintaining a safe HR for distance runs, and great for adjusting pacing up hills. With it I found that I can sustain ~172-175bpm over a long period under normal weather conditions, but only upper 160s when it's hot out. I can also use it to avoid the "danger zone" of 178-180 which I can't sustain for more than a few minutes before blowing up. However it also helped me finally beat my old 5k best time by 30 seconds because I could see on the screen that I wasn't actually maxed out...even though my legs were screaming at me.

I like the Edge 305 so much I am getting a Forerunner 305 for running from Costco's sale. I also know a few guys that have a 205 and love them.

Charter Member - HED Mafia Mad

Lactone

Nov 23, 08 14:21

Post #16 of 19 (392 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [ZippityDuDah] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I bought a 405 recently and have run about 200 miles with it thus far. Like the Forerunner 301 or 305 it gives fairly accurate real-time HR and pace data (and distance obviously as well). If you want a GPS unit only for running, then the 405 is the best thing out there. It has the GPS receiver built in, so no need for an arm band GPS unit or footpod. It also can automatically and wirelessly upload all training data if you're within 10 feet of your computer. You also can wear it as an everyday watch. It's slightly bigger than the typical sport watch but not enough where it would look weird. The bezel is not as problematic as many people say. Granted, it's not as intuitive as the 301 or 305 buttons but it doesn't take long to figure things out. Also, you can lock the bezel during a workout to avoid accidentally touching it.

The biggest disadvantages of the 405 are:
1) only 8 hr battery life when in GPS training mode (it will die on most people in an IM race)
2) Not convenient to use on the bike like the 301 or 305. Although you can buy a cadence sensor and use it on the bike if you want to.
3) Takes a lot of menu steps to change sports from cycling to running (I'm not sure if there's a multi-sport mode that would resolve this like on the 301)
4) Some people say the numbers on the display are too small. I disagree and find them pretty easy to read - at a minimum, the top number is easy to read, and in most workouts you're probably just focusing on one variable (e.g., keep HR in zone, maintain specific pace, etc). You can change the order of the display to put your most important variable in the top position. Anyway, I don't have a problem seeing the smaller numbers, and my vision sucks, so this is probably not necessary for most people.

To summarize, based on the above, it's not a great multi-sport watch. Go with the 305 if that's what you want. But if you want it mainly for running and to wear to the office during the day then it kicks ass.

mv2005

Nov 23, 08 14:44

Post #17 of 19 (365 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [mrtrik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Re: the virtual partner... so as per your second example it DOES actually take into account your exact movements on a previous performance? BY that I mean, if you previously stopped for a 1min walk somewhere then you would go blowing past 'your former self' at that point in time? I've always just thought the VP worked out avg pace and held that steady regardless of (say) elevation, even when racing a previous performance. It would be good to 'race' against an actual real effort that has variations in pace.

mrtrik

Nov 23, 08 18:14

Post #18 of 19 (257 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [mv2005] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes... you can either race a predefined pace, or you can race a previous recording. So in your example, you would blow past that rest break.

I do a race every year (5 mi) on Father's Day. And every year, i put last years on there (it's always the same course). And every year I beat my virtual self :)

Edited for link:

Here's the manual
http://www.garmin.com/...984_OwnersManual.pdf

Go to page 24 about "creating a course" to learn how...

"Courses Another way you can use the Forerunner for custom training is to create a course based on a previously recorded activity. Then you can race against the course, trying to match or exceed previously set goals. You can also use the Virtual Partner when training with courses."

(This post was edited by mrtrik on Nov 23, 08 18:18)

Norm

Nov 23, 08 19:11

Post #19 of 19 (215 views)

Re: Garmin: just a fun gizmo, or practical tool? [wannaride] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Now my Edge 305 is another story. It keeps turning itself off on long runs. Anyone want to buy one cheap? I may go back to using the FR 305 on the bike.

Drop Garmin a note; they should repair or replace it (the turning off thing was a bug.) Also make sure you've got the latest SW