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Front Disc wheel.....humor me.
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IRONLOBO
Jul 2, 08 23:32
Post #1 of 29 (1506 views)
Front Disc wheel.....humor me.
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SO I am working in a bike shop currently as I transition from one career into another. The shop I work in happens to be a fairly high end shop by any standards.
Today, A guy walks in with a pretty sweet p3 (which he bought from us), the p3 has an 808 sand a zipp disc in the rear (pretty normal.....well actually incredibly common). The customer says he has ordered a new wheel for TTs and specifically states that these are TTs on roads, uscf aca etc, etc. I go to the back and get the box, then bring the box to the customer.
Upon opening the box, I pull out a zipp front disc.....the customer is stoked and starts talking about how he is gonna smoke people at the record challenge TT.
Now to humor me:
That disc front wheel is just for the track right??? you cant use it in any sort of real road event right??? am I wrong or not??? I was pretty sure the front disc was only for the track where cross winds are not an issue.
thanks.
As it turns out, what you have is less important than what you do with it...
-Bernd Heinrich, why we run
G-man
Jul 3, 08 0:31
Post #2 of 29 (1479 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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They used to ride them on the road, I have an old one and if there is no wind they are fast if it is a cross wind hang on.
neil_laing
Jul 3, 08 5:03
Post #3 of 29 (1374 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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Depends on the rules really.
Normally confined to the track because of the handling issues with crosswinds, however UCI rules allow their use on the road.
Scottish/British rules do not allow front discs, as I suspect will several other national bodies.
The English TT body, have a maximum allowed wheel area for front wheels, so an 808 is allowed, but a 1080 is not. Go figure.
A front disc is not likely to provide much benefit, unless it's a perfectly calm day. As mentioned by the other reply, if it's windy you're likely to spend more effort stopping yourself from getting blown under a truck then you are going forward.
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SProboscis
Jul 3, 08 5:41
Post #4 of 29 (1321 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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If there is no wind, no problem. Might even shave a few seconds off. Quite a few years ago, a buddy descided to try putting covers on both front and back wheels. Unfortunately there were some very strong wind gusts later in that day. He ended up being pushed into a tree. At the time I thought it was funny as hell. Now that I am older, and hopefully wiser, I see that he could have really hurt himself. In the real world though, a front disc is of little practical benefit, and probably just a waste of money, especially for a Zipp.
Macho Grande
Jul 3, 08 6:15
Post #5 of 29 (1285 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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Is this the same guy who wanted to take his FD off for IMAZ this spring to save a few grams?
Sure it might be a bit faster, but at what expense? Handling in corss winds will be tough even if a pig farts across the road. And, what if you happen to lay the bike down or taco the wheel? Is a few seconds worth thousands of dollars?
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jyeager
Jul 3, 08 6:50
Post #6 of 29 (1232 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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I have been scanning my memory banks and can't remember a local tri that I've participated in where there was discernable wind except for the one last weekend.
If I had a front disc available and could make the call on race day there are many instances in my locale where it is likely to work well.
paul_tx
Jul 3, 08 7:07
Post #7 of 29 (1195 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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I'm betting the proud new owner of that front disc wheel is strictly a roadie and not a triathlete. Dumbass.
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FatandSlow
Jul 3, 08 7:13
Post #8 of 29 (1178 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [jyeager]
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Ok, I'm old, so humor me. Anybody remember Fignon lying on the ground after the final TT in the TdF? He had a front disc. LeMond didn't. I'm sure it's not the only reason (I've seen some reports saying the drag from his ponytail was the difference, but I'm not buying it), but surely the extra effort to manage the disc mattered.
I've got an 808 front. At 210 lbs, I couldn't understand what all the fuss about deep wheel handling was about. Never bothered me. Now, I'm 180 and I get blown around a bit and when I do, it costs me as much as 2 mph.
No way I'd run a front disc on the road. But, I'm old and maybe too cautious...
andrew
Jul 3, 08 7:19
Post #9 of 29 (1167 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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disks were pretty common on both wheels for a time, in time trials. i think they have been outlawed in triathlon for quite a while, though. iirc, they were used mainly in the days before aerobars, so the rider had a bit more control over the bike's stability. also, this was in the day of the so-called 'funny bike' with a smaller front wheel ( i had a front disk for my old hooker elite tt). there was a thread not long ago that discussed the improved stability of having a rear wheel with more surface area than the front, so that could also be a factor, too. in those days, though, the deep rimmed wheels had not been as fully developed as now, so the front disk option is not as valid as then.
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toolguy
Jul 3, 08 8:09
Post #10 of 29 (1114 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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I had a front wheel with a cover making it a pretty good front disc, i rode it one time! To a local tt a few miles from my home,when i got to the start i took off the cover and never used it again,not a windy day but everytime a car passed me it almost took me off the bike, all 200 lbs
toolguy
Jul 3, 08 8:11
Post #11 of 29 (1106 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [FatandSlow]
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I am around your weight and almost had a gust take me down using a trispoke
cidewar
Jul 3, 08 8:13
Post #12 of 29 (1095 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [FatandSlow]
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So let me get this straight. You are saying since Fignon appeared to be more tired then LeMond and also lost the race and also used a front disc wheel that the wheel obviously didn't work and the "extra effort to manage the disc" is what cost him the win?
what qualifies you to say that and what evidence do you have that the front disc slowed him down.
pito00
Jul 3, 08 8:43
Post #13 of 29 (1050 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [cidewar]
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So let me get this straight. You are saying since Fignon appeared to be more tired then LeMond and also lost the race and also used a front disc wheel that the wheel obviously didn't work and the "extra effort to manage the disc" is what cost him the win?
what qualifies you to say that and what evidence do you have that the front disc slowed him down.
Everybody knows Fignon lost because he was a comparatively crappy time trialist using a funny-bike with pursuit bars as his aero position. Lemond won because he was the first to use aerobars and as everyone knew, he was a better TTist.
This front wheel disc is cool, but I hope the guy's got the motor to back up that kind of investment. Otherwise he deserves all the sneering he's gonna get.
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(This post was
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hj-rockstar
Jul 3, 08 8:47
Post #14 of 29 (1033 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [FatandSlow]
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You should really change your "tag name." Doesn't sound like you fit that profile any longer ;-)
roady
Jul 3, 08 9:45
Post #15 of 29 (977 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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Man, I love youtube.
Every time I think of 'front road disc', I think of this clip
here
(btw, Phil was, as usual, mistaken--there was no blowout, he just lost control of the disc). Notice he wasn't even that close to the curb when he started to lose it.
A disc is legal to run in TT's, but it's silly. The only yaw angles at which a disc would be faster than the fastest spoked wheels would be the yaw angles at which the wheel would be completely uncontrollable.
Old and Haggard
Jul 3, 08 10:03
Post #16 of 29 (953 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [pito00]
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In Reply To
In Reply To
So let me get this straight. You are saying since Fignon appeared to be more tired then LeMond and also lost the race and also used a front disc wheel that the wheel obviously didn't work and the "extra effort to manage the disc" is what cost him the win?
what qualifies you to say that and what evidence do you have that the front disc slowed him down.
Everybody knows Fignon lost because he was a comparatively crappy time trialist using a funny-bike with pursuit bars as his aero position. Lemond won because he was the first to use aerobars and as everyone knew, he was a better TTist.
I guess compared to the absolutely best TTers of the day, Fignon was comparatively crappy. So crappy that in the 1989 TdF he took 2nd in the 7.8km prologue, 3rd in the 73km (back when men were men) stage 5 TT, and 3rd in the stage 21 TT...
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pito00
Jul 3, 08 11:18
Post #17 of 29 (890 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [klehner]
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In Reply To
In Reply To
So let me get this straight. You are saying since Fignon appeared to be more tired then LeMond and also lost the race and also used a front disc wheel that the wheel obviously didn't work and the "extra effort to manage the disc" is what cost him the win?
what qualifies you to say that and what evidence do you have that the front disc slowed him down.
Everybody knows Fignon lost because he was a comparatively crappy time trialist using a funny-bike with pursuit bars as his aero position. Lemond won because he was the first to use aerobars and as everyone knew, he was a better TTist.
I guess compared to the absolutely best TTers of the day, Fignon was comparatively crappy. So crappy that in the 1989 TdF he took 2nd in the 7.8km prologue, 3rd in the 73km (back when men were men) stage 5 TT, and 3rd in the stage 21 TT...
Exactly.
Second place is the first loser.
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Tom A.
Jul 3, 08 11:22
Post #18 of 29 (883 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [roady]
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A disc is legal to run in TT's, but it's silly. The only yaw angles at which a disc would be faster than the fastest spoked wheels would be the yaw angles at which the wheel would be completely uncontrollable.
I've always wondered if a front disc would be more "controllable" if one could mount one of these on a TT bike, except I've never had a TT bike with more than a 1" steerer:
http://www.merchantmanager.com/timhopey/
I would also speculate that a lenticular shaped front disc would be more "controllable" than a flat disc since it's "stalling" behavior would be less abrupt....
Andrew Coggan
Jul 3, 08 11:33
Post #19 of 29 (865 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [roady]
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The only yaw angles at which a disc would be faster than the fastest spoked wheels would be the yaw angles at which the wheel would be completely uncontrollable.
Yet ironically, people run front disks on indoor tracks all the time...
Andrew Coggan
Jul 3, 08 11:38
Post #20 of 29 (852 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [roady]
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Every time I think of 'front road disc', I think of this clip
here
(btw, Phil was, as usual, mistaken--there was no blowout, he just lost control of the disc).
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that you can hear the tire blow, at about the time he starts to move towards the curb, but before he really starts to wobble.
EDIT: At 2:17 or 2:18 into the clip, just after he crosses the intersection and the white centerline reappears.
(This post was
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NateC
Jul 3, 08 12:37
Post #21 of 29 (787 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [Andrew Coggan]
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It's a pretty distinctive tubular popping sound if you are listening for it.
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Learn
Jul 3, 08 12:54
Post #22 of 29 (764 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [SProboscis]
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So that I might properly prepare, at what age does getting blown into a tree stop being hill-arious?
Sergio Escutia
Jul 3, 08 13:07
Post #23 of 29 (744 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [Andrew Coggan]
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Every time I think of 'front road disc', I think of this clip
here
(btw, Phil was, as usual, mistaken--there was no blowout, he just lost control of the disc).
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that you can hear the tire blow, at about the time he starts to move towards the curb, but before he really starts to wobble.
EDIT: At 2:17 or 2:18 into the clip, just after he crosses the intersection and the white centerline reappears.
It does sounds like a tubular popped. And what followed the sound looks like typical puncture consequence.
Sergio
Raul
Jul 3, 08 13:26
Post #24 of 29 (721 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [Learn]
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So that I might properly prepare, at what age does getting blown into a tree stop being hill-arious?
Same thing I was wondering.
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campled
Jul 3, 08 20:55
Post #25 of 29 (624 views)
Re: Front Disc wheel.....humor me. [IRONLOBO]
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