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FLUID testers, post your reviews here!

Slowman

Dec 10, 09 11:32

Post #1 of 8 (3465 views)

FLUID testers, post your reviews here!	Quote \| Reply

As you might recall, we recently hosted a call for product testers. The product is FLUID, a boutique sports nutritional company headquartered not far from the Slowtwitch Compound (right next to where we buy our hay, in fact), founded by a couple of Cal Poly nutrition science guys.

The deal was, try FLUID instead of your current fluid replacement for a few weeks, and report back. So, here's the "report back" thread. Let 'er rip! What did you think? Be as detailed as you need.

Please, for now, let's keep this limited to those who were part of the product sample pool, except if your post consists of a question you want to ask those in the sample pool.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

sailnfast

Dec 10, 09 12:02

Post #2 of 8 (3421 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Background: For the past three years I�ve been using Endurox R4. I�ve been adding a large teaspoon (5000mg) of L-Glutamine to it since it only has 420mg per serving and I find that this combination really aids in my recovery. I�d tried Fluid a few times at some local races (Wildflower and Magic Mountain Man), but had never used it for an extended period of time.

First Impressions: Upon receiving my sample Fluid product, I noticed a few things. First, there is 2500mg of L-Glutamine per serving. Second, the flavors were different than the vanilla Endurox I�d been using. I�ve always thought that I didn�t want to drink a fruit-flavored recovery drink after drinking fruit-flavored Gatorade or NUUN while training, so I wasn�t expecting to like Fluid�s Tropical or Berry flavors after a long session on the bike. Third, Fluid is all-natural.

The Trial: Over the past 20 days I�ve been using Fluid after all of my big training workouts (long bikes, FTP interval sessions on the trainer, longer run workouts, etc). Throughout this time I�ve been pleasantly surprised by a few things:
� The subtle fruit-flavor is very tasty and I find myself craving it after workouts.
� I seem to be recovering better than I was previously after really hard sessions using Fluid without adding additional L-Glutamine. I�ve been working on increasing my FTP during the off-season so have been doing at least two long FTP interval sessions per week that have taken a lot out of me, but after taking a single serving of Fluid I�m feeling very little soreness the next day (when I�m usually doing a hard run workout).
� Like Endurox and a few other recovery drinks I�ve used, Fluid can clump if you don�t pour the powder in while stirring the water. According to Richard, founder of Fluid, they have found a way to fix this and the new product arriving in Jan-Feb 2010 should have zero issues with clumping.

Take Away: I'm sold. Fluid is a great tasting product that works. It's from a small upstart company with personalized customer service from the founder who's a triathlete and bike racer himself (something I really appreciate).

Let me know if you have any questions and thanks to Dan for offering STers the opportunity to participate in these product reviews.

Fred
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
�Time is limited, so I better wake up every morning fresh and know that I have just one chance to live this particular day right, and to string my days together into a life of action, and purpose.� --Lance Armstrong

(This post was edited by sailnfast on Dec 10, 09 12:03)

jen-g

Dec 10, 09 13:16

Post #3 of 8 (3321 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

My background:
Towards the end of May last year, when the mileage started to creep up in my preparation to qualify for the Boston marathon I added 500 mg of L-glutamine to my evening supplement routine. L-glutamine is thought to be an important amino acid for increasing protein synthesis (rebuilding muscle), improving immune function, and increasing carbohydrate uptake by the muscles to replenish glycogen post workouts. (1, 2, 3, 4). So when I looked up the ingredients found in FLUID, I was delighted to see 2500 mg in each serving. All of the ingredients in FLUID are natural, there are no preservatives or any artificial flavors and this appeals to me as well. FLUID provides two flavors at this point: Berry Treasure and Tropical Escape and the ingredients are as follows:

Tropical Escape Flavor

Maltodextrin, crystaline fruit sugar, whey protein isolate, L-glutamine, natural tropical fruit flavor, citric acid, sodium citrate, soy lecithin, ascorbic acid, potassium chloride.

Berry Treasure Flavor
Maltodextrin, crystaline fruit sugar, whey protein isolate, L-glutamine, natural blueberry and raspberry flavor, citric acid, sodium citrate, soy lecithin, ascorbic acid, potassium chloride, beet root (natural color).

In addition to the L-glutamine, FLUID provides 25 g of carbohydrates in the form of maltodextrine and fruit sugar (fructose), 7 grams of protein from whey protein isolate, 250 mg of sodium, potassium at 1% and 166% of the RDA for vitamin C.

My only regret during the duration of of this trial was the timing for me. While I am running 30+ miles per week in preparation for the Boston marathon, I am not in the peak volume months for running where I will be in February and March of 2010 and I am not in the thick of triathlon training as triathlon season wound down for me at the end of August. At this point I am cycling twice per week and swimming once, mostly as cross training during my winter marathon build up. Despite that I feel that I had great quality workouts in the past couple of weeks and I really feel that I benefited from the FLUID post exercise on days where I had a large amount of intensity (10 x 400 up hill at 5k pace) and longer duration runs mid week and on the weekends.
Of the two flavors, I like the Berry better. The Tropical Escape has sort of an orange chewable baby aspirin taste to me that is a little shocking on the first sip but still goes down easy. Curious to know what other flavors may be offered, I emailed the company owner/founder, Richard Smith, and asked him if they plan on making any other flavors and this was his response:

"At this time, yes, we do only offer two flavors (tropical punch & blueberry/raspberry). However, we have our sights set on launching 2 additional ones next year - one a little sweeter & chocolate based, & one that will be Vegan friendly/Dairy free. That flavor will likely be a subtle sweet Peach Tea."

I am all over the chocolate!

My official opinion after a 15 day trial where I used FLUID after two consective 30-35 mile run weeks with 2 bike sessions and 2 swims each week:

This product decreased the DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) I usually feel after a hard track session or a long run with a fast finish at 10k pace. I had no soreness that I noticed after any of the higher intensity or longer duration runs I completed within the 15 days.
Many of my run workouts are completed in the early morning mid week before I jettison off to work. My normal routine is to run first, then quickly eat a whole wheat english muffin and drink coffee while rushing out the door to get to work. I think that the FLUID in addition to my normal breakfast contributed towards an enhanced recovery from the workout. I felt better throughout the day after drinking FLUID immediately post early morning run workouts.
I think this product would be beneficial as a post workout recovery drink, particularly if used within the 60 minute window, during heavy training periods leading up to a priority race when volume and intensity are at the highest levels.
While I was partical to the berry flavor, FLUID tasted better if consumed immediately after being made with plenty of ice, The colder the better.
I really think the combination of L-glutamine and the whey protein in additon to the maltodextrine, made for a quicker recovery from each of the workouts I did throughout the trial.

As an endurox user for many years, I actually think the FLUID does a better job at speeding my recovery.
____________________________________________________

http://www.runnerslab.net
http://www.jayasports.com

ironmayb

Dec 10, 09 14:11

Post #4 of 8 (3280 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

In Reply To:

Please, for now, let's keep this limited to those who were part of the product sample pool, except if your post consists of a question you want to ask those in the sample pool.

hope this qualifies and I'm not screwing up the thread.

I am assuming this comes in a powder form (based on website).

Mixed just with plain water? And how was the "grit" factor when mixed. I ask because I find straight Glutamine pretty "gritty" and this appears to have a decent amount of Glutamine in it.

When you make a serving do you end up with a bunch of powder in the bottom of glass or does it mix well?

Thanks

burnman

Dec 10, 09 17:19

Post #5 of 8 (3152 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Background
An injury in July forced me into a 6 week layoff from physical activity. Getting back into it around mid-September was slow and painful at best. My 'new' condition had me using muscles that had been seemingly dormant for years - the biggest issue being excessive fatigue and soreness. My recovery nutrition has always been existent, but would be best classified as any port in a storm. At my worst, I would slug down a glass of whole chocolate milk and maybe follow it with a snickers bar (delicious, but gut-wrenching). At my best, I would gag down a spoonful of rancid amino acid powder and chase it with a bland fructose/maltodextrin cocktail (disgusting, but effective). Most recently, I had been using EAS Myoplex as my primary recovery, with marginal results.

Workouts
The trial included approximately 2 to 2 1/2 weeks worth of product (16 servings), assuming 7-8 workouts per week. My workouts consisted primarily of medium and long runs (10/16), several speed workouts in the pool (4/16), and a couple of interval sessions on the bike trainer. Prior to the trial, I wasn't quite at this load frequency, but for the sake of the trial I kept my workouts frequent and consistent.

Product
The product came in single serve packages, each approximately 130 calories as specified by the product website. The flavors were both fruit based - one tropical and the other berry (8x each). This gave me pause as I'm really not a fan of fruit flavors that don't come directly in the form of either the fruit itself or its juice. The consolation was that in a world of bland chocolate and vanilla recovery, there is room for improvement.

Initial Impressions
It is recommended that 8-12 oz of water be used to mix each serving. Even with very slow, very deliberate mixing, I couldn't get all of the mixture into solution using 12 oz, and typically had to use as much as 14-16 oz. The drink has the characteristic whey protein smell and very slight aftertaste, but the flavors were very well blended, very subtle, and extremely palatable. There is typically a slight residue of undissolved remnants in the bottom of the container, but it is easily swept up with another 1-2 slugs of water. Not gritty, and just the right balance of flavor.

Results
During the trial, I had initially tracked my results day to day .... performance, soreness, onset of fatigue, etc. After the first few days, I noticed something quite profound - profound because I didn't notice anything at all. I was performing comparable workouts on consecutive days without diminished performance or even the slightest measure of fatigue. Even during my recovery weeks leading up to IMLP last season, I would have the occasional down days where nothing felt fresh and my full range of motion was compromised by fatigue. At first, I questioned my workouts, thinking that I wasn't pushing myself hard enough. The benefits were not readily noticeable until week two of the trial when I forgot to pack the Fluid in with my workout gear. I put in a 60min run at HM pace, and could absolutely feel it the next day. Soreness set in the minute I woke up, and my bike workout that evening was very labored and tiring. The same thing happened a couple of days later when I forgot it coming out of a swim workout. I haven't felt that sore after a swim workout in probably 2-3 years. The exact opposite was true of days where I had properly recovered using the Fluid product. My muscles were fresh the instant I woke up and I was good to go even for my early morning workouts.

Summary
The results speak for themselves. I am a firm believer that in terms of flavor and consistency recovery drinks will never be on par with your favorite soft drink (or alcoholic beverage, if you're so inclined). The saving grace for recovery products is their functionality. If your recovery nutrition doesn't work well, then you're less likely to recover properly based on flavor and consistency of the product alone. Fluid is defnitely the most comprehensive recovery product that I've ever worked with.

Pros: In terms of functional recovery, I have yet to encounter a product that is as effective. Taste is equal to or better than any competing product on the market. The nutritional profile is balanced with well-coordinated selections. The serving size and calorie load are just right for recovery. Many products fail this last point by simply ignoring the fact that your body cannot uptake 200-300 calories in the effective 30 minute window, immediately after exercise.

Cons: Mixing consistency is really the biggest issue, but only in the sense that 12 oz are recommended, and 14+ oz are more effective. Again, I don't see this as a big issue, as I normally 86 the water during my workout. The flavor and aroma of the protein constituents are always an issue with recovery products, but given that it's present across the board I would simply call it a necessary evil. The trial was no expense, but I can see the recurring cost as a limiting factor for many folks. To be quite honest, if a product works as well as Fluid, and is accessible for under $2 per serving, it's a very worthwhile expense. Imagine the combined effectiveness of a daily ice bath, compression tights, and a solid 10 hours of sleep. Is that worth $1.50-$2.00 per workout?

All-in-all, I am very pleased with Fluid's product, and the experience as a whole. Richard Smith (who coordinated the trial for the company) was extremely responsive and extremely helpful. I'd like to thank both him and Dan for the opportunity to partake in the trial, and promote such an effective product. After several months of badgering, I now have a practical gift idea to pass along to my wife.

-------------------------------------------------------
I wear long sleeve shirts under short sleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts.

(This post was edited by burnman on Dec 10, 09 17:20)

Oleander

Dec 10, 09 18:59

Post #6 of 8 (3083 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I am posting this review before reading the ones that are already posted here�so that they don�t influence me ;)

FLUID REVIEW

THE STATS

Female, 41
Runner ~10 years; triathlete 5 years
Current training: Marathon; weekly workouts are: Run x5, Swim x1-2, Bike x1-2, Strength x1, Recovery yoga x1

RECOVERY PHILOSOPHY

I am a recovery freak. This is owing to a long history of running injuries I now want to avoid; and the fact that, as I age, it�s taking me a bit longer to recover between workouts. And: Good eating, ingestion of natural anti-inflammatories (ginger, turmeric pills, Omega 3s, etc.), alcohol avoidance, recovery yoga, physical therapy, foam-rolling, and plenty of sleep�All that just plain feels good. My workouts the following day are always better the more of that recovery stuff I can get in.

This is especially true of food. If I do not refuel soon after a big workout, it can affect me badly the next day. When a workout goes awry, often I need look no further than what I ate (or failed to eat) after the previous day�s exercise.

I�m into whole foods. Veggies, fruit, lean meats. Till ~2 years ago, the notion of a �recovery drink� was blasphemous to me. An expensive, non-whole-foods powder?

When however I admitted that I was not always able to access whole foods within an hour of my workout, I started experimenting with some recovery drink brands.

I�ve done the research. You need carbs and proteins both, in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. A large dose of L-glutamine (2500mg or more) helps both muscle recovery and immune system. Caffeine can also help with recovery. Those are the facts I could find that appear to be supported by science. Anything beyond that is probably a gimmick, though I�m open to being corrected.

What I�m not really sure of is (a) what the actual recovery window is for muscle glycogen replacement (I�ve heard 30 minutes, one hour, 90 minutes; ??); (b) how many total calories, or grams of carbs/protein you need during that window; and (c) whether the carbs should be low-glycemic or high-glycemic. If someone with more scientific data could comment, that would be most helpful. (The recovery drink brands appear to differ in their conclusions about all of the above; so, for instance, a serving of Endurox contains 270 calories, while a serving of Fluid contains 128.)

I find the most likely window for me to catch a cold from someone is in the hours following a big workout. So I like my recovery food or drink to contain some kind of immune-system boosters.

RECOVERY DRINKS I�VE TRIED BEFORE

1. Endurox, Tangy Orange flavor. Impressions: Inexpensive (and easy to find on sale); cheap ingredients; woefully inadequate glutamine; lots of Vitamins C and E; bad taste. A full serving of 2 scoops is pretty hefty; kind of hard to get it all down. It tasted a bit better after I added 3000mg of a nice-flavored glutamine powder made by another company; but that increased both the expense, and the hassle factor.

2. Hammer Recoverite, Subtle Citrus flavor. Impressions: Expensive (and hard to find on sale!); higher quality ingredients; adequate glutamine; inadequate immune boosters (no C/E); good taste. (I don�t mind the �chalky� texture of Hammer products that some complain about.) Sometimes I added some powdered ascorbic acid (Vitamin C).

3. Luna Recovery Smoothie, Dark Chocolate. Impressions: Very expensive; woefully inadequate Glutamine; good immune boosters (C, E, Zinc, etc.); excellent taste. In spite of its superior yumminess, Luna Recovery simply does not contain the range of useful ingredients to justify its high expense.

OKAY! NOW FOR THE FLUID EXPERIMENT

I was very hopeful about this product when I first heard about it on Slowtwitch. All-natural? Easily absorbed, high-quality ingredients? Light taste? 2500mg of glutamine and enough Vitamin C? I�m there!

Here, finally, are my testing results�

1. Flavor. First I tried the Tropical flavor, mixing it in 8 oz. of cold water per the instructions. That was awful. It tasted like cough medicine. (I later asked my boyfriend to taste it; he actually spit it out.) I was bitterly disappointed, till I tasted the Berry flavor. MUCH BETTER! And, it did taste �lighter� than most of the above-mentioned competing products. Taste-wise it�s no Luna Smoothie, but it�ll do.

An additional note: I discovered I preferred Fluid diluted in 16 oz. rather than 8 oz. of water. And, Fluid contains fewer calories than most of the other recovery drinks, so I never felt like I was choking on the sheer amount.

2. Recovery results. During the three-week test period I re-tested my reaction to Endorox, Recoverite, and Luna as well as Fluid. I will be perfectly honest here. As long as I got my recovery calories within the hour after my workout � whether via whole foods or one of the four recovery drinks � I felt fine (more energy, less DOMS) at my next workout. If I failed to get my calories, my next workout suffered or I was a bit sore. Either there is not much difference among the four recovery drinks (and between them and real food); or, there were just too many factors going on (sleep, stress, overall day�s calories, the week�s workout load) to do a controlled study. In any case, Fluid did no worse than any of the recovery drinks or than real food.

3. Quality of ingredients. I was, and continue to be very impressed with, for lack of a better word, the purity of the ingredients in the Fluid. No gluten? Cutting out the gluten probably helps everyone � not just the gluten-sensitive folks. Whey protein isolate instead of whey protein concentrate. No artificial flavors or colors (I�m allergic to some artificial colorings). And of course my favorites, glutamine and Vitamin C.

I asked Richard at Fluid why Fluid includes no Vitamin E. Here�s his response: �Regarding Vitamin E, there is research that suggests it can be a very effective antioxidant, but only in liquid form. The research on dehydrated versions doesn't show nearly as much benefit as taking it in a liquid, and it can often deter taste, so we left it out of this formula.�

4. Minor issue, but I suppose it could become a hassle: I found that the Fluid powder tended to stick in clumps to the inside of my water bottle, even when I shook it up really good. It was a pain to clean. I found myself taking a plastic mug and spoon with me to workouts, mixing the Fluid into the cup for much easier washing.

CONCLUSION

I will continue to try to replenish my workouts with �real food.� However, when that is impossible, I�ll use either Fluid or Hammer Recoverite, whichever I can find on sale. I slightly preferred the taste of the Hammer, but the ingredients list of the Fluid. Both high quality products.

SOME MODEST PROPOSALS FOR FLUID

1. Test and offer some additional flavors.

2. Consider some more immune system boosters. If Vitamin E can�t be absorbed, then what about, say, green tea extract? Astragalus? Chlorella? Etc.

3. What about developing one or more flavors with caffeine added? I usually feel better if I can have a bit of caffeine after a workout that is not too late in the day. And, caffeine appears to have some recovery benefits.

THANK YOU for inviting me to be a tester!

Yours truly,
Oleander

(This post was edited by Oleander on Dec 10, 09 19:06)

jen-g

Dec 10, 09 19:43

Post #7 of 8 (3068 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [ironmayb] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

Powder mixed with water and ice (it tastes better cold). Absolutely no grit.
____________________________________________________

http://www.runnerslab.net
http://www.jayasports.com

Stone73

Dec 12, 09 4:27

Post #8 of 8 (2625 views)

Re: FLUID testers, post your reviews here! [Slowman] [In reply to]	Quote \| Reply

I was also a FLUID tester and here is my review below. Please let me know if anyone has any questions as I would be happy to help out. This is a great product and the results are real!!!

Thanks

Mark

Background:
Back in October, I read the post on Slowtwitch about a company looking for testers for its post workout recovery drink. Frankly I was not aware of the company or the product so before submitting my name to be a tester, I wanted to make sure it was something I was actually interested in using. I went to the website, www.livefluid.com, to do a little research. Two things I noticed right away, it was very easy to find out what was in FLUID and there were explanations of why they used each ingredient. Some products it can take a month of scanning to website to actually find ingredients.
So after a little research, I sent a note to Rich explaining why I thought I would make a good tester. I have not currently been using a recovery drink on a regular basis (other than chocolate milk every now and then) and after a season wrought with injury, I was finally back to steady training. Since I was currently building volume, recovery was key.
I received notification that I was selected as a tester and that I would be receiving FLUID in the mail. The package arrived the first week in November. In the box were several individual serving size packages of FLUID evenly divided between �Tropical Escape� and �Berry Treasure�.
Workouts:
For workouts, I ran 3-4 days, biked 3 days and used my VASA ergometer whenever possible each week. However, just a few days into training, I ended up getting sick and missing a week of training. Once I was able to train again, I ran into some travel conflicts so I was not able to string as many workouts together as I would have liked.
Product Impressions:
For my first three workouts, I mixed up the FLUID after I got back from the workout. I found it very difficult to mix up, especially once it started to foam. Once I started up training again, I would mix it up before hand and put it in the fridge. This was perfect as the foam would settle and the product was completely dissolved.
Taste � In all honesty, I am not really concerned about taste when it comes to a recovery drink. Taste is absolutely critical for a product you are using during the race but I will tolerate just about anything after a workout if I think it will help. That being said, the taste was fine. I preferred the Tropical Escape over the Berry Blast but not by much. They might do well to increase the �flavor� a little as I thought it tasted a little watered down (but that might have been just how I was mixing it).
The big question is of course, how did I feel after taking the product. I REALLY wish I didn�t get sick in the middle of testing as I would have liked a full 15 days straight. I did manage to string together a series of workouts which helped with the evaluation. In addition, I upped the intensity a bit on the bike and added a few more miles to the run to increase the stress a bit over a prior full week of training. I can definitely say I felt good and I had no residual fatigue come later in the week. Usually by Friday, I am feeling pretty worn down after an intense Thursday ride. However, I honestly felt great and I was surprised by the difference.
I think the final question is will I continue to use FLUID. I tend to be very skeptical by nature and my initial reaction is to not believe anything anyone says that is trying to sell me something (especially in the world of triathlon). However, my last several workouts have me believing that FLUID works as claimed. It was a noticeable difference and enough so that I want to use the product for at least an additional month to see if I continue to feel a difference.