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Entry Fees out of control
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de-tri-mental
Oct 28, 09 10:22
Post #51 of 168 (850 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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"By the way, since when are ethics and morals and responsibility un-American values?"
Since you said so.
I forgive you what you said about me raising my children.
That would be a cheap shot.
Unless you are as sarcastic as I was with my "hating America" comment. Thanks Drake-Tri for pointing that out!
I however find it ironic if people whine and complain about lack of values. After all whining, complaining and denying accountability isn't exactly a "value" in my book.
So good for you that you claim to have values.
Now go out and do some good (I suggest you start by not signing up for NYC).
___________________________________________
Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus
(This post was
edited
by de-tri-mental on Oct 28, 09 10:24)
firemedic
Oct 28, 09 10:24
Post #52 of 168 (845 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Devlin]
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I have enough $$, I don't need it all. By the way, the fact that those with means will pay, isn't assinine, especially if it's true. As for big business ethics, last I checked, business ethics are still business ethics, only the scale of company is different and the number of people it affects. As for shaky mortgage loans, that's not just the consumer, but also the banks who were willing to make those loans despite the fact that they didn't make sense in the long term. ARM's are different than subprime, which were the real culprit of the credit crunch. As for insurance costs, again, $210K increase in 2 years? Unless someone shows it to me, I can't be that easily convinced.
As for being un-American, I take that kinda seriously, working and volunteering in 9-1-1 services, and having responded to the Towers on 9/11.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
firemedic
Oct 28, 09 10:25
Post #53 of 168 (841 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [de-tri-mental]
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Sarcasm doesn't always come across on the screen, and with regards to you, it was a generic you, not a specific you.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
Devlin
Oct 28, 09 10:44
Post #54 of 168 (825 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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I have enough $$, I don't need it all. By the way, the fact that those with means will pay, isn't assinine, especially if it's true. As for big business ethics, last I checked, business ethics are still business ethics, only the scale of company is different and the number of people it affects. As for shaky mortgage loans, that's not just the consumer, but also the banks who were willing to make those loans despite the fact that they didn't make sense in the long term. ARM's are different than subprime, which were the real culprit of the credit crunch. As for insurance costs, again, $210K increase in 2 years? Unless someone shows it to me, I can't be that easily convinced.
As for being un-American, I take that kinda seriously, working and volunteering in 9-1-1 services, and having responded to the Towers on 9/11.
Subprime is a market segment label. ARM's are one of the tools. ARM's were one of the easiest ways to qualify a subprime candidate for a mortgage. It's also a great way to get someone that did have $$ into way more house than they could afford.
And, I can't show you the figures. I do know that for myself and my wife, our health insurance costs have gone up 70% in three years, and that insurance for martial arts tournaments (without all the attendant police, etc) have gone up right around 50% in the last couple years. But, you are absolutely convince that your cause is just and right, so nothing anyone here can say will change that perception. If you really believe that the entry fee is out of line, don't pay it and don't race. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
And you're wound a little tight. If an anonymous someone on an internet forum says you're un American, does that make it true? So you responded to the 9/11 incident. Good for you. How does that make you "more American"? I worked EMS in the Air Force and saw some pretty ugly stuff. So what? Does that make me more American than the contractor that lives across the street?
John
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That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche
burnman
Oct 28, 09 10:57
Post #55 of 168 (799 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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The answer to this OP is simple. If you don't like "out of control" entry fees, do something else. You're not required, by law, to do triathlons. You choose to do triathlons. Dealing with the relative cost is your job, not the RD's. I don't know about you, but I've never known an RD that was swimming in the excess loot that everyone seems to think they're raking in. When all is said and done, it's for profit, but not like BoA or AIG executive profit.
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Hunting is only a sport if your prey is human and he shoots back.
WVTRIMAN
Oct 28, 09 10:58
Post #56 of 168 (798 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Devlin]
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Another "Fee-nominon" is how entry fees differ in different regions. When I began racing in the southeast a sprint cost on average $35-45, an oly ~$55-70 and a 1/2 maybe $90. I moved to Colorado one summer and was shocked that it was about double for the same distance races there. Same year, same distance, same support, different location. I did feel that I was getting gouged. It sucks being an addict for a sport doesn't it?
Devlin
Oct 28, 09 11:14
Post #57 of 168 (778 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [WVTRIMAN]
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Another "Fee-nominon" is how entry fees differ in different regions. When I began racing in the southeast a sprint cost on average $35-45, an oly ~$55-70 and a 1/2 maybe $90. I moved to Colorado one summer and was shocked that it was about double for the same distance races there. Same year, same distance, same support, different location. I did feel that I was getting gouged. It sucks being an addict for a sport doesn't it?
And it also depends on where in Colorado. Different municipalities will charge different $$ for the same distance.
And yeah, sometimes it does suck to be an addict to a $$ sport. :-/
John
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That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche
firemedic
Oct 28, 09 11:18
Post #58 of 168 (765 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Devlin]
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You seem to think I have something seriously against RD's in general, or that I am on some sort of crusade. This was an opinion on something I experienced that's one of the things this forum is for. I didn't ask YOU for figures, but I certainly know I have the right to ask questions about where my money goes. Many people ask that in many situations. I'm not wound tight, but in having a discussion, don't I have a right to respond to a statement made about me? the same way the person has the right to make it? (that's America for you). I didn't say that responding to the Towers made me "more American", I merely said I take things like that a little more seriously, because of having experienced it. And I say thank you for your service in the Air Force. End of story. The idea of my original post was to prompt discussion, maybe gain some insight w/ regards to concrete costs, to see if I was alone in my thinking. It was not to open up a war of words, with people calling other people "whiners" for not liking a situation (isn't that how change starts, voicing an opposing idea), or saying "I know more about it than you". Then again, there will always be people can't just discuss stuff intelligently without being trying to push other people's buttons. I guess wanting to compete in a race that was once more affordable, that I enjoyed doing, that has seen a sudden escalation in entry fees and wondering why, isn't permissible as a point for discussion to some people....
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
psoasminor
Oct 28, 09 11:21
Post #59 of 168 (760 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [WVTRIMAN]
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New york marathon is 170+ dollars too! where most marathons are <100 dollars.
The NY marathon and NY tri both fill easily.
It's all about supply and demand.
I dont think the NY tri is worth the money, but im happy to pay for the NY marathon. That's my opinion.
Look at all those 'unamerican' people selling NY marathon bibs for 700 dollars on craigslist!
Wait are those scalpers unamerican for being greedy, or american for filling a need?
Either way, I got no problem with supply and demand It's what drives the market and drives change and creates innovation.
You recommend triathlons fees get regulated?
laissez-faire economics =)
R10C
Oct 28, 09 11:23
Post #60 of 168 (754 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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You can rest assured - the BIG event companies are doing quite well selling their branding. The smaller races, not so much - as I said, this can be seen at GFT, Silverman and other events that are just going away. Since the advent of IMWI just about every small half distance race in the state folded but for a few stragglers. Also, dont think that it was an accident that there is a WTC event right on the heels of GFT. Business is business...most RD's dont make a dime however. Sponsors sign up where they get the most exposure (just smart business)...and this takes away from the smaller events, that get smaller and smaller..and then go away.
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f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
de-tri-mental
Oct 28, 09 11:30
Post #61 of 168 (743 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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"there will always be people can't just discuss stuff intelligently without being trying to push other people's buttons"
Wow,
That's gonna be an ugly awakening when you realize that this train has left Central Station a long time ago.
___________________________________________
Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus
firemedic
Oct 28, 09 11:31
Post #62 of 168 (742 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [psoasminor]
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I understand supply and demand, and I'm not sure regulation is necessarily the answer, at least at this point. I don't even know about the bib/craiglist thing, so I can't even comment on that. I don't agree with scalpers either, concert and sports costs are high enough. I'm saying this is one race whose fee structure has jumped significantly, in this case, my belief is, it doesn't correspond to the costs. Personally, I wouldn't compare NYC Tri to NYC Marathon, but that's just me. IM Hawaii would be a more appropriate comparison in terms of its coverage, fanfare, etc. I think regulation would only become the answer if all the RD's said "Hey, high demand, just raise prices" and then only people with more signficant means could afford to race. That would go against what the USAT is trying to do with the sport, and USAT is the sanctioning body for a clear majority of the triathlons in the country. But we're not at that point yet, where we are is at the top of the slippery slope that could lead to it, and I thought discussion about that would be appropriate. NYC was used as an example since it's right here in my backyard, but others have commented on other races in their areas that are doing similar things. The numbers may be different, but that's relative to cost of living also.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
fdronald
Oct 28, 09 11:38
Post #63 of 168 (735 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [jkahan]
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As far as fire, police, and EMS making a butt load of money from working overtime at races is not always the truth. I am a paid firefighter in NC and the municipality that I am employed by supports the NC Marathon. All of the police, fire, and EMS are provided free of charge to the RD. Also, the first responders are all volunteers or are working the race on their regular scheduled work day...no overtime dollars.
R10C
Oct 28, 09 11:41
Post #64 of 168 (728 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [fdronald]
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I get Fire/Water rescue for free - pay for Ambulance, each EMT, Police AND their cars (as two bills), road barrier delivery, stop light manipulation costs, 911 system changes (so they know we have our own rescue if Joe Spectator calls 911), road permit fees...
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f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
firemedic
Oct 28, 09 11:43
Post #65 of 168 (725 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Record10Carbon]
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Good points, not familiar with the situations out there, but not good for the every day guy who wants to do the smaller races. I'm not sure what the big races like IMWI are charging, but my guess is that's it not blue collar friendly. In the case of the RD of NYC Tri, I think he probably is making something, given his background in sports business, not just triathlon, but that's not really the issue at hand, so much as the future health of the sport overall.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
R10C
Oct 28, 09 11:45
Post #66 of 168 (723 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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$590, one year in advance - cash money. No refunds for ANY reason, partial refunds before a certain date - but the refunds are an insult. No transfers. Then you get to pay the special rate for hotels (with minimum nights) and special menu prices at most places at the venue....I dont and wont pay for a sprint race...that is just a tempo training day for most long course folks ;-)
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f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
sevenride
Oct 28, 09 12:08
Post #67 of 168 (687 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Devlin]
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Why shouldn't a RD try to get as much money as possible? Especially if it is his/her profession. Moreover, if the RD puts on a great race and is at the top of his/her profession, he/she should make as much money as they can. I know when I was in the private sector I thought I was the best at what I did and I wanted to be paid for it. Now I have chosen to be a humble civil servant and I don't feel upset or left out if I can't afford a race or the best equipment. If I can't afford the race I won't do it. There are so many other good races out there. Indeed, some of the best races I've done over the years are those grassy roots type races which are typically half the price. I did the New York Triathlon and thought it was very well run in light of all the logistical nightmares, closing the Westside Highway, closing down 72nd street, closing down Central Park, safeguarding all the bikes Sat and Sun, volunteers, etc. I probably will not do it again as I think it is a bit too expensive and not my favorite. I think I got stung 10 times by jellyfish and was only in the water 20 minutes. Still it was a blast.
Roar Lion Roar
LazyEP
Oct 28, 09 12:26
Post #68 of 168 (668 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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1. I've seen this post over & over & over again. Dead horse.
2. Welcome to a free market system where supply has yet to exceed demand. If you want price controls on entry fees become a cyclist.
3. Far too many people become enamoured with the perceived glitz & glamour of the M-Dot & other brands. There are many triathlons in the US that are economical. My home state of Montana has several events that range from $30-$50.
4. At what point in time is someone forcing you to enter an event? Vote with your wallet & don't enter.
5. Did you have the gall to contact the oil companies when gas was over $4/gallon in the States? Do you contact the movie theatres because it costs $10+ to see a flick?
There's no conspiracy or evil cartel manipulating entry fees. In my 27 years in the sport, most of the people I know & have met simply enjoy the sport. They race locally & splurge every now & then on a "big" event. Complaining about entry fees is like complaining about weather.
Sean Phelps
"It's not the age sweetheart. It's the mileage."
Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.
gbot
Oct 28, 09 12:28
Post #69 of 168 (666 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [sevenride]
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That goes to the larger question that surrounds business in general - should the only goal of a business be to maximize profit for the owner/shareholders, or should we expect that businesses do more than that - be it serving a community (in this case the tri community) or furthering some goal which benefits more than just the owner/shareholders.
Hopefully, how you answer this question will guide which businesses you give your money to.
WiScott
Oct 28, 09 12:37
Post #70 of 168 (653 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [Record10Carbon]
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"Since the advent of IMWI just about every small half distance race in the state folded but for a few stragglers."
I'd argue that since IMWI came to town, we now have
more
half-iron distance races to choose from than ever before. What was around back in the late 90's? Now we have Racine, Door County, High Cliff, Lake Geneva, etc.
-Scott
R10C
Oct 28, 09 12:44
Post #71 of 168 (642 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [WiScott]
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And lost Tinman - Baraboo, Menomoniee, Menonmonee Falls, and a few others....the M-Dots dont count IMO. SOR is a draft fest, Lake Geneva....please.....
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f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
draketriathlon
Oct 28, 09 12:47
Post #72 of 168 (632 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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In the case of the RD of NYC Tri, I think he probably is making something
Oh heaven forbid that the RD makes money...
sevenride
Oct 28, 09 12:50
Post #73 of 168 (629 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [gbot]
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Why does it have to be one or the other. Why can't the company maximize its profits and still give back to society. I think IBM does a fairly good job of this.
Roar Lion Roar
Yknot
Oct 28, 09 12:53
Post #74 of 168 (616 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [firemedic]
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...I'm not sure regulation is necessarily the answer, at least at this point...I think regulation would only become the answer if all the RD's said "Hey, high demand, just raise prices" and then only people with more signficant means could afford to race...
Wow, just wow. Regulate the registration fees for events we voluntarily do. I am speechless. Please come over to the Lavendar room and discuss this.
bad929
Oct 28, 09 13:01
Post #75 of 168 (603 views)
Re: Entry Fees out of control [sevenride]
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By giving back to society do you mean providing a service that the public needs, or do you mean actually contributing to charities, providing scholarship funds etc.
By giving back to society by way of charitiable donations, do you maximize your profit? It would seem by giving to charities an organization is therefore losing potential profit.
I'm not saying it has to be either or, but I think by default if a company gives back to society it therefore cant maximize profit. The company looks "better" to society by contributing to society and helping the homeless, but I think it also loses a bit of profit. BUT the next question is, by contributing to charities, does that company benefit more than the company that is Bottom Line only?
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