Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA

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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA

ROOFELT

Oct 5, 08 6:17

Post #1 of 23 (1220 views)

Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA	Can't Post

Hi
New here, love this forum, thought I'd ask a question on here.
I'm looking to get a new bike, have the option of a good deal on a Cervelo Soloist Carbon, love the bike, the options of the 73 and 76 degree seat angle is good, and it would more suit the courses I ride which are mainly hilly. But I also like the P3C, but looking at more money here.
To throw another in the mix, I also may have the option of a good deal on a Felt DA soon.
So does anyone know what the time savings will be on the P3C over a Soloist Carbon?
Are we talking seconds over 40k? if so how many roughly?
And how does the Felt compare against the Soloist?

Thanks

hillier99

Oct 5, 08 6:30

Post #2 of 23 (1206 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

To get the ball rolling, which one fits you the best?

What do you plan on doing with it? If you just getting started or this will be your only bike, the soloist is a good "multi-purpose" option, if you don't care about group rides/road riding, then personally, I don't think you can do much better than a P3.

Also, for me, personal preference goes a long way. Do any of them "speak to you"? If fit and cost were equal, which one is calling your name?

Brad

----------------------------------------------------------
Only when you risk going too far, can you find out how far you can go...

ROOFELT

Oct 5, 08 6:49

Post #3 of 23 (1195 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [hillier99] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well to start with I've had a P3 before, great bike, so wouldn't rule a P3C out.
I just like the idea of the Soloist, that's the one that 'speaks to me' at the moment, just wondered how much slower it would be over the P3C, or indeed the Felt.
Fit wise I'm ok on the P3 and the Soloist, the Felt is ok too, can get the position I want on all the bikes.
For me I love climbing, I'm light and can climb well, guess that's why I'm leaning toward the Soloist.
Most of the races I do involve involve a fair amount of climbing, but I also have read that on most courses bar a hill climb aero always trumps weight, which is why I'm asking how much, if any, will a soloist be?

Cheers

trinewby

Oct 5, 08 11:10

Post #4 of 23 (1067 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm actually kind of curious about this answer as well. Although I was originally planning on getting a P3, after a professional fitting I was actually told that the Soloist fit me better. (I think it has something to do with my being old, somewhat inflexible, having no prior experience with aero bars and having unusually long thighs).

My guess would be that if you can achieve the same aero position in both the Soloist and the P3 it basically comes down to how aerodynamic each bike is. Obviously the P3 wins this battle, but I can't imagine there's a huge difference in each bike's drag numbers. Although like the original OP I'm curious to see what the answer is.

BTW - remember another advantage of the Soloist is that, if a couple of years later you want to get whatever the newest, latest and greatest tri bike is, you can always pull the aero bars off the soloist, flip the seatpost around, and you have an awesome road bike.

Gibraltar

Oct 5, 08 11:43

Post #5 of 23 (1032 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [trinewby] [In reply to]	Can't Post

For what is is worth and speaking just from my personal experience i have a Soloist SLC and a P3C in in preparation for Ironman UK 70.3 i was not sure which bike to use as there are 52 hills in the 56 miles. I did some rides over the same courses on both bikes and i was really suprised at how much faster i was on the P3C and with a lower average pulse. Although i obviously rode on different days the routes were exactly the same one being a hilly 120km and one an undulating 80km and on both i was definitely quicker on the P3C by around 5%.
This may just be me so i wouldn't want you to now go with the P3C just on this info. I am a 40 - 44 AG and needless to say i used the P3C in the UK 70.3 and finished 22nd overall (2nd in AG) and will be in Clearwater next month.
Chris Walker.
Gibraltar,
Europe

ROOFELT

Oct 5, 08 12:46

Post #6 of 23 (980 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [Gibraltar] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

ROOFELT

Oct 5, 08 13:26

Post #7 of 23 (934 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

trinewby

Oct 5, 08 15:12

Post #8 of 23 (884 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

That does seem like a pretty big difference - particularly since your routes were pretty hilly and the Soloist is lighter. Obviously if the Soloist was just set up as a road bike, that would help explain the difference, since the slowtwitch hive mind has conclusively established that aero trumps weight in almost every race that isn't the Mt. Washington Hill climb.

geekysteve

Oct 5, 08 15:31

Post #9 of 23 (869 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

When I was demo'ing bikes prior to buying my R3, I rode a Soloist, a Soloist Carbon, the R3, and a P2C. I compared them all against my Trek, on the same trail, and I rode them back-to-back. The trail is a 6.5 mile loop, with a few significant climbs, a nice down-hill section, and a long, flat straight (just over 1.1 miles).

None were much faster than my Trek, save for the R3. The R3 isn't aero by any means - it just fit me better, rode smoother, and felt great. I shaved several minutes off my lap times whenever I was on the R3. So, I bought one.

Just adding this to echo the sentiments that you'll be best served by what feels the best to you. The aero differences between those bikes are likely to be rather miniscule (in the grand scheme of things). Since you ride hilly terrain, I'd look at which bike feels the best when climbing, and go from there.

Not sure if this is much help, but figured I'd throw in my 2-cents. :-)
-----------
Cervelo R3; Trek 2000SL

"Children are for people who believe in the future; that's why I had a vasectomy."

SuperDave

Oct 5, 08 21:43

Post #10 of 23 (774 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [geekysteve] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Can you tell me how fast your fastest time was on your Trek and how much faster the R3 was (- minutes) in 6.5 miles?

-SD

geekysteve

Oct 6, 08 7:02

Post #11 of 23 (651 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [SuperDave] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Fastest on the Trek was 22:38; fastest on the R3 was 20:54 - so, not quite 2 minutes, but I'd never broken the 22:00 mark on that loop prior to riding the R3.

Now my times are consistently in the low 20:00 range, with one sub 20-minute run a few weeks ago (weather was perfect, I felt great - definitely not bike related). I usually ride 9-10 laps at a time, and average time for each lap (according to Garmin) is 20:21. Every once in a while I'll take the Trek out for a lap or two, and I'm back in the high 21's low 22 range on it.
-----------
Cervelo R3; Trek 2000SL

"Children are for people who believe in the future; that's why I had a vasectomy."

davidbtri

Oct 6, 08 8:31

Post #12 of 23 (592 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [trinewby] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I had the same experience yesterday though I am young but highly inflexible. Either a soloist or something custom if I wanted a tri bike was the recommendation. It had to do with the 20cm head tube because of my flexibility ( well lack therein of).

-D

Bull_Winkle

Oct 6, 08 8:53

Post #13 of 23 (571 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [davidbtri] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I own a Soloist Carbon SL and a P3 carbon. For most of the tri's I race here in Northern CA like Wildflower and the Vineman 70.3, I'll ride the P3. On a very hilly and technical course like escape from Alcatraz, I will get a better bike split on the Soloist SLC SL.

Something else to think about too would be if you enjoy going on group rides. I ride with the roadies all the time and for that, the Soloist is ideal. I would say that If you can only get one bike, I would go with the Soloist.

Jan Pena, Pacifica Ca

rubberband

Oct 6, 08 9:23

Post #14 of 23 (549 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You might have to try riding both (or all three) on the same course to get a good sense. I don't have a soloist, but I do have a road bike and a P2C. I prefer hilly routes, as I'm light and climb well. I was surprised how much faster the P2C was than my road bike, a Fuji Team Issue, over the same course.

Data points:
1. Auburn "World's Toughest Half" course. Rode this regularly in training on my road bike with clip-ons. Got my P2C shortly before the race. 20 minutes faster with the new bike, where my previous three rides on the road bike were within a minute or two of each other, and my two rides on the P2C were within a couple minutes of each other. 10% improvement in time with the P2C.

2. Mosquito Ridge loop: roughly 80 miles, 9k feet of gain, almost nothing flat. One long climb of up to 18% grade, everything else mellow, grades up to about 4%. 10 minutes faster than on the road bike (without clip-ons this time), where the previous three times on the road bike within a couple minutes of each other. 4% improvement in time, 1% improvement in speed with the P2C. I haven't repeated this on the TT bike yet, though I plan to in a week or so.

So for me, even on courses that are quite hilly, the P2C is faster. The difference is smaller on very hilly courses: the Mosquito Ridge loop is quite a bit steeper than the Auburn tri course. Nevertheless, the P2C was faster for me. I will point out that for very steep climbing, the sort where you're often out of the saddle, the road bike will be significantly more comfortable. I think the speed gains of the P2C were over the rest of the day, not on the steepest climb: that felt very, very hard on the TT bike, and I used the same gearing as on the road bike, or even slightly easier (I don't remember which cassette I had on at the time.)

If it's speed you want, I suspect the P3C will be the better bet, unless you're doing something exceedingly hilly. Since you're asking about improvement over a 40k, I'll assume that's not the case, as even the Alpe d'Huez isn't that long. If you want to do group rides with the roadies , you'd probably be more comfortable on a soloist.

Oh yeah, I'm solidly MOP on the bike. Hope that helps.

tridawg

Oct 6, 08 10:37

Post #15 of 23 (490 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

First regardless of the bike a lot will be determined by the engine. As you know there is a significant difference between the P3 and Carbon soloist. The comparison for those bikes is quite different. If you were thinking the P2C and Soloist I would say the setups would be more similar. I had a fitter and the P3 was just to aggressive for me, his recommendation was wither the P2C or Carbon Soloist. I went with the Soloist and have been extremely pleased. I have always had it in the forward position (revers able seat post) and have clipons. For upcoming IM FL I will switch to a full aero setup with base bar, aero brakes and bar end shifters, other times I just roll with the road bars and clipons. I spent a weekend riding the P2C prior to buying this bike and did not notice a increase in speed. There is some great information Brett Sutton refers to on Slowtwitch home pages regarding Chrissie Wellingtons setup and we know whe can smoke the bike and her coach has had her on the Soloist for IM races and a P2C with Reoad bars and then has switched out with an aero setup. If you cant ride the P3 in the full aero position for the entire race comfortably then it dosent matter what the number say.

MarkyV

Oct 6, 08 11:29

Post #16 of 23 (445 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [geekysteve] [In reply to]	Can't Post

HH

Oct 6, 08 12:41

Post #17 of 23 (398 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [geekysteve] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Switch the wheels (or tires) and see how the ride goes on the trek.

Hoegaarden wishes and Super Record dreams, HH

geekysteve

Oct 6, 08 13:08

Post #18 of 23 (365 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [MarkyV] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Don't have a PowerTap (would love one, but budget prohibits). Wheels are the same on both bikes - Mavic Kysrium.
-----------
Cervelo R3; Trek 2000SL

"Children are for people who believe in the future; that's why I had a vasectomy."

SuperDave

Oct 6, 08 13:51

Post #19 of 23 (338 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [geekysteve] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Oh, this is getting great, can you send me the .tcx files for the course on both bikes if you have them recorded with the Garmin. Can you also send along the weight of the R3. Email is in my profile.

I'd love to learn how just a change in bike can account for such a huge difference.

Thx,

-SD

gtingley

Oct 6, 08 19:21

Post #20 of 23 (262 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

P3C over a Soloist is much greater than the P3C vs the DA, either are fast choices, go with what fits

Myself, I am on a P3C

- Gary

Rotor Q-Rings - Slowtwitch exclusive 15% discount on sets of Q-Rings. Use code "slowtwitch" online at checkout at http://www.RotorCranks.com, all items in stock, and always FREE UPS Ground shipping!!

(This post was edited by gtingley on Oct 6, 08 19:22)

daveinmammoth

Oct 6, 08 22:08

Post #21 of 23 (226 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have a P3SL and a SLC - I'm much faster on the P3SL because:

1) I'm more forward and lower on the P3SL.
2) I have aero bars on the P3SL.
3) I have slower wheels/tires on the SLC.
4) I ride the P3SL more so more adapted?

But the SCL is set up like a comfy road bike and the P3SL is set up like a racing tri bike.

If you set them up exactly the same - I think they'd be very similar in speed. But can you set them up the same? I haven't put my reversible seat post in the SLC but I doubt I could get to 80 degrees. I also couldn't easily get as low in front with SCL/clip ons as I could with the P3SL. So for me - I doubt I could replicate my P3SL position on my SLC.....

The weird thing is that I also seem to climb better on my P3SL....though I haven't rigorously (by my standards) tested that.

Dave

ROOFELT

Oct 7, 08 0:17

Post #22 of 23 (204 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [daveinmammoth] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cheers for the replies guys, I can get a good fit on both bikes, I used to have a P3, and a mate has a Felt I have tried out, both bikes are great, and the fit is good for me on both.
I think I was just of the idea that the Soloist will be better at climbing, but from some of your replies maybe that's not the case.
I have made my mind up to go with a P3C, thanks for all your inputs.
Cheers

Gibraltar

Oct 7, 08 3:25

Post #23 of 23 (187 views)

Re: Cervelo P3C versus Soloist versus Felt DA [ROOFELT] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Don't think I've got the hang of this forum, sorry for just the quote in last post!

Wanted to say thanks for input, and wanted to ask what set up you were using on each bike, did you have the P3C set up as a tri-bike and the soloist as a road bike, i.e drops and sti's?
Would have thought the Soloist would have been quicker round that course, what is the weight differance between the two bikes?

Thanks Both bikes used the same Zipp 404's tubs, 54cm Soloist SLC set up as a road bike with normal drops weighing in at 6.7kg and the 54cm P3C set up as TT bike with HED aero bars weighing in at 7.5kg.
Chris Walker.
Gibraltar,
Europe

(This post was edited by Gibraltar on Oct 7, 08 3:31)