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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge

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marsteller

Sep 30, 08 8:16

Post #51 of 367 (1376 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't use power on the bike. I can't swim very well. I can run ok. Just thought I'd add to the thread because I can do under 70sec for 400m.

Before du nationals in richmond april/08. Early in the race week did 5 x 400m:
1. 69
2. 68
3. 69
4. 68
5. 68

I went up to race tupper lake half ironman june/08. Early race week I did 5 x 400m:
1. 68
2. 68
3. 69
4. 69
5. 68

Week before that I did 5 x 800m:
5 x 800:
2:35
2:29
2:28
2:28
2:27

I think it is tough to do under 70sec for 400m. I haven't been doing much speedwork since june so I think if I went to the track right now I'd have a tough time at it. Back in april and may I was racing sprint races almost every weekend so I had some good speed. But right now I haven't been running faster than 5:30 pace so a sub 70sec 400 might just be 72.

BIGZACH

Sep 30, 08 8:18

Post #52 of 367 (1373 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't know if there are too many in Triathlon with an FTP of 400. Thats like David Millar power....remember, in the Garmin team car, they said he was holding 420 or something for that time trial....that was about a 1 hour TT I believe.

bpq

Sep 30, 08 8:28

Post #53 of 367 (1348 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

at last check (several lazy months ago...)

1:35/100m
FTP ~310
VDOT 57

In true ST fashion I usually bike way too hard and go to pieces on the run and finish in the 90th percentile, or thereabouts. Nothing to brag about really...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit - A wise man does not urinate against the wind.

SwBkRn44

Sep 30, 08 8:29

Post #54 of 367 (1342 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [diver1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I live in NE, the only tracks near me are high school tracks that I am not running at, nor would I even be allowed I think. Is there a track up in NW with open access?

Our club has had trouble finding a track to use for track workouts because they have been restricting access at a lot of the tracks around here. When I do track work I do it on the weekends and drive over to Virginia (which I believe is where DC RR have moved their track workouts). But that's not a possibility after work and I am out of town this weekend and racing next weekend.

pcombs22

Sep 30, 08 8:30

Post #55 of 367 (1342 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I love this thread.

52.00 for 400m; on a track; in a race; with electronic timing; with wind <2mph; with other people there, unfortunately, including 1 that had crossed the line 4 seconds earlier and was wondering what took me so long to finish. Of course, that was a quarter century ago! (It blows my mind that anything in my life was 1/4 century ago).

I couldn't do 400 watts if you spotted me the first 150. And swim 400m in 5 minutes--that would be in the universe that has 7 dimensions and in which the US womens' soccer team thinks I am cute--real cute.

Oh by the way, that 400m time means I could have run a 2:30 marathon, if I had felt like it--which I didn't.

Phil

SpencerDC

Sep 30, 08 8:36

Post #56 of 367 (1324 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dev, awesome idea. I had the exact same thoughts after reading everyone posting on Geb's run. I'm busting out the flats at lunch and will run the first all out 400 of my life:-) I think you should start a new page with only results allowed as this one is quickly going to be 10 pages of clutter. This is going to be fun!

uli

Sep 30, 08 8:38

Post #57 of 367 (1322 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

with wind <2mph;

Is wind a factor to determine legitimacy for races of 400m and up?
__________________________________________
official ST bullshit watchdog (devashish_paul certified)

Dave Luscan

Sep 30, 08 8:49

Post #58 of 367 (1297 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

First with results! I never ran an all out 400 before so I was very interested. Cape Henlopen HS track Lewes Delaware 11:00 am. 65 seconds. My witness is the groundskeeper who kicked me off the track cause school is in session. Minimal warm-up, so pulled my calf a bit. Bastard Dev... I see your plan, make everyone hurt themselves.

FTP, not even close. 320-325 at the moment.

Swim, well BITD I was 5:10 for 500 yards and 4:42 for 400 meters but trained for 50 free and breastroke. I could probably come pretty close to those numbers today with a bit more focus and by exceeding 6000 yards/week once or twice.

cyfac06

Sep 30, 08 8:50

Post #59 of 367 (1295 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

this should be interesting... ~20 yrs. removed from my track days in H.S. running mostly 800 / 1600 and the occasional 4x400 relay leg. I'm guessing that a quarter <70s is very do-able (preferably <60s), but will feel like the end of the world. And I'm half expecting to pull up lame if I really go for it... meanwhile - game on

parkito

Sep 30, 08 8:55

Post #60 of 367 (1285 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [kdw] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The problem is that you are not using ST approved measuring standards:

FTP:
Find a hill. Ride up it as fast as you can for 1 minute. Record your power. This is your ST-FTP. If you don't have a power meter, ride as hard as you can for 1 minute on a flat or slight downhill and this is your ST avg pace for a 3 hour ride.

Running: Take your best time for 1/2 the distance and multiply by 2. So, for a 70 second 400, you would need to do a 35 second 200m. A running start is allowed. Every race you do is accurately measured, so if you do a "5K" run leg of a triathlon in 18:00, that is your official PR even if the first place guy did it in 12:00 (including transitions).

Swimming: Swim 100 yds max effort with a wetsuit. This is your ST pace for any event you do.

Okay, NOW I'm in.

:-)

Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

tyson

Sep 30, 08 9:01

Post #61 of 367 (1265 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [parkito] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Don't forget to take off even more time for the Frank Day-approved method of marathon time estimation. Because under ideal conditions on a good day with good nutrition when the stars are aligned and no one is looking, I'm theoretically able to run a 2:02 marathon (after a 4:00 IM bike split and 0:35 IM swim).
--
Tyson Tate
Cal Poly Triathlon Team
- Webmaster & Apparel Coordinator

Sojourner

Sep 30, 08 9:07

Post #62 of 367 (1253 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

For the average size tri guy (5'10" 160lb?) I'd say that 400w FTP is much more similar to a 4:00 mile than a 4:30 mile.

Sub 70 second 400m? One leg or two?

BIGZACH

Sep 30, 08 9:09

Post #63 of 367 (1249 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [parkito] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Now thats some funny shit right there.

What is your ST-FTP? Mine's about 680.

devashish_paul

Sep 30, 08 9:11

Post #64 of 367 (1244 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pcombs22] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Although this is my own dumb challenge, I don't plan to break any body parts doing this.

Over the next few days I will go to the track and just sprint the straightaways (accelerating to top speed) and jog the turns....that's it...no timing.

Then the second time at the track I will time myself over several 100m sections with a running start and see if I am cruising sub 20 seconds. If I can't cruise 10x100 with 100m jog at sub 20 seconds for the 100's, I will likely blow a body part going for sub 70.

Next trip to the track should be 8x200m @ 40 seconds per 400m, with hopefully a few closer to 35 seconds. If this is possible, it will be worth giving 70 seconds a shot. If I can't break 35 seconds over 200m, I will break a body part going for 400m in 70 seconds. It is one thing going hard for ~ 30 seconds....you get the first 15 seconds for free without having to use oxygen....but once you get beyond 30 seconds and the legs turn to rubber, this is exactly the time when we injure ourselves.

EDIT: Flanagan is banned from this 400m run challenge. I don't want him saying that he broke a body part running 68 seconds and has no chance at ever doing a triathlon again!!!!

Dev

(This post was edited by devashish_paul on Sep 30, 08 9:12)

BIGZACH

Sep 30, 08 9:15

Post #65 of 367 (1236 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I wonder if any of us could get into a local high school track meet this spring and run the 400 meter dash, "unattached", out in lane 9? Nobody would mind.

White Goodman

Sep 30, 08 9:46

Post #66 of 367 (1200 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [kdw] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hilarious...

On a serious note, what is the accepted definition of Functional Threshold Power (FTP)? I always believed this to be the highest average power you can produce for 60 minutes of continuous effort.

There seem to be endless formulas used to estimate FTP based on intervals anywhere from 30 minutes down to 5 minutes. Personally, I've found the 2 x 8min test to yield a very high estimation of FTP. Anything under 20 minutes seems like quite a mathematical stretch in terms of accuracy.

Why so many ways to estimate FTP when all you have to do is kill yourself on the trainer for 60 minutes and right down a number? The rationale always seems to be the time required for such a test, boredom, and/or training stress of such an effort. Besides revealing your true FTP, I assume such an effort provides several mental and physical benefits. Its not like you'd conduct such a test every week, so I fail to see how it would be detrimental.

A second choice over some extrapolated number would seem to be whatever your ride history on Cycling Peaks shows for a best ever 60 minute average.

Just curious why all the math for something that is so easily discoverable. I have trouble accepting a calculated value as my 60MP (FTP) if I've averaged that for 60 minutes. Of course, I much prefer the numbers I can generate with a various formulas, but really, what's the point? So I go out and try a 40K TT at an estimated output, and explode at 25 minutes... and then try to explain it by figure I just couldn't maintain my FTP on that day?

marsh283

Sep 30, 08 9:51

Post #67 of 367 (1184 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

3 years ago in high school I was a 400m sprinter and I turned in 53 sec 400's....yes Ive come a looong way, but im sure i could break 70

kdw

Sep 30, 08 9:55

Post #68 of 367 (1181 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [marsh283] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In 15 years you can still say "I could do a 53s 400m." and not be lying...

marsh283

Sep 30, 08 9:59

Post #69 of 367 (1168 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [kdw] [In reply to]	Can't Post

For sure. Like I said, I was a sprinter in HS and played soccer. I wasnt in CC or any distance related sport. Prior to triathlons (this is my first year) running a 10k w/o stopping would have been funny

Murphy'sLaw

Sep 30, 08 10:06

Post #70 of 367 (1156 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [kdw] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I never did better than :57 for 400m in HS. 2:05 800m PB.
Does it matter that both of those times are now nearly 25 years old? ;-)
(on the plus side, I'm much faster now at distances of 5k and above, by a huge amount)

Dev - I'm still nursing a slightly bum wheel, so I'm going to hafta take a pass on your fun challenge.
No need to break anything worse than it already is. I've got much bigger fish to fry very shortly.

Assuming I survive A-Z in one piece, and still actually feel like running at some point thereafter, I may give it a go then.
I did some very lame ~300m repeats this am (more like an extended Strides set), and my times were very subpar, compared to what I did just 3 weeks ago in prep for Demi Esprit.

Have fun!

float , hammer , and jog

On ST hiatus from 11/1/08 until Spring '09

Tribato

Sep 30, 08 10:09

Post #71 of 367 (1146 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Then line up and pull off your fastest 400m. You can pick inside, outside or lane 4....your choice. Record your time and post here on ST. Show us how studly you really are.

aaarrrggghhh!!! did you hear that? that was the sound of my hamstring snapping just by reading this thread...i'm in if you wait for me to lose the 25 lbs that i've gained since i was a sub 5:00 miler :)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

MuffinTop

Sep 30, 08 10:16

Post #72 of 367 (1132 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [White Goodman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your method is good, but it yields an unsatisfactorily low number. So people use other methods, as these yield higher numbers with less effort.
--
"Oh no, it's the dreaded Muffin Top!" --Mythbusters
http://willronco.com

pjcampbell

Sep 30, 08 10:22

Post #73 of 367 (1118 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [eganski] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is a great point. a track does not lie. So many variables on a bike. Starting with your method of recording power and going forward. I do not generally talk about my power #s ever unless its with respect to a pure hill climb. I am a (bicycle) hill climber at heart. a hill climb TT is the most pure event there is in cycling. No drafting... it doesn't help (if its steep enough). You've either got it or not. For long events, you also need to be smart... When you are on your own, on a 1 hour long climb and you feel great, it is one of the toughest things to go hold out. On a TT aerodynamics come in to play but -- if you are weaker than me and faster than me then you are still a better rider!!!

FWIW, I'm not a runner, haven't run in 10 years minus 2 completely random races within the past year, and I'll bet I can do a 70 second 400. But I don't think this # really means much in the realm of an hour long to 6 hour long race. :)

With regard to FTP...

I can tell you 2x8 means nothing with regard to FTP. 2x8 tells you how much power you can do for 8 minutes with a break in between.

On the flip side I think that a 2x20 can give you a pretty close #. I feel like in theory 2x20 should yield much higher than your actual FTP but for me it does not seem to be the case. My 2x20 in training is about my FTP on race day. I think part of this is because there is never power like race day power.

(This post was edited by pjcampbell on Sep 30, 08 10:28)

White Goodman

Sep 30, 08 10:37

Post #74 of 367 (1093 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [pjcampbell] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree completely with your assessment of 2 x 8min... I raised the concern with a certain coaching establishment and provided with endless justifications. Shortly thereafter, I stopped drinking their brand of Kool Aid.

I'll try 2 x 20 this winter on the trainer for something new. Thanks for the reply.

Hid

Sep 30, 08 10:37

Post #75 of 367 (1093 views)

Re: 400W FTP/Sub 4:30 mile/Sub 4:30 400m.....Run sub 70 second 400m challenge [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Man...Dev has the off season already hit you this bad!!! ;-)

Let's see - high school 4:13 mile - held the record for something like 13 years and I was just a soccer player who never ran for the school.

30 years old - 4:50 mile and a 2:32 mary

Fast forward to today. I would hurt myself and be pucking trying to run that fast :D Embarrasing enough...after getting married, moving several times, selling a home, buying a new home, remodeling it, starting two companies and taking four years off...I am not even close to being in shape for this challenge. I know...a ton of excuses but I like to type them because they are motivating me to get back on some type of work, family, personal life schedule.

Anyway, I think you challenge is great because many people don't realize what it takes to run or swim at those speeds or even bike with that much power.

"it's like information without the facts." - Mr. Tibbs

"it's not posted to a triathlon forum, but to a lifestyle forum that happens to be inhabited by triathletes. all kinds of stuff gets posted here, and i'm grateful that it does. - Dan Empfield aka Slowman
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0what%20to%20;#65849

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