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Slowtwitch Forums: The Womens:
Let's talk shoes.

mmrocker13

Sep 9, 08 6:16

Post #1 of 19 (587 views)

Let's talk shoes.	Can't Post

Running shoes, I mean.

I'm looking to switch shoes... I was a devoted fan of the asics DS trainers--the 10s and the 11s. The 12s were terrible. But everyone said the 13s were an improvement, so I tried them, and I have to say, I'm not crazy about them. They feel too boxy and stiff, and the toes seem much narrower while the midfoot/arch is too wide.

I'm 5'9.5", 137...so neither big nor small. Have bad knees (left knee, in particular), and very high arches.

What I'm looking for:
Lightweight (about 9 oz or less)
Neutral/performance to mild stability
I have smallish feet--street shoe size is 7-7.5; running shoe is 7.5-8... but my feet are square, so I need something that fits my wider forefoot, but doesn't slip off my heel.
Good for running sockless (the 13s are TERRIBLE for it.)
Glove-like/socklike fit.
Flexible

I have tried and tried New Balance with no success--I find them to be like running with planks strapped to my feet. I also can't get a Pearl Izumi to fit. I'm sort of "between" two sizes.

So...anyone have any suggestions?

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<<<<Member, 2008 Team Aquaphor. Just say No to chafing.>>>>http://www.teamaquaphoractive.com/page275.aspx

cuds

Sep 9, 08 6:59

Post #2 of 19 (573 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

My suggestion... go into a running store and try on ever single pair of shoes that is suitable to you (neutral/performance to mid-stability). We can all give you all sorts of ideas about our favorite shoes, but as you have come to realize what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. So, like I said, try them all. It will be a bit time consuming, but so worth it. I'm in a pair of shoes that I never, ever thought I'd wear and they're working great. They were the last pair I tried on, of around 13 (maybe more).
_____________________________________
Stop being such a scrotetard and htfu!

stepchild

Sep 9, 08 7:31

Post #3 of 19 (568 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Have you ever tried the Brooks Axioms?
I love mine, lightweight (not super light) mild stability shoe.
Good Luck!

QRgirl

Sep 9, 08 7:58

Post #4 of 19 (557 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [stepchild] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I was going to suggest the Brooks Axiom as well. I switched to those from the DS trainers. The toe box seems pretty wide.

Nemostrin

Sep 9, 08 8:00

Post #5 of 19 (555 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [stepchild] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I was going to mention the Axioms as well. Although..disclaimer...I have pretty high arches and have had some problems with the arch support in the Axioms not being enough. Other than that, I LOVE that shoe.

I'm trying putting in some inserts though and that's seemed to help. I hope it works b/c otherwise, I really like this shoe.

(This post was edited by Nemostrin on Sep 9, 08 8:03)

mmrocker13

Sep 9, 08 8:07

Post #6 of 19 (553 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [Nemostrin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have orthotics, so that should help a bit. Will do some research on them. In all my life, I think Brooks is one of the very few brands I've ever tried.

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<<<<Member, 2008 Team Aquaphor. Just say No to chafing.>>>>http://www.teamaquaphoractive.com/page275.aspx

earich

Sep 11, 08 9:46

Post #7 of 19 (461 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I almost recommended an insole, until I read through all the posts and saw that you have orthotics. I also recommend trying everything you can get your hands on. Brooks Axiom is one to try, as is Mizuno Elixir and Precision, Asics Speedstar, Nike Elite and Skylon, Saucony Tangent and Sinister. Those are all I can think of right now, but check em' out, run around in em' and hopefully one will feel perfect!!! Good Luck!
Elizabeth

banana

Sep 11, 08 20:11

Post #8 of 19 (407 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"In all my life, I think Brooks is one of the very few brands I've ever tried." -- Well, at 32 minus nine days, we've lived through the cheap years for Brooks, didn't we? They were pretty much a K-Mart brand for awhile there weren't they?

I have a high arch, normal forefoot and a narrow heel. I've been wearing the Brooks Glycerin for three years now. I've been through eight pair now. Fortunately, more than half of those pairs were either closeouts or from the outlet in Seattle. It's actually the first time every I've been partial to a specific model.

Brooks to me have the fit of Saucony but they seem to feel better when running.... and I don't get crushed toes the way I do in Mizunos.

I also bought an older model "racing flat" from their outlet a few weeks ago. So far so good. It seems like a more substantial shoe than other flats I've seen. Given that I've only ever raced in normal runner, these are a good start. So far I've gone 5km sockless without any trouble. (I'll let you know Monday how 10km sockless feels!)

I'd have a look at their line-up. Sounds like your foot shape suits them...

jenhs

Sep 11, 08 21:06

Post #9 of 19 (400 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

All I've ver worn is Brooks. Started with the Beast, moved to the adrenaline and now use the Glycerin. Good neutral shoe with cushion. I get all mine on sale somewhere because I don't care which model year they are. Great shoe company.
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Jenhs

mmrocker13

Sep 12, 08 7:11

Post #10 of 19 (385 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [banana] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Happy pre-b-day, nanner. ;-)

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<<<<Member, 2008 Team Aquaphor. Just say No to chafing.>>>>http://www.teamaquaphoractive.com/page275.aspx

banana

Sep 12, 08 7:41

Post #11 of 19 (379 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [jenhs] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You're in Seattle area, right? Last month the outlet at Bothel had a big inventory of the Glycerin 5 for $35. The Auburn store had a few pair too, but no 8s. I'm regretting only buying two pair!

kitboo

Sep 12, 08 9:20

Post #12 of 19 (364 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

IMHO, Saucony's have a wide toe box and narrow heel. They even come in wide sizes without much widening of the heel fit in those sizes.
I agree with the other Womens about looking into getting orthodics. If you are in the Seattle area, I recommend Dr. Larry Maurer in Kirkland. He's a runner. I had terrible knee problems and was told by several orthopedic surgeons that I couldn't run more than 10K without injuring myself. I saw Dr. Larry about 6 years ago, got some orthodics, and have since completed several HIM's and an IM without knee pain or injury.

curlygirl

Sep 12, 08 10:31

Post #13 of 19 (354 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Like I could not see this and not respond (insert rolling eyes emoticon here).

I think you should try out the Brooks Racer ST, which has been very popular as a race shoe that works for training too. It's got unisex sizing b/c technically it's a racing shoe, so you'll need the corresponding men's size (for you, likely 6.5). The Axiom is probably a bit more substantial than what you're after.

Although. I have to say. I would question your stability shoe/orthotic combination, and wonder if your knees would be happier in a neutral shoe with no orthotic. Sore knees and high arches+stability shoe and orthotics screams "overcorrected" in my experience. But of course, as we've discussed before, I've never seen you run or even your feet. You'll lose enough weight by ditching the orthotic that you could use a "normal weight" trainer and still have shoes that weigh the same as your shoe+orthotic combo.

It would be an experiment, so I'd either search for a clearance shoe in case it doesn't work, or go to the fullest service running store you can find with the best return policy out there, but which will let you return worn shoes.

As for neutral models to try: for you I would try the Mizuno Rider. The new last might work on your feet, and the current version is actually doing a decent job at controlling mild overpronation. Or, the Brooks Ghost, which just came out and we can't keep it in stock (although it runs VERY short -- most people have to size up at least a half size from what they normally wear in running shoes. I wear an 8 or 8.5 in street shoes, a 9 in most running shoes, and a 9.5 in the Ghost).

mmrocker13

Sep 12, 08 12:59

Post #14 of 19 (338 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [curlygirl] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey curly...

The orthotics are pretty light--cork/neoprene, and I also take out the shoe insole, so I'm really losing or gaining much there. The orthotics are actually for my knees as opposed to my feet, if that makes any sense. Because my one leg is so bad, I use them to "even me out" so to speak, and to redistribute some of the load.

I can run in either a neutral or a light stability shoe--both of which are recommended by both the podiatrist and the orthopod. As long as it's not super overcorrective, I'm okay. I have run in the rider--my big issue with switching was I could never get them to break in well (esp. for sockless running). I did prefer them to the Precisions though, whicih I felt were too stiff.

Sigh. I really wish people would leave well enough alone with shoes (as if I haven't been saying THAT for 20 some years.)

What do you think about the 903s? Are they substantially different than the 902s?

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<<<<Member, 2008 Team Aquaphor. Just say No to chafing.>>>>http://www.teamaquaphoractive.com/page275.aspx

jenhs

Sep 12, 08 13:53

Post #15 of 19 (327 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [banana] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dammitt! My hubby gets his bonus on Monday. I might need to take a trip up there....always trouble...
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Jenhs

curlygirl

Sep 12, 08 16:17

Post #16 of 19 (315 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [mmrocker13] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You don't seem to have had much luck with NB in the past. The 903 wasn't supposed to be much different, but we didn't have the 902, and found a lot of demand for them, so brought in the 903s, and they, well, they sit there and don't move at all. That doesn't mean that they're not better than the 902 -- a lot of times people ask for things and then don't like them when they try them on, so who knows.

Still. I'd try the ST Racer (the Brooks equivalent) or the Tangent (Saucony's equivalent), before the 903.

Or better, the Asics Speedstar. They were my barefoot tri shoe forever in the last version, and my teammate is running in the new version so far so good. Neutral.

dupeetriclub

Sep 14, 08 9:03

Post #17 of 19 (264 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [jenhs] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hmm... I'm fairly certain that the Beast and the Adrenaline [Brooks] are mild stability shoes... did the person/store selling them to you tell you different? The Glycerin is definitely their "higher end" neutral shoe, though!

Anywhoo... I am a fan of the Asics Landreth, but they might not be quite light enough for you. Otherwise, the Nimbus? But again, these are both probably a bit heavier than the DS Trainer, which always seemed to be more of a 'racing' shoe to me.

I used to wear the Mizuno Creations, until they COMPLETELY changed them :(

cuds

Sep 14, 08 9:19

Post #18 of 19 (259 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [dupeetriclub] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Hmm... I'm fairly certain that the Beast and the Adrenaline [Brooks] are mild stability shoes...

Ack! The Beast (and it's actually the Ariel for women's version... their website is screwy lol) is about the highest motion control shoe on the market. There are very few people who should actually be in this shoe. In the three years I worked in a specialty running store I only put these shoes on two people: both male, both excessively overweight, both excessive pronators. EDIT: both unwilling to explore the idea of orthotics (thanks for reminding me of that point Jen).
_____________________________________
Stop being such a scrotetard and htfu!

(This post was edited by cuds on Sep 14, 08 9:45)

jenhs

Sep 14, 08 9:42

Post #19 of 19 (256 views)

Re: Let's talk shoes. [dupeetriclub] [In reply to]	Can't Post

When I wore the Beast I was overweight and wasn't wearing orthotics. Once I got the orthotics I went down to the Adrenaline for less stability and was still having problems. It finally dawn on me that I was probably getting too much correction between the orthotic and the shoe and changed to the Glycerin and haven't had problems since. Love them!
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Jenhs