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Slowtwitch Forums: Lavender Room:
Why Are You Voting Republican?

 
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lakerfan

Oct 4, 08 11:42

Post #1 of 63 (882 views)
Why Are You Voting Republican? Can't Post
I'd really like to hear some intelligent responses as to why you would vote republican. I was raised a right-wing republican my entire life and had never voted for a single democrat until I observed two things:

1. Shift in republican principles when Bush came into office.

2. What Bush did in office between 2000 - 2004 was criminal, imho, let alone what he's done between 2004 - 2008.

I voted for Bush in 2000 but you couldn't have paid me money to vote for him again in 2004. Given what I'm observing from the republican party these days, I will never vote republican again. I know there are some really smart people out there planning to vote republican this year. But, for the life of me, I can't imagine why. So, please, tell me. I would explain my feelings and observations further but I'd probably just end up offending someone -- I'm sure I've offended someone just writing what I've written so far. But I'm not interested in a flame war. I just want to hear why you would vote republican.

Thoughtful responses appreciated.

Thanks, Chris


BarryP

Oct 4, 08 11:51

Post #2 of 63 (870 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
Given what I'm observing from the republican party these days, I will never vote republican again.
 
For a large swath of society, there's your answer.


A large portion of people vote for "the home team" and put little thought beyond that. You can see the arguments here in the LR as well as elsewhere. My greatest example is a coworker who didn't want to vote for Obama because he's "rich" and could not posibly understand what goes on with common people. A few weeks later he learned that McCain was orders of magnitude wealthier than Obama. All of the sudden, wealth no longer mattered. The reality is that his reason was BS from the start. He didn't want to vote for Obama because he's a Democrat.

Regarding your statement above, there was an initial backlash against the Democrat party when the Civil Rights bill was passed, but then a further backlash in the late 60s and early 70s during the Vietnam War and the radical hippie movement / mistreatment of veterans. Combine this with the "moral majority" take over of the heart land and the election of a really likeable Republican President in Ronald Reagan (following really hard economic times).

Point being, many people at that time decided "I will never vote Democrat again."
______________________________________________

-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach

RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.


last tri in 83

Oct 4, 08 12:16

Post #3 of 63 (847 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
There is not a conservative to vote for so the next best thing would be the libertarian candidate. He will never win so that would be wasting my vote.

Obama is not an option with me.

So that leaves McCain. With him I get maybe 60% of what I like. I know he will protect the homeland and probably not do too much damage in taxes. Best I can do this time around. I like Palin on the ticket.

_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.


parkito

Oct 4, 08 12:33

Post #4 of 63 (835 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [BarryP] [In reply to] Can't Post
A large portion of people vote for "the home team" and put little thought beyond that. You can see the arguments here in the LR as well as elsewhere.

The premise of your argument, and it is nonpartisan. Your argument works for people voting for both Republicans and Democrats. Yet, you make a conclusion as to why people vote Republican.

Not just twisted logic, but tortured.

Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)


jenhs

Oct 4, 08 12:37

Post #5 of 63 (828 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [parkito] [In reply to] Can't Post
The question posed by Chris is why you are voting Republican?

I'm interested in reading these responses as well and hope this thread stays on track and doesn't disolved into name calling.

This will be my only comment as I'm not voting Republican. (duh.)
----------------
Jenhs


DawnT

Oct 4, 08 12:42

Post #6 of 63 (821 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [parkito] [In reply to] Can't Post
Yet, you make a conclusion as to why people vote Republican.

That's the subject of this thread and therefore his conclusion makes sense.

I will be supporting Obama in this election, but I'm voting for the Conservatives here in Canada on October 14th. Now mind you, conservatism in Canada isn't the same as conservatism in the US, but it is less liberal than the rest of them.

I don't think anyone should vote for or against a party. Voting for the republican guy simply because he's a republican is not right. Similarly, I don't think you should say that you'll never vote republican again. The democrats could screw up just as easily or put up a candidate that is someone you just can't support. I could see myself voting republican in the future, but for right now, I believe Obama is the right person for the position.


chainpin

Oct 4, 08 12:46

Post #7 of 63 (814 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [jenhs] [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
The question posed by Chris is why you are voting Republican?

I'm interested in reading these responses as well and hope this thread stays on track and doesn't disolved into name calling.

This will be my only comment as I'm not voting Republican. (duh.)
 
As long as YaHey stays out of it I'm sure there won't be... : )

"Capitalism is tough on the participants that get beat by it."
Crapola


Local Star

Oct 4, 08 12:54

Post #8 of 63 (804 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
Obama's ideals and ambitions scare me.

We don't need someone out to fix the world, let's fix the U.S. first.
Pledging $50 billion for world hunger isn't in my agenda.
Growing government to make sure everyone is hunky-dory isn't my cup of tea either. No free handouts.
..................................................................................
Silverman 1/2 Distance: November 9th 2008
Swim with drive, Ride with passion, Run with heart...
If you can't do that, don't toe up the start.


Aztec

Oct 4, 08 12:54

Post #9 of 63 (804 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
Because the Democrats are almost fully responsible for this financial crisis. They simply cannot be given even more control.

**************
Too grumpy from various injuries to have a signature line.






cerveloguy

Oct 4, 08 13:07

Post #10 of 63 (785 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [Aztec] [In reply to] Can't Post
"the Democrats are almost fully responsible for this financial crisis"

Have you been asleep for the past eight years? Believe what you wish to believe.

"OK, I'll admit I screwed up the facts"


spot

Oct 4, 08 13:17

Post #11 of 63 (770 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
My vote is really not Republican per se, its more anti-Obama. As I've said on earlier posts, I am pretty disenchanted with this whole election.

Obama concerns me mainly in three ways. First, I think that his policies saddle businesses with too many hits to their bottom line. This is straight from his website:

Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. (Note: Obama's website does say that they will try to offset small business expenses with a tax credit, but I would bet that there would still be an increase in costs to small businesess)

Raise the Minimum Wage to $9.50 an Hour by 2011: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that people who work full time should not live in poverty. Before the Democrats took back Congress, the minimum wage had not changed in 10 years. As president, Obama will further raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation.

Expand Paid Sick Days: Half of all private sector workers have no paid sick days and the problem is worse for employees in low-paying jobs, where less than a quarter receive any paid sick days. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will require that employers provide seven paid sick days per year.

Expand the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA): The FMLA covers only certain employees of employers with 50 or more employees. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand the FMLA to cover businesses with 25 or more employees. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand the FMLA to cover more purposes as well, including allowing workers to take leave for elder care needs; allowing parents up to 24 hours of leave each year to participate in their children's academic activities at school; allowing leave to be taken for purposes of caring for individuals who reside in their home for 6 months or more; and expanding FMLA to cover leave for employees to address domestic violence and sexual assault.

Create Automatic Workplace Pensions: The Obama-Biden retirement security plan will automatically enroll workers in a workplace pension plan. Under their plan, employers who do not currently offer a retirement plan, will be required to enroll their employees in a direct-deposit IRA account that is compatible to existing direct-deposit payroll systems

Those are just specific new burdens on businesses large and small. The other thing that one should do is to look at all the things that Obama promises to "invest" in, and his middle-class tax cut. There is billions upon billions of dollars in new or expanded programs. Where is that money coming from? There are only so many places to raise taxes, either on the people or corporations, and he has promised to give the middle class a large tax cut, so there are only the wealthy and businesses left.

Secondly, his comments in the past and his current website gives me pause when considering Obama as the commander in chief. I honestly don't think he's got the knowledge. I don't think he understands the goals of the global jihadist movement and how Bin Laden got Al Qaeda started, and the strategic consequences of allowing a base of operations for terrorists in Iraq. I base this on my reading of books such as "Ghost Wars", "Future Jihad", and "The Looming Tower". Its important to make sure that the Islamic fundamentalists and Jihadists are not allowed to create a sanctuary in Iraq. We cannot and must not withdraw until we can be sure that Iraq's internal security forces and government will ensure that will not happen. Yet Obama has promised a 16-month timetable for complete withdrawal, and I think its unwise in the extreme to let the enemy know exactly how long he has to bide his time. I note that his website is full of double-speak like this:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war.

So, while we must be careful, immediately upon entering office, he is going to give orders to end the war. Doesn't exactly sound too careful to me. He goes on to say: Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. Yet I couldn't find mention of a single "expert" on his site. I would also note that Linda Robinson, (author of "Tell Me How This Ends", an excellent book on the "surge" and Gen Petraeus, and who is no fan of the Iraq war or Bush) repeatedly dismisses the idea of a timetable for withdrawal as a "one-shot" tactic that will lessen US leverage with the Iraqi government, not strengthen it.

His website goes on to say this:

Resurgent Al Qaeda in Afghanistan: The decision to invade Iraq diverted resources from the war in Afghanistan, making it harder for us to kill or capture Osama Bin Laden and others involved in the 9/11 attacks. Nearly seven years later, the Taliban has reemerged in southern Afghanistan while Al Qaeda has used the space provided by the Iraq war to regroup, train and plan for another attack on the United States. I would note that the problem in Afghanistan, while perhaps linked to too few forces, is more closely linked to the fact that the Taliban and Al Qaeda have a sanctuary across the border in Pakistan. Its no coincidence that things started going south in Afghanistan after Musharraf decided to have a "hands-off" policy towards the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.

Lastly, this is also from his website, regarding the success of the surge: It is also a consequence of the decision of many Sunnis to turn against al Qaeda in Iraq. Quite right, he is. However, has Obama considered how those Sunnis will fare without US protection? They have been able to turn against Al Qaeda largely because of US protection. If the US begins completely pulling out without making sure that the Sunnis who joined us against Al Qaeda are protected, and that the Shi'a majority bring them into the fold, things in Iraq could go south in a hurry there as well. I would also note that its interesting that in previous incarnations of Obama's website, he implied that there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq, and now AQI is sprinkled all throughout his "Iraq Issues" page.

Obama has also made some comments that I think are incompatible with being CINC. I found his comment about all the US is doing in Afghanistan is "air-raiding villages and killing civilians" to be offensive. He has also said in the past that he would issue orders to the Joint Chiefs of Staff to end the war in Iraq, demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about the military and who is actually in charge (its not the JCS; they are not part of the National Command Authority...the Combatant Commanders answer to the Secretary of Defense who answers to the President). Obama has since fixed that on his website, but it bothers me that someone with Presidential aspirations would make such a gaffe in the first place.

Lastly, if you listen to Obama's speeches and look at his website, he is promising huge new "investments" in all sorts of programs (from health care to energy to education, and on and on), yet he doesn't state how is going to pay for all of them. While I don't necessarily disagree with all of the programs, I would like to know how he intends to pay for all of this, and cut taxes on the middle class at the same time. It just seems ludicrous to me.

So, there are my reasons for not voting for Obama.

Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."


cerveloguy

Oct 4, 08 13:18

Post #12 of 63 (770 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [DawnT] [In reply to] Can't Post
"Now mind you, conservatism in Canada isn't the same as conservatism in the US"

I'd say the CDN Conservative Party aligns itself near the Democrats with the Liberals and NDP moving further left. We do have pockets of genuine conservatism in Canada, particularly in parts of rural Alberta, but as a society we are more liberal both politically and socially than is the USA. There was a good article about Canadian vs American differences in McLean's not too long ago.

"OK, I'll admit I screwed up the facts"


BarryP

Oct 4, 08 13:18

Post #13 of 63 (770 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [parkito] [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
The premise of your argument, and it is nonpartisan. Your argument works for people voting for both Republicans and Democrats. Yet, you make a conclusion as to why people vote Republican.

Not just twisted logic, but tortured.
 
Two points:

#1 - The OP was "why are you voting Republican?" In answering the OP I am in no way obligated to answer "Why are you voting Democrat?" So being that the same conclusion can be drawn for voting for Democrats does not falsify the argument.

#2 - Despite not being obligated to explain why many people vote Democrat, I thought it was pretty obvious when I quoted lakerfan and explained that the very experiences that lead him to decided that he will "never vote Republican again," that I was acknowledging the fact that it, in fact, works both ways. I didn't see any need to argue the "given" information. It had already been accepted.


My boss is a really intelligent guy, but will be voting Republican for the very same reason that he thinks that Hondas are unreliable piece of shit cars that break down all the time. He made that decision 35 years ago and has been stubborn and closd minded about it ever since. He ain't the only one.
______________________________________________

-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach

RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.


cerveloguy

Oct 4, 08 13:20

Post #14 of 63 (767 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [BarryP] [In reply to] Can't Post
"He made that decision 35 years ago and has been stubborn and closd minded about it ever since"

LOL!! My ex father in law. Voted the same way his entire life and only ever drove a Buick.

"OK, I'll admit I screwed up the facts"


slowguy

Oct 4, 08 13:26

Post #15 of 63 (759 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [parkito] [In reply to] Can't Post
"Yet, you make a conclusion as to why people vote Republican. "

Shocking! Shocking, I say, except,...oh yeah, that was the question asked by the OP.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)


Dapper Dan

Oct 4, 08 13:27

Post #16 of 63 (759 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [last tri in 83] [In reply to] Can't Post
There is not a conservative to vote for so the next best thing would be the libertarian candidate. He will never win so that would be wasting my vote.

By that logic you should either not vote or vote Obama since he is the only one who will win and any vote for a candidate that loses is "wasted" in your words.

Any vote for "the lesser of two evils" is a vote in support of limiting the election to two parties. If you'd like to see more options, more candidates included in the debates, and fair treatment for 3rd parties on ballot access, then vote for someone besides McCain or Obama.


BarryP

Oct 4, 08 13:27

Post #17 of 63 (760 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [cerveloguy] [In reply to] Can't Post
It was funny the day he told me he'd never drive a Honda and how terrible they were. He proceded to tell me what pieces of crap they were because of one he drove in 1975. He was...swear to God...utterly clueless about their current reputation.
______________________________________________

-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach

RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.


Clutch Cargo

Oct 4, 08 13:32

Post #18 of 63 (755 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
Yes I'm voting for John McCain.

Upcoming Supreme Court appointments

national security/ military experience
School choice
Reduce corporate tax rate 35 to 25
Reduce estate tax rate


(This post was edited by Clutch Cargo on Oct 4, 08 13:51)


slowguy

Oct 4, 08 13:35

Post #19 of 63 (746 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [lakerfan] [In reply to] Can't Post
To the OP:

Are you specifically looking for reasons why people are voting for the Republican nominee for the Presidency, or are you speaking more generally, to include Republican nominees for various other offices that are on the ballot?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)


last tri in 83

Oct 4, 08 14:41

Post #20 of 63 (713 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [Dapper Dan] [In reply to] Can't Post
That's all well and good but in theory, but until an attractive third party candidate comes along it would still be wasting my vote.

_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.


fitzie

Oct 4, 08 16:27

Post #21 of 63 (662 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [Aztec] [In reply to] Can't Post
Because the Democrats are almost fully responsible for this financial crisis. They simply cannot be given even more control.

I am going to say this for the last time on the financial crisis which was years in the making: THEY ARE ALL TO BLAME. Dems and Repubs in Congress, Wall Street, Commericial Banks, Mortgage Brokers, Investment Banks, Homeowners, Real Estate Agents, the Bush Administration, the Clinton Administration, The Fed, The Treasury, who am I missing?
Lobbyists! My favorite.



"We thought that we had the answers, it was the questions we had wrong."
Bono


mike419

Oct 4, 08 18:22

Post #22 of 63 (617 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [spot] [In reply to] Can't Post
As a business person your post is 'spot' on to me. His proposals for nearly $1B in new spending are unibeliavble.

In answer to the first post, I am voting Replican for the reasons Spot cited as well as the Pro Life stance of the GOP. I would love to vote for a true conservative but McCain will have to do.


parkito

Oct 4, 08 20:19

Post #23 of 63 (580 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [cerveloguy] [In reply to] Can't Post
"the Democrats are almost fully responsible for this financial crisis"

Have you been asleep for the past eight years? Believe what you wish to believe.

Fortunately for you, you have the luxury of keeping your head buried in the sand. You're not the one who will be paying.

Installment number 2 or 3, depending on how you prefer to count, just cost us over $800 billion. With Obama at the helm to complete Act 3, who knows if anyone will be left standing.

Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)


TripleThreat

Oct 4, 08 20:29

Post #24 of 63 (500 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [Clutch Cargo] [In reply to] Can't Post
School choice

Please research what this really means, how it would really play out, and what the likely end result would realistically be. I know at McCain's website he doesn't have much info outside of "parents should be able to choose", but please research it further. It will not help struggling schools, it will certainly hurt high performing schools, and it will hurt both types of schools by ensuring that more money is spent on transportation versus learning.

=======================

-- At 211 degrees water is hot. At 212 degrees water boils. Boiling water produces steam. You can power a locomotive with steam. Will you supply the extra degree that makes all the difference? ---



cerveloguy

Oct 4, 08 20:29

Post #25 of 63 (482 views)
Re: Why Are You Voting Republican? [parkito] [In reply to] Can't Post
"With Obama at the helm "

Uh, isn't McCain also supporting this bailout and also supported the deregulation that is a significant part to do with this mess. Whoever wins the US election will be left with an awful mess to clean up, and will be likely be (wrongfully) blamed for creating it. In this regard it almost seems like a good time to lose an election.

"OK, I'll admit I screwed up the facts"

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