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Slowtwitch Forums: Lavender Room:
Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot

 

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YaHey

Feb 15, 06 6:27

Post #1 of 42 (454 views)
Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot Can't Post





And he had the guts to critizice Kerry.

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stl_triness

Feb 15, 06 6:43

Post #2 of 42 (441 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

What the hell does a war record have to to with anything?




YaHey

Feb 15, 06 7:47

Post #3 of 42 (415 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post

What the hell does a war record have to to with anything?

Only that he probably saved countless American lives by weasling out of going to Vietnam.

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stl_triness

Feb 15, 06 7:59

Post #4 of 42 (408 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

So only those with personal records of service can criticize or comment on our Armed Forces? Are those the rules? Good, I'll remember that the next time Iraq comes up...


YaHey

Feb 15, 06 8:05

Post #5 of 42 (405 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post

criticize or comment on our Armed Forces?

I'm just saying that I'm glad he didn't serve. He would would have killed other Americans who would have been in the line of his fire. You know, people who didn't warn him they were behind him.

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Brian.

Feb 15, 06 8:41

Post #6 of 42 (388 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just saying that I'm glad he didn't serve. He would would have killed other Americans who would have been in the line of his fire. You know, people who didn't warn him they were behind him.


So Cheney is only guilty of friendly fire?

You best do some checking. You'll find that accidents in warfare happen quite a bit.

A quick check.

Stonewall Jackson died of friendly fire. Pat Tillman.

14% of soldiers in Vietname killed by friendly fire (8k). 16% in WWII.


steveperx

Feb 15, 06 8:44

Post #7 of 42 (381 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just saying that I'm glad he didn't serve. He would would have killed other Americans who would have been in the line of his fire. You know, people who didn't warn him they were behind him.

I hope that's a joke. If not, then do I really need to point out how ridiculous that comment was?


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Steve Perkins


Haondotri

Feb 15, 06 9:52

Post #8 of 42 (345 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't be the first time the Rove machine doctored a picture of Kerry. Remember the one of him and Jane Fonda at an anti-war rally??? The guy who actually took the photo produced the original and lo and behold, Kerry wasn't there!
_____________________________________


You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones


TripleThreat

Feb 15, 06 9:56

Post #9 of 42 (339 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

How much more out of hand can the conclusions from the hunting accident get?

=======================

-- At 211 degrees water is hot. At 212 degrees water boils. Boiling water produces steam. You can power a locomotive with steam. Will you supply the extra degree that makes all the difference? ---



YaHey

Feb 15, 06 10:01

Post #10 of 42 (335 views)
Post deleted by YaHey [In reply to]

 


stl_triness

Feb 15, 06 10:03

Post #11 of 42 (332 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post

Am I the only one here that remembers being shot in the ass with a BB as a kid? I mean really...


Haondotri

Feb 15, 06 10:09

Post #12 of 42 (324 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Am I the only one here that remembers being shot in the ass with a BB as a kid? I mean really...

  Ummmm yeah, shot in the ass with a BB........shot in the face with a shotgun, intensive care, heart attack......yeah, just the same.
_____________________________________


You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones


peter826

Feb 15, 06 10:10

Post #13 of 42 (323 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post

That gun doesn't have a magazine in it, does it?


Haondotri

Feb 15, 06 10:34

Post #14 of 42 (309 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [peter826] [In reply to] Can't Post

No but you should always treat every weapon as loaded.
_____________________________________


You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones


stl_triness

Feb 15, 06 10:37

Post #15 of 42 (307 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [peter826] [In reply to] Can't Post

Not that is matters, but yeah, most of our BB guns as kids did have magazines, or at least a hopper type of device to store a bunch of them. And BBs are what he was hit with...except not in the ass.


tri_bri2

Feb 15, 06 10:41

Post #16 of 42 (303 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [peter826] [In reply to] Can't Post

You can still have a round in the chamber in an M-16 with the magazine removed.


stl_triness

Feb 15, 06 10:44

Post #17 of 42 (299 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post

Whoops, my bad. My ADD catching up with me. I guess you were responding the the pic of Gore I posted earlier.


big kahuna

Feb 15, 06 11:18

Post #18 of 42 (287 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [TripleThreat] [In reply to] Can't Post

How much more out of hand can the conclusions from the hunting accident get?

Plenty. Especially from people who have no experience of either hunting or being in combat. Something to chew on from an experienced hunter:




I've been waiting to get the verdict on Dick Cheney's hunting accident from one of the most experienced hunters I know, my older brother. He sends the following assessment. Note that the tone struck by a veteran hunter is considerably less hysterical than that adopted by the press corps yesterday. And, unlike Dana Milbank, I don't think he'll consider it necessary to wear blaze orange if he passes by the Naval Observatory:
Cheney was shooting a 28-gauge shotgun. That's closer to a .410 than a 12-gauge; it's a little gun.

Hunting quail--a little bird--they'd be shooting 6 or 8-shot, I suppose. This is not like shooting 20-lb geese. I suspect that the biggest quail on earth weighs a pound. The point of the tiny shot is to do little damage to the meat. References to "buck-shot" and "B-B"s are ridiculous. At 30 yards, buck and B-Bs might be lethal. The risk with light bird loads is the eyes.

I'm struck by the fact that the victim is 78 years old. I assume that he is a seasoned hunter. (This assumption is based on his age and that he's from Texas; I assume that he's been hunting a long time, or he wouldn't have been hunting with Cheney. On the other hand, he's an old lawyer and maybe a political ally who doesn't know the second thing about flushing parties. Who knows? But up here we have plenty of examples of city-folk who are incredible safety-liabilities every year. And it's hard to just walk away from important people on a hunt because they don't know what they're doing.)

A lot has been made of Cheney's violation of the rule that you don't ever shoot unless you know what's behind the target. But in this case, I guess, the victim dropped out of the line of hunters and returned later without announcing his presence. When someone hustles back to join the party without telling anyone, it's hard to blame the shooter when he doesn't know he's there.

And finally, accidents happen. Several years ago, Jim S--- shot his pheasant-hunting partner of many years, Larry P---. Larry ran up into a ditch, ahead of Jim, as I recall, without warning. A pheasant jumped up between them and Jim fired, thinking Larry was beside or behind him. It's Larrys's responsibility to let Jim know where he is. (Jim was shooting substantially bigger shot from a substantually bigger gun than Cheney and the range was about the same. Jim took Larry to the hospital and they plucked the shot out of his face and neck; we had dinner together later that night. Larry felt as stupid as Jim. And why's this guy in intensive care for two days? I assume it's heart-related.)

Almost all of us hunters have been peppered with shot at one time or another. Mostly it's inconsequential and the wind plays a big part. But I will say this: lots of us have quit a hunt when we realize that the next guy is an idiot. And this, too: knowing what I think I know about Cheney, there is no one in North America who I'd rather hunt with.



T.


jhc

Feb 15, 06 11:26

Post #19 of 42 (279 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [big kahuna] [In reply to] Can't Post

Hunting quail--a little bird--they'd be shooting 6 or 8-shot, I suppose. This is not like shooting 20-lb geese. I suspect that the biggest quail on earth weighs a pound. The point of the tiny shot is to do little damage to the meat. References to "buck-shot" and "B-B"s are ridiculous. At 30 yards, buck and B-Bs might be lethal. The risk with light bird loads is the eyes.



Yeah, so the shot "migrated" to his heart how?


_______________________________________________
I love sushi, but I'd rather not have it served next to a "fish taco". - KEJ


vitus979

Feb 15, 06 11:30

Post #20 of 42 (275 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [big kahuna] [In reply to] Can't Post

Note that the tone struck by a veteran hunter

As a gun owner and hunter, that tone is BS.







"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."


Haondotri

Feb 15, 06 11:33

Post #21 of 42 (272 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [big kahuna] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But I will say this: lots of us have quit a hunt when we realize that the next guy is an idiot. And this, too: knowing what I think I know about Cheney, there is no one in North America who I'd rather hunt with.



T.

 

Your brother is an idiot.



Signed: another experienced hunter
_____________________________________


You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones


vikingstumps

Feb 15, 06 11:52

Post #22 of 42 (254 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [tritnow] [In reply to] Can't Post



peter826

Feb 15, 06 12:11

Post #23 of 42 (240 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [stl_triness] [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Whoops, my bad. My ADD catching up with me. I guess you were responding the the pic of Gore I posted earlier.

  I had no idea that was Al Gore! Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't aware Gore was in the military before he invented the Internet.


GJS

Feb 15, 06 12:46

Post #24 of 42 (226 views)
Was Cheney Drunk? [In reply to] Can't Post

since we're into speculating about this incident and posting from blogs is fair game in the Lav Room:

I'm going with the drunk theory (which I think holds about as much water as your brothers opinion):

This belongs completely in the realm of speculation, but it is speculation based on my own experiences as a criminal lawyer. Why would a media-savvy and clever man like Dick Cheney delay notifying the press and the police about an accident when a) he knew it would eventually be covered by the press and b) he knew he would be criticized for delaying release of the story?





A simple cost/benefit analysis suggests that he (or those advising him) must have believed that there was more to be gained than lost by a 14 hour delay that would eventually be made public. It is likely, therefore, that something happened during that 14 hour period which was worth the negative costs of the delay.

What is the most likely thing to happen during a 14 hour delay that is worth the negative publicity? One possibility is that it takes approximately that period of time for alcohol to dissipate in the body and no longer be subject to accurate testing. It is fairly common for people involved in alcohol-related accidents to delay reporting them until the alcohol has left the body. There is no hard evidence that this is what happened here, but we are entitled to a better explanation. We should be told whether Vice President Cheney's victim had alcohol in his system when he was taken to the hospital. Was there any alcohol at or near the hunting area? Were any in the hunting party carrying flasks (which is apparently common among hunters)? What was Cheney doing just before he went hunting? Did anyone in the hunting party have a drink? We do know that Cheney had two drunk driving convictions when he was in his early 20s, but he has apparently been clean since then.

There are certainly other explanations for the 14 hour delay, but simply postponing the inevitable publication of a damaging story is not one of them. Nor is the fact that Cheney is, by nature, a secretive man. The burden of proof has now shifted to the Vice President to explain why he made this stupid, or very clever, decision. We're waiting for his explanation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...s-delay_b_15716.html

_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts


GJS

Feb 15, 06 12:51

Post #25 of 42 (210 views)
Re: Where Elmer Fudd Cheney learned to shoot [peter826] [In reply to] Can't Post

I had no idea that was Al Gore!



Well it couldn't very well have been a picture of George or Dick in the middle of Vietnam now, could it?

_________
kangaroo -- please do not read or respond to any of my posts

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