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Wesley Clark
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last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 16:18
Post #1 of 192 (833 views)
Wesley Clark
Can't Post
What is up with this guy? He is like the Ross Perot of retired generals.
To his credit, BHO distanced himself quickly from the general's nutty remarks. Not a guy you want in your camp.
http://ap.google.com/...xZRcNaLNAsgD91KKKPO0
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
ajfranke
Jun 30, 08 16:23
Post #2 of 192 (826 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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BHO isn't distancing himself, but is letting his spokesman do it for him.
First he sends out his proxy to attack McCain's credentials to which BHO can not even pretend to approach, then he sends someone out to say not me.
Please tell me you don't buy this not so new kind of politics.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
Clutch Cargo
Jun 30, 08 16:26
Post #3 of 192 (825 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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4 stars and a long Army service,"Bitter".His transition into politics ain't workin.
Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity
Larry Kudlow
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 16:31
Post #4 of 192 (820 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [ajfranke]
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I heard that theory today. So you think this is part of a larger stategory? Maybe. I think Clark is kind of a weirdo and shooting his mouth off.
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
Old and Haggard
Jun 30, 08 16:35
Post #5 of 192 (816 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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What relevance does his Vietnam service have to do with being qualified for President?
Despite all the hue and cry, nobody has come out and answered that question. McCain himself said something in response about being proud of his service. That's a strawman, as nobody has said anything bad about his service. Nobody is questioning his patriotism (and Clark didn't do so, either).
Can you answer the question, beginning with "McCain's service is relevant to being qualified for President because..."?
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Ken Lehner
Weight-room free since 1995...
"reread klenher [sic] and pretty much skip the rest." - desert dude 5/25/2008
ajfranke
Jun 30, 08 16:38
Post #6 of 192 (812 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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This is the second time he has used these same words. He is trying to be a VP candidate. This is standard operating procedure. Have your proxy go out. Have him attack viciously. You discount it quietly via a subordinate. Nothing new here.
Had BHO wanted it shut down, he would have done it.
Clark thought Kerry's military experience was just what the country needed four years ago. Now it is not even a credential:
John Kerry has heard the thump of enemy mortars.
He's seen the flash of the tracers. He's lived the values of service and sacrifice. In the Navy, as a prosecutor, as a senator, he proved his physical courage under fire. And he's proved his moral courage too.
John Kerry fought a war, and I respect him for that. And he came home to fight a peace. And I respect him for that, too.
John Kerry's combination of physical courage and moral values is my definition of what we need as Americans in our commander in chief. And John Edwards with his leadership and extraordinary intelligence, he's going to be a great member of that command team.
John Kerry is a man who in time of war can lead us as a warrior, but in times of peace, he will heed the call of scripture to lead us in beating swords into plowshares.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
slowbern
Jun 30, 08 16:45
Post #7 of 192 (808 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
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What relevance does his Vietnam service have to do with being qualified for President?
If I were ever to run for President, I would certainly use my experience and career as a fire fighter/paramedic for all it was worth to get elected. Every person who has ever run for office with a military back ground has used it to their advantage. Senator Obama's experience as a senator and as a civil rights attorney can be used in the same way as a qualification to be President.
Why should Senator McCain's military service not be relevant?
Bernie
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"Hold on one second, sweetie."-Barack Obama
dave_w
Jun 30, 08 16:46
Post #8 of 192 (808 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
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What relevance does his Vietnam service have to do with being qualified for President?
Despite all the hue and cry, nobody has come out and answered that question. McCain himself said something in response about being proud of his service. That's a strawman, as nobody has said anything bad about his service. Nobody is questioning his patriotism (and Clark didn't do so, either).
Can you answer the question, beginning with "McCain's service is relevant to being qualified for President because..."?
Seriously? The leadership, courage, and personal fortitude exhibited by McCain during his military service goes directly to character and experience. This speaks well of McCain. Character and judgement are the sum total of what Barack is running on. Sorry, Barack has done little to nothing that would inform us of his character (or judgement), unless you want to start talking about those he has surrounded himself with on his way to where he is today.
"It's all about self-esteem"
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 16:55
Post #9 of 192 (801 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
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Seriously? He had command and administrative experience, liason to the senate. I consider protection of the homeland to be #1 on my list so I would consider his military experience to be a positive thing.
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
ajfranke
Jun 30, 08 17:17
Post #10 of 192 (786 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
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If you would prefer the John McCain's of the world who have been forged in the hottest fires a human can survive are not better equipped to deal with the Ahmadinejad's of the world than the slick lawyer whose best achievement was getting some of the asbestos removed from a housing complex that has now closed, I don't know what to say.
If so, you probably think JFK did great at the Bay of Pigs and his summit with Khruschev too, and those events had nothing to do with causing the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
MattinSF
Jun 30, 08 17:26
Post #11 of 192 (778 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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repeat after me....Democrats who served in the military....all bad, all crazy, not qualified to lead...Max Cleland, John Kerry, Wesley Clark, Joe Sestak, Jim Webb, John Murtha.
If only they had served with honor and bravery like Dubya in the Texas National Guard.
Wesley Clark was a general and John McCain was a Captain, the military obviously though that Clark had much better leadership skills than Mccain because they gave him lots more people to command. If you are claiming that command experience is important and relevant then you can't dismiss Clark as another Democratic kook.
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"Personally, I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster as he proceeds to piss off everyone."
ajfranke
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 17:31
Post #12 of 192 (774 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Clark is a kook and so is Murtha. It has nothing to do with their level of military service, they are just kooks. The other two I have no opinion on - I'm sure they are fine upstanding democrats.
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 17:36
Post #13 of 192 (768 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Can you on this day, June 30, 2008, my son's birthday, sit there with a straight face and not admit John McCain has a teensie weensie, ever-so-slight edge over BHO in the area of national defense???? Can you do it Matt?
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
MattinSF
Jun 30, 08 17:36
Post #14 of 192 (768 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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In Reply To
Clark is a kook and so is Murtha. It has nothing to do with their level of military service, they are just kooks. The other two I have no opinion on - I'm sure they are fine upstanding democrats.
I thought the military only hired the best and the brightest....and it would appear that by making Clark a general, they thought he was the very best of the best and brightest.
Clark is only a kook because he is taking a shot at your guy.
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"Personally, I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster as he proceeds to piss off everyone."
ajfranke
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 17:38
Post #15 of 192 (766 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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yes but something seems to happen when they retire and go into politics.
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
MattinSF
Jun 30, 08 17:45
Post #16 of 192 (756 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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In Reply To
Can you on this day, June 30, 2008, my son's birthday, sit there with a straight face and not admit John McCain has a teensie weensie, ever-so-slight edge over BHO in the area of national defense???? Can you do it Matt?
Sorry, no can do. He is wrong on the single biggest national defense question facing this nation. I don't care how many years he spent in a POW camp, he has been wrong on Iraq, he is wrong on Iraq and if he wins this election he will be wrong on Iraq for the next 4 years.
Obama on the other hand was right, is right and has the right plan for the future.
A good Commander in Chief has to exhibit first and foremost good judgement, McCain has not done so, Obama has. Score that one for Obama.
(Out of curiosity, did you think Kerry or Gore, both Vietnam Vets, had the edge over Dubya in the area of national defense?)
Oh...and don't buy your kid anything expensive...you need to save up for my wine!!!!
Wish him happy birthday from me. :-)
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"Personally, I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster as he proceeds to piss off everyone."
ajfranke
(This post was
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by MattinSF on Jun 30, 08 17:46)
tyrod1
Jun 30, 08 17:46
Post #17 of 192 (754 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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i agree, in GA saxby 4-f chamblis vilified cleland....and got elected
mccain dumped his first wife....true courage after her accident
some accounts of his military record, excluding his pow period, seem to suggest he wasn't one of the best in the navy.
his time as pow was exemplary and before this campaign seemed inclined to a degree of bipartisanship....but by campaign's end he'll be so beholding to the corporate powers, neocons, etc....oh well
what has he really done in the senate? keating 5!
if we wanted a tuff guy, why not someone from UFC?
slowguy
Jun 30, 08 17:48
Post #18 of 192 (752 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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Like him or not, how about we actually look at what he said:
"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president,"
""In the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk," Clark said "It's a matter of gauging your opponents, and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions."
Now, which parts of that do any of you disagree with? People shat all over Sen Kerry because being a Senator is not the same as having an executive position like governor. This is essentially the same argument. Commanding at the level Sen McCain commanded at during his service is not anywhere near the same as high level executive leadership, and one does not qualify you for the other. Neither does courage as a POW. If you want to make an argument for Sen McCain's executive level leadership qualifications, that's fine, but you'll have to do it using something other than his experience as a POW or as a junior aircraft commander.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
Halvard
Jun 30, 08 17:52
Post #19 of 192 (749 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [ajfranke]
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I understand that you don’t like Ahmadinejad, nobody does. Just for your information, Ahmadinejad is not the head of Iran. He is just the president. The power in Iran is in the hands of the religious leaders, Ali Khamenei to be more specific. In 1989 he became the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran by choice of the Council of Experts.
With all his experience McCain said this before the Iraq war:
“I believe that success will be fairly easy”, September 24 2002
“I believe we can win a overwhelming victory in a very short period of time”, September 29 2002
“There is no doubt in my mind that once these people are gone we will be welcomed as liberators”, March 24 2003
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25130683
So with all his experience he knew that Americans would be welcomed as liberator. Well, it looks like he was wrong.
I am not questioning his patriotism or his service to this country. That would be swift boating, and its left for republicans.
Another lost Norwegian in the US
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by Halvard on Jun 30, 08 17:55)
dave_w
Jun 30, 08 17:54
Post #20 of 192 (741 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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In Reply To
yes but something seems to happen when they retire and go into politics.
I don't think Clark ended as the paragon of military virtue, rather a somewhat disgraced figure.
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On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units--an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the three-star general and commander of K-FOR, the international force organized and commanded by NATO to enforce an agreement in Kosovo, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting world war three for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport. (Jackson was rightly worried that any precipitous NATO action could risk a confrontation with a nuclear- armed Russia and upset the NATO-led peacekeeping plan just getting underway with the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo.)
"
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Indeed, it is
believed
in military circles that Clark's Pristina incident was the final straw that led the Pentagon to relieve him of his duties (actually retire him earlier). Clark had also angered the Pentagon brass--and Secretary of Defense William Cohen in particular--with his numerous media appearances and repeated public requests for more weapons and for more freedom to wage the Kosovo war the way he wanted (with ground troops). At one point, according to media reports, Defense Secretary Cohen, through Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Hugh Shelton, told Clark to "get your fucking face off of TV."
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http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?pid=945
"It's all about self-esteem"
last tri in 83
Jun 30, 08 17:54
Post #21 of 192 (741 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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I totally disagree but that's why I love you.
(Out of curiosity, did you think Kerry or Gore, both Vietnam Vets, had the edge over Dubya in the area of national defense?)
I would say they probably did for W's first term, not the second.
Off to dinner with son #1.
_____________________________________________
“I never exaggerate. I just remember big.”—Chi Chi Rodriguez
Tim
ajfranke
Jun 30, 08 17:59
Post #22 of 192 (732 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Halvard]
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Interesting comments. Please provide the context for them.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
Halvard
Jun 30, 08 18:08
Post #23 of 192 (722 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [ajfranke]
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Context:
Ali Khamenei is the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran. He is the person in power. (Some people even think Iran is an Arabic country, it is not, it is Persian and that is different.)
McCain has shown with his comments before the Iraq war that he is not the guy that should be in power. He does not understand the Middle East, just like Bush.
Another lost Norwegian in the US
ajfranke
Jun 30, 08 18:12
Post #24 of 192 (717 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Halvard]
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Please provide the context for the three McCain sound bites you provided.
Now, we both know you can't and you have no clue what he was talking about, but a little honesty will make you feel a lot better.
So humor me.
I am guessing Obama's being 100% wrong about the surge and McCain's being 100% right doesn't count for much.
I am also guessing you won't defend Clark's statements either.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
dave_w
Jun 30, 08 18:12
Post #25 of 192 (717 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
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Don't forget McCain's experience (now ranking menmber) on the Armed Services Committee.
Kennedy likes it:
"I think, first of all, as the chairman, the most important (attribute) is command of the subject. And obviously, John McCain has a complete and comprehensive command of the subject," said Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/...919-mccain-08run.htm
"It's all about self-esteem"
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