Calendar
Retailers
Stack & Reach
Custom Geometry Calculator (beta)
More To Come...
MAIN
INDEX
RULES &
LEGEND
LOG
IN
Search
this forum
this category
all forums
for
All words
Any words
Whole Phrase
(
options
)
Newsletter Signup
Slowtwitch Forums
:
Lavender Room
:
Wesley Clark
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
View All
Tri Forum
Classifieds
Lavender Room
Jobs
The Womens
Print Thread
Slowman
Jul 2, 08 11:20
Post #176 of 192 (263 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
"
My hypertension medicated brain is not as sharp as it usd to be but I do remember Bush coming out against the Swiftboat ads. I'm sure he really didn't mean it, though."
maybe my memory isn't as good as i would hope, but i don't remember bush condemning the swiftboat ads. what i remember him doing is uttering a *blanket* disapproval of *all* 527 ads. every time he was asked about the swiftboat ads, that's the answer he gave. that is my recollection, and that was the case for several weeks, while the ad was running, before he finally went *slightly* further in the article you cite. in your own cited article, you'll read that assessment: too little, too late.
meanwhile,
the first lady was interviewed by time magazine at the time the swiftboat ads were running, and she said she thought they were fair. and, if bush thought the ads were really worthy of condemnation, one wonders why he
selected one of the swiftboater's major financial backers to be the ambassador to belgium last year (as a recess appointment, because the senate would never have confirmed him).
bush might've considered a specific condemnation of the swiftboat ads were he to have read fellow lifelong republican jim rassmann's opinion piece condemning the unfair and untrue bashing kerry's war record. but of course rassman was biased. his was the life kerry saved when kerry pulled him out of the drink. you can read rassmann's account
here
.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
dave_w
Jul 2, 08 11:30
Post #177 of 192 (251 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Slowman]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
as trio jeepy pointed out, the swiftboat appeals were not he-said, she-said. it was he-said versus the-navy-said, the-eyewitnesses-said, the-crew-members-said. granting it she-said status is buying into the partisan bullshit. you saw precisely what you wanted to see. you were given a free pass to vote your bias by the swiftboaters, and you took it.
You disagreed with the group, so you dismissed everything that was associated with them, even new (at the time) and verifiably true information. Sad, you need to allow more things into your decision hopper, might make for a more balanced view.
"It's all about self-esteem"
Slowman
Jul 2, 08 11:54
Post #178 of 192 (236 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [dave_w]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
"
You disagreed with the group, so you dismissed everything that was associated with them"
i think it's possible that the group dug up some items while, of dubious import, might have been correct. likewise those who tried to dig up information about george bush's national guard experience might have unearthed some factually correct information.
you're right, in neither case did that impact my decision upon whom to vote for. i didn't care about what ill deeds george bush did during his non-combat service as long as it wasn't egregious. i didn't care about what ill deeds john kerry did during his combat career as long as it wasn't egregious.
the truest thing you can say about both groups is that they were each dead flat wrong as regards the serious contentions each group made. in kerry's case, a watergate era dirty trickster was coopted by the hard right smear machine, and funded, and set to work. that ought to cause you to ask questions of the party you support, or to at least be more discriminating when information comes out of the right-wing left-field. i support mccain's effort rid the party of that element. the more you champion the swiftboaters, however, the more i think anything i might write to you is falling on deaf ears.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
last tri in 83
Jul 2, 08 12:21
Post #179 of 192 (212 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Bush also said this in the article
“I think Sen. Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record."
Really, what do you expect him to do in a tight election, pump up his opponent?
Ken, we you equally outraged when liberal 527 groups were savaging Bush or when CBS news was making stuff up in Rathergate? Does Move on and Michael Moore just really get your goat?
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
Old and Haggard
Jul 2, 08 12:41
Post #180 of 192 (197 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
Bush also said this in the article
“I think Sen. Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record."
Really, what do you expect him to do in a tight election, pump up his opponent?
I expected nothing of Bush. I expected that you'd actually present something to back up your statement "but I do remember Bush coming out against the Swiftboat ads" when you linked to the article in question.
He did nothing of the kind.
-----------------------------------
Ken Lehner
"reread klenher [sic] and pretty much skip the rest." - desert dude 5/25/2008
last tri in 83
Jul 2, 08 12:46
Post #181 of 192 (192 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [klehner]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
are we now going to analyze the meaning of "coming out against?"
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
squid
Jul 2, 08 13:08
Post #182 of 192 (186 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
you mock him and infer he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Welcome to the Lavender Room.
Casey
Jul 2, 08 14:29
Post #183 of 192 (162 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Why do you think the charges against Kerry stuck and continue to stick?
I had no idea the charges continue to stick, I thought everyone knew it was just politically motivated attacks during an election.
Maybe they stick in certain circles but most people who did their own investigation, as I did, now know the attacks were political and with no substance.
If it were not pure politics, I would have thought I would have heard something (anything) about the "charges" after the election but I didn't.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Casey
Jul 2, 08 14:31
Post #184 of 192 (159 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
The reason is sticks to Kerry is that people a) believe it could be possible due to his after war activities or b) feel he deserved it due to his after was activities.
I think (b) is accurate, he was attacked more for his post war activities.
Either way, it was shameful what they did to him, regardless of party.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
dave_w
Jul 2, 08 14:46
Post #185 of 192 (153 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Casey]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To
I think (b) is accurate, he was attacked more for his post war activities.
Either way, it was shameful what they did to him, regardless of party.
Should not have been a surprise to him that his congressional testimony and other actions, once back home, became an issue. Makes one wonder who his campaign advisors were that made such a big effort (remember "John Kerry Reporting for Duty!") to put his military life front and center.
"It's all about self-esteem"
spot
Jul 2, 08 15:08
Post #186 of 192 (141 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Not commenting on Clark's comments, but for an interesting take on Gen Clark's reputation, go here:
http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=5660
Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
Al P Duez
Jul 2, 08 15:19
Post #187 of 192 (137 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Casey]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
There is enough shame to go around:
THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, APRIL 22, 1971
John Kerry: "
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
slowbern
Jul 2, 08 15:38
Post #188 of 192 (124 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
pointing out reverse snobbery
That is a new one. You should have gone into creative writing.
Bernie
_______________
There, Sphere, are you happy?
slowbern
Jul 2, 08 16:11
Post #189 of 192 (119 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [sphere]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
but aside from the media pushing the idea and the juxtapositional personas (Bush=hayseed, McCain=G.I.Joe), what is it exactly that lends support to your opinion that he would look down his nose at people like us, considering his upbringing and history of serving the poor?
First off, I don't pay too much attention to the news and the talking heads on TV. In fact, I never watch political stuff on TV unless it is a speech. So aside from what is in my local paper, The Livingston County Press and Argus (which is printed 6 days a week) I don't really know how the candidates are portrayed. I didn't ever buy that President Bush was a hayseed or McCain was a G.I. Joe. I haven't seen that Senator Obama has been portrayed like I have described him. My opinion is based on my observations and what I have read in my local paper about him.
I guess one clear example is what happened when he came here to Detroit. While surrounded by a group of reports, one of them, a woman named Peggy Agar, asked him a question and he put her off by saying, "Hold on one second, sweetie." He never did answer her question. While Senator Obama, in my opinion, did not look down at her professionally with that comment, he did completely marginalize her from a gender perspective. I do not think it is a stretch to think he would do the same thing to people of "lesser" academic stature if he so easily can slip into that persona with gender. He called her up and apologized to her (by leaving a phone message on her answering machine) and the best he could come up with was that he "was officially chagrinned" for letting that remark slip.
My experience is that this quality is often associated with high-academic sorts. Sometimes it doesn't even matter that they came from lowly beginnings...in fact, I would say that can exacerbate it.
President Clinton (although I didn't like him very much because I thought he was a very poor role model but that is another thread altogether) was not this way. He had similar humble beginnings and achieved high academic stature, but he did not seem to be condescending to others in the way that Senator Obama is. I also don't think that Senator McCain is that way.
I hope that explains my opinion better.
Bernie
_______________
There, Sphere, are you happy?
last tri in 83
Jul 2, 08 16:25
Post #190 of 192 (114 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [slowbern]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Oh Bernie, it's not surprising you get bitter, you cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like you or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain your frustrations.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
slowbern
Jul 2, 08 16:32
Post #191 of 192 (108 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Funny! I don't own any guns. I should so that I can take care of some of these critters out here. I am also not anti-immigrant...not by a long shot. Oddly, I am not anti-trade either, considering my pro-labor mentality. I am also 100% pro-life (anti-abortion and anti-death penalty). I am against a national language.
Maybe I'm bitter because I'm so confused!
Bernie
_______________
There, Sphere, are you happy?
TwinDad
Jul 2, 08 18:58
Post #192 of 192 (85 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I think you forgot the pink font...
--------------------
Yes, I too now have a
Blog
. Don't laugh.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
View All
Print Thread
MAIN
RULES &
LOG
