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Wesley Clark
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Al P Duez
Jul 1, 08 11:26
Post #76 of 192 (306 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [BarryP]
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Clark implied that McCain was lacking qualifications without thinking that maybe his guy may be light in that department (read the whole interview). Kind of nutty, if not strategically stupid, position to take if you are supporting Obama.
(This post was
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JSA
Jul 1, 08 11:32
Post #77 of 192 (297 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Call me nutty but I'd rather have a President with 5 years in Harvard than 5 years in a POW camp.
I cannot believe I am saying this ... ;-) ... but, I understand and (to a certain extent) agree with the point to are making here, although we have plenty of Harvard grads around here and I wouldn't want a single one of them to be POTUS. So, replace "Harvard" with a good, wholesome, midwestern university, put your comment in a vaccuum, and I see your point.
Now, that said, you cannot argue that McCain's
total
military experience, combined with his political service, and time on the Armed Services Committee, does not make him quite qualified in the matter of national defense. I am not going to try to argue here that this, in and of itself, makes him fully qualified to be POTUS or even makes him the best candidate for the position. But, let's not try to play down this one strength of John McCain.
Getting back to Wesley Clark, I served under Clark, respected the hell out of him, until he lost his mind at Pristina International Airport. He said some really, really stupid things and got on Cohen's shit-list really, really quickly and, next thing you know, out he goes. He is very bitter (and maybe rightfully so). I still respect the man and respect his incredible service record, but, I'll be damned if I will sit back and watch ANYBODY try to trash someone's military service.
I could not stand John Kerry, but, I was greatly upset and greatly offended by the attack on his military service. It is what it is. We call it "selfless service" for a reason. IMHO, you (the servicemember) should not make more of it than it is, but, screw anyone who wants to demean it.
I understand what Clark was trying to do and trying to say. But, he was as clumsy here as he was during his press conference at Prestina. Whether it was his intent or not, it came off as bashing McCain's service and that simply will not play.
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
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dave_w
Jul 1, 08 11:36
Post #78 of 192 (292 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Dave, until Joe Lieberman wispered it in his ear John McCain didn't know the difference between a Sunni and a Shia...tell me again how his pilot experience from 30 years ago is useful in this war on terror? tell me again how he is sooo much better qualified to lead us in this fight than Senator Obama?
You guys love to thump your chests and hail military experience as the only way a President can have the fire in his belly to make the tough decisions. Someone needs to tell that to FDR...another Columbia/Harvard "elitist" intellectual like Obama as coincidence would have it.
As a good publican, I'll suggest that he probably just misspoke. :) As far as qualified, I gave my take early on, that the POW time spoke more to character than anything else. I'd pick the average performing governor over either of these guys of these guys if experience is the only metric. Unfortunately, we're looking at two senators here. Of course Obama does have the well of what, two years of senate experience, to draw on. ;)
"It's all about self-esteem"
Slowman
Jul 1, 08 11:37
Post #79 of 192 (291 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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"
Why shouldn't McC use his Viet Nam experience in his commercials/resume? It's the truth, it part of who he is"
i don't mind him using that at all. at the same time, i think it's fair to point out that these experiences, while valuable in their context, do not equate to executive battlefield experience.
tommy john was a great pitcher. he had a very serious injury. he had a landmark surgery, a difficult recovery, and he became famous for this experience. is all this noteworthy? yes. was it laudable? yes. would it be evidence of his ability to be a successful general manager for a big league club? well, no.
what i've read in this thread is that wesley clark denigrated or belittled mccain's wartime experience with his comments. any reading of what clark said shows that not to be the case. to keep repeating that is just ignorant. clark spoke respectfully about what mccain can be proud of, while thoughtfully pointing out what being a POW does
not
equip you for.
if it's executive battlefield experience you want in your next president, plenty of those out there you 'pubs could've chosen.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Slowman
Jul 1, 08 11:40
Post #80 of 192 (288 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [ajfranke]
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"
If McCain's military experiences still leave him untested and untried in Clark's eyes, can you explain why Clark thought Kerry's experiences were such an outstanding credential for him to be president?"
clark defended kerry when your heroes, the swiftboaters, did what clark would never do: denigrate the opposing party's wartime experience. while clark speaks respectfully of mccain's record, your heroes did not.
if you had an ounce of fairmindedness you'd admit that both kerry and mccain served with dinstinction in the vietnam war. but you don't, so you won't.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 11:52
Post #81 of 192 (277 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Slowman]
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You are narrowing the qualification now to "battlefield experience?"
His experience as a CO, and senate liasion etc. is now dismissed?
This is getting silly.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
BarryP
Jul 1, 08 11:59
Post #82 of 192 (268 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [ajfranke]
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If McCain's military experiences still leave him untested and untried in Clark's eyes, can you explain why Clark thought Kerry's experiences were such an outstanding credential for him to be president?
Apparently you missed post #58 when I wrote this:
"Last I checked, they are all Democrats. Is there something that's confusing you?" ; ^ )
______________________________________________
-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach
RunTraining articles here:
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MattinSF
Jul 1, 08 12:00
Post #83 of 192 (267 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [JSA]
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McCain does have a good resume on defense, but it doesn't add up to a hill of beans if he is wrong on Iraq, and he is wrong on Iraq.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
BarryP
Jul 1, 08 12:01
Post #84 of 192 (266 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Al P Duez]
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Clark implied that McCain was lacking qualifications without thinking that maybe his guy may be light in that department (read the whole interview). Kind of nutty, if not strategically stupid, position to take if you are supporting Obama.
This is getting to be tiresome. I'm not going to explain to you what he said in the speech and how he covered that point.
______________________________________________
-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach
RunTraining articles here:
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or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.
sphere
Jul 1, 08 12:03
Post #85 of 192 (263 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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This is getting silly.
A fitting end to a silly thread.
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." - George F. Will
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 12:03
Post #86 of 192 (262 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [Slowman]
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Weren't the swiftboaters from Kerry's unit and those under his command? I'm not sure any of Art's heroes had much to do with it.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
BarryP
Jul 1, 08 12:05
Post #87 of 192 (258 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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5 yrs Harvard, judgement, decision making ability = I don't have a freakin clue about defense issues and it makes me look bad
How exactly does being a POW give someone a clue about defense issues?
______________________________________________
-Barry Pollock (aka Baron Von Speedypants)
-Running Coach
RunTraining articles here:
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or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 12:10
Post #88 of 192 (254 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [BarryP]
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the very fact that BHO's minions are on the attack about McC's military experience shows that they are weak in this area, they know it, and are trying to minimize McC's strength by saying it really doesn't matter - 5 yrs at Harvard, decision making ability and judgement are what REALLY matters.
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Conservative in exile.
Al P Duez
Jul 1, 08 12:12
Post #89 of 192 (248 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [BarryP]
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I know what he said so please explain to me all knowing one how this is a smart strategy in support of Obama. It is not and will not help Obama.
MattinSF
Jul 1, 08 12:13
Post #90 of 192 (245 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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decision making ability and judgement are what REALLY matters.
Yup...and McCain is wrong on Iraq and Obama is right....thats what REALLY matters.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
Slowman
Jul 1, 08 12:16
Post #91 of 192 (239 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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"
This is getting silly."
it was silly when you said clark's comments were nutty. that was silly. i think we all agree on that. and that was my sole point when responding to your silly statement. that ought to have been when the thread died its rightful death.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 12:18
Post #92 of 192 (236 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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I have not doubt that before this election is over, the handlers and press will have Obama looking like the 2nd coming of DOuglas McArthur complete with the corn cobb pipe instead of a cigarette and McC looking like Admiral Binghamton on McHales Navy.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
slowbern
Jul 1, 08 12:28
Post #93 of 192 (221 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Call me nutty but I'd rather have a President with 5 years in Harvard than 5 years in a POW camp.
I suppose if that was the sum total of qualifications, you might be right. Fortunately, it is not...for either candidate.
I still am offended by the attitude of elitism that seems to surround Obama and his supporters. I get the sense that they are those academic elites, who know what is good for everybody, and marginalize the producers and the workers of this country.
Bernie
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There, Sphere, are you happy?
MattinSF
Jul 1, 08 12:41
Post #94 of 192 (209 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [slowbern]
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Call me nutty but I'd rather have a President with 5 years in Harvard than 5 years in a POW camp.
I suppose if that was the sum total of qualifications, you might be right. Fortunately, it is not...for either candidate.
I still am offended by the attitude of elitism that seems to surround Obama and his supporters. I get the sense that they are those academic elites, who know what is good for everybody, and marginalize the producers and the workers of this country.
Bernie
I am offended by the tag of elitist that has been hung on Obama and his supporters. The man is from the Southside of Chicago, he just finished paying off his student loans, he was a community organizer helping the poor and the workers of this country when he could easily have made millions on Wall Street.
I am offended that being well educated and well spoken has become a source of derision in this country.
Dumbya really has dumbed us down.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 12:46
Post #95 of 192 (202 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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I don't know Matt, he kind of comes off that way. Something he is going to have to work on.
Maybe he needs to go huntin' with Kerry.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
MattinSF
Jul 1, 08 12:54
Post #96 of 192 (199 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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What does he have to work on? sounding like a hick?
Like Dubya our blue blooded Yalie who does a very good Texas drawl even though he's a Connecticut yankee through and through. Some find that endearing, I find it mildly offensive.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
slowbern
Jul 1, 08 12:56
Post #97 of 192 (196 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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he was a community organizer helping the poor
and the workers of this country
My brother is a community organizer in Chicago, and has been for several years. I don't have a clue what he does (and he has a hard time explaining it). But he makes pretty good money doing it...whatever it is. As one of the workers of this country, I'm not seeing how Senator Obama has helped me or anyone I know. Senator Clinton...maybe.
I am offended that being well educated and well spoken has become a source of derision in this country.
It is not the fact that he is well-educated or well-spoken that gets him tagged with the term elitist. It is his attitude and what he says. When I hear him speak or read his speeches, I feel that he is looking down at me. I think that he thinks he is better than me because of his education. He marginalizes people and their professions (you might note my signature line). He makes grandiose speeches and statements with no experience to back them up.
I could be wrong...I hope I am wrong. But I haven't seen anything that says I am.
And I say this coming from the working class. I am supposed to be one of those guys who is going to vote lockstep for Obama. Supposedly, my career is on the line during this election. But I am going to have to see an entirely different side of Obama than what I have seen thus far before I vote for him.
Bernie
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There, Sphere, are you happy?
sphere
Jul 1, 08 12:57
Post #98 of 192 (195 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [last tri in 83]
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Elitist? Maybe you guys missed this photo-op. I've never seen a man look more comfortable on a tractor in my life.
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." - George F. Will
last tri in 83
Jul 1, 08 13:04
Post #99 of 192 (188 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [MattinSF]
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Matt, some of the worst elitists are those that started with nothing.
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
MattinSF
Jul 1, 08 13:04
Post #100 of 192 (188 views)
Re: Wesley Clark [sphere]
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Ohhhh I wish I'd seen that photo before I voted for him. I stand corrected, look at the man, he is quite obviously elitist! he might as well wear a lapel pin that says so.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
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