Bike Shops
Coaches
Fitters
Race Calendar
*NEW* Running Stores
Stack & Reach
Training Log
Triathlon Clubs
MAIN
INDEX
RULES &
LEGEND
LOG
IN
Search
this forum
this category
all forums
for
All words
Any words
Whole Phrase
(
options
)
Newsletter Signup
Slowtwitch Forums
:
Lavender Room
:
War and "exit strategies"
Tri Forum
Classifieds
Lavender Room
Jobs
The Womens
Print Thread
spot
Nov 12, 09 5:12
Post #1 of 15 (241 views)
War and "exit strategies"
Can't Post
OK, I have pretty much had it with this notion of having an "exit strategy" before committing troops. Essentially, what you are saying when you demand an exit strategy (I'm assuming here that the exit strategy is not "we stay until the job is done") is that the mission will end regardless of the outcome of sending in the troops, which begs the question: Why send in the troops at all? If the mission is not important enough to stay until you have achieved the goals you sent the troops in to accomplish, then don't send them at all. Having a defined "exit strategy" that is not linked to a clear and defined set of achievable objectives is ludicrous. Either Afghanistan is important enough to stay until the job is done, or its not. If it isn't, then let's go now. If it is, then let's get in it to win it. Let's not sign up to sending more men and women to the place without the stomach to do what it takes to prevail. All that will do will get more Americans dead for no reason.
Spot
"Are you Finman enough?"
My blogs: www.georgeraihalaphotography.blogspot.com
wwww.eatdrinkandbemerrywithspot.blogspot.com
YaHey
Nov 12, 09 5:30
Post #2 of 15 (231 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [spot]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
It's not important enough, there is no attainable objecitve, you can't get the job done, we can't win there, we don't have the stomach for it, so let's get out of there now.
Besides, there is no exit strategy.
-------------------------------------
slowguy
Nov 12, 09 6:22
Post #3 of 15 (214 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [spot]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
"Essentially, what you are saying when you demand an exit strategy (I'm assuming here that the exit strategy is not "we stay until the job is done") is that the mission will end regardless of the outcome of sending in the troops"
I think your assumption may be accurate for some people, but ingeneral, an Exit Strategy is exactly what you're looking for; A plan to withdraw or extricate us from Afghanistan which would, necessarily be tied to the accomplishment of a series of objectives. It may be that we have an exit strategy that takes into account several branches and sequels such that there is one path in the case of a certain set of indicators, and a different path based on a different set of indicators, but as far as the military is concerned, the exit strategy planning doesn't generally assume failure. If it did, we wouldn't spend as much time as we do planning for how to achieve success.
Slowguy
(insert pithy phrase here...)
jkca1
Nov 12, 09 7:12
Post #4 of 15 (204 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [spot]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
We have no chance of winning the war in Afghanistan unless winning means blowing the heck out of the country endlessly forever. The last election showed the govt. is corrupt and the people believe it is a puppet of Uncle Sam. All is lost there. Our troops have done a great job in a difficult situation but it's time to bring them home.
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
jaws20
Nov 12, 09 10:11
Post #5 of 15 (179 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [jkca1]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
During the pres election, Obama was against troop withdrawal timetables (at least re Iraq). Now he wants them?
For months, he's been waiting for his advisors' recommendations. Now he rejects them and says he needs more time to decide what to do?
His flip-flopping and indecision is distressing. People are dying while he's waffling about what to do.
________________________________________________
To the extent anything above is construed negatively or offensively, it was so intended.
FJB
Nov 12, 09 10:15
Post #6 of 15 (173 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [jaws20]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
For months, he's been waiting for his advisors' recommendations. Now he rejects them and says he needs more time to decide what to do?
What if the recommendations are not good enough? Would you rather he goes ahead with something he disagrees with or pushes on with something he will have to answer for down the road? I thought people would applaud the fact that you have a CIC who actually looks at options.
His flip-flopping and indecision is distressing. People are dying while he's waffling about what to do.
People have been dying for 8 years and will continue to because there are troops there and it is a war. That will not change. Do you think that there will be no more deaths if Obama decides to increase troops by 40,000?
jkca1
Nov 12, 09 11:01
Post #7 of 15 (159 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [jaws20]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
During the pres election, Obama was against troop withdrawal timetables (at least re Iraq). Now he wants them?
For months, he's been waiting for his advisors' recommendations. Now he rejects them and says he needs more time to decide what to do?
His flip-flopping and indecision is distressing. People are dying while he's waffling about what to do.
If Obama pulls the troops home the GOP calls him soft on terrorists. I don't think that rings true but there are others out there that sure do. So being a politician what does he do? The "right" thing, which in my .02 is bring the troops home, or the wrong thing, prolong the war? My $$$ is on option 2.
But if you look into a study of terrorism you will find the biggest threat we have today comes from educated terrorists, not a profile that fits the Taliban. I believe that most of the 9/11 terrorists were college educated:
"According to
Jerrold Post
, a professor of psychology at
George Washington University
and former
CIA
officer, the hijackers were well-educated, mature adults, whose belief systems were fully formed."
So I'm more concerned about educated radical Muslims in England/France/USA than the Taliban. We need to keep a very close eye on them AND trail their funding. My guess says that much of the funding for terrorism comes from oil rich countries, some of which are our "allies". End the funding and you will reduce terrorism significantly.
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
jaws20
Nov 12, 09 11:02
Post #8 of 15 (159 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [FJB]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
he's letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. not good policy for a commander in chief in a time of war.
******
if the advisors recommendatios aren't good enough, he should get new advisors.
________________________________________________
To the extent anything above is construed negatively or offensively, it was so intended.
rick_pcfl
Nov 12, 09 11:10
Post #9 of 15 (151 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [FJB]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
For months, he's been waiting for his advisors' recommendations. Now he rejects them and says he needs more time to decide what to do?
What if the recommendations are not good enough? Would you rather he goes ahead with something he disagrees with or pushes on with something he will have to answer for down the road?
I thought people would applaud the fact that you have a CIC who actually looks at options.
His flip-flopping and indecision is distressing. People are dying while he's waffling about what to do.
People have been dying for 8 years and will continue to because there are troops there and it is a war. That will not change. Do you think that there will be no more deaths if Obama decides to increase troops by 40,000?
It didn't stop him with the stimulus plan or health care destruction. Those things he had to have right away.
this morning when I heard that he had rejected all the plans because they weren't good enough - I thought to myself - "he's just buying time, trying to avoid the hard decision"
FJB
Nov 12, 09 13:56
Post #10 of 15 (125 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [rick_pcfl]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
this morning when I heard that he had rejected all the plans because they weren't good enough - I thought to myself - "he's just buying time, trying to avoid the hard decision"
That's surprising considering you are such an Obama supporter.
rick_pcfl
Nov 12, 09 14:04
Post #11 of 15 (122 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [FJB]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
this morning when I heard that he had rejected all the plans because they weren't good enough - I thought to myself - "he's just buying time, trying to avoid the hard decision"
That's surprising considering you are such an Obama supporter.
shouldn't your comment be the same color as the thong I'm wearing :)
FJB
Nov 12, 09 14:42
Post #12 of 15 (106 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [rick_pcfl]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
shouldn't your comment be the same color as the thong I'm wearing :)
I am boycotting the use of pink. Good sarcasm shouldn't need help :)
You may want to consider a similar boycott, when you pick out your thongs.....
spot
Nov 12, 09 14:53
Post #13 of 15 (100 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [slowguy]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
"Essentially, what you are saying when you demand an exit strategy (I'm assuming here that the exit strategy is not "we stay until the job is done") is that the mission will end regardless of the outcome of sending in the troops"
I think your assumption may be accurate for some people, but ingeneral, an Exit Strategy is exactly what you're looking for; A plan to withdraw or extricate us from Afghanistan which would, necessarily be tied to the accomplishment of a series of objectives. It may be that we have an exit strategy that takes into account several branches and sequels such that there is one path in the case of a certain set of indicators, and a different path based on a different set of indicators, but as far as the military is concerned, the exit strategy planning doesn't generally assume failure. If it did, we wouldn't spend as much time as we do planning for how to achieve success.
OK, I had a really good post written in reponse to this, and it just disappeared. I am getting really tired of that happening when you use the "quote" feature. Anyway, you'll just have to trust me that I had written an extremely erudite response....
Seriously, I don't disagree with you; what I'm getting at is what I think politicians mean when they say "exit strategy," and I don't think its as simple as "we leave when our goals are met." If it was, they would just say so. Instead, it seems to me that "exit strategy" is the politician's code for a fixed timeline for withdrawal, regardless of whether or not we've achieved what we set out to achieve. And I submit that there is no reason to put troops in to harm's way if that's your plan.
Spot
"Are you Finman enough?"
My blogs: www.georgeraihalaphotography.blogspot.com
wwww.eatdrinkandbemerrywithspot.blogspot.com
(This post was
edited
by spot on Nov 12, 09 17:37)
spot
Nov 12, 09 14:55
Post #14 of 15 (98 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [jkca1]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
We have no chance of winning the war in Afghanistan unless winning means blowing the heck out of the country endlessly forever. The last election showed the govt. is corrupt and the people believe it is a puppet of Uncle Sam. All is lost there. Our troops have done a great job in a difficult situation but it's time to bring them home.
I disagree with this position. I certainly disagree with the notion that winning requires maximum firepower...that is exactly the opposite of a good COIN strategy. I would also submit that this is exactly what everyone was saying about Al Anbar province specifically and Iraq in general in 2006/2007, and I would submit that we are well on our way to achieving some semblance of success there.
Spot
"Are you Finman enough?"
My blogs: www.georgeraihalaphotography.blogspot.com
wwww.eatdrinkandbemerrywithspot.blogspot.com
Rodred
Nov 12, 09 16:18
Post #15 of 15 (78 views)
Re: War and "exit strategies" [FJB]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
For months, he's been waiting for his advisors' recommendations. Now he rejects them and says he needs more time to decide what to do?
What if the recommendations are not good enough? Would you rather he goes ahead with something he disagrees with or pushes on with something he will have to answer for down the road? I thought people would applaud the fact that you have a CIC who actually looks at options.
His flip-flopping and indecision is distressing. People are dying while he's waffling about what to do.
People have been dying for 8 years and will continue to because there are troops there and it is a war. That will not change. Do you think that there will be no more deaths if Obama decides to increase troops by 40,000?
I am curious how much time he needs an which advisors he still needs tot alk to. The militaries best and brightest are there to answer his questions and he has said there wont be anything until at least after he gets back from the Far East. Who exactly is planning his strategy? Is he reading Sun Tzu on the way over?
Print Thread