Slowtwitch Forums: Lavender Room: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever"

Calendar Coaches Fitters Retailers Triathlon Clubs Stack & Reach Custom Geometry Calculator Training Log
		MAIN INDEX	RULES & LEGEND	LOG IN

Search for (options)

Newsletter Signup

Slowtwitch Forums: Lavender Room:
WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever"

1 2 3

View All

big kahuna

Nov 2, 09 11:59

Post #1 of 69 (662 views)

WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever"	Can't Post

The WSJ editorial page is more conservative than the paper itself, of course, but it really scorches the latest House health bill to be put forth. Calling it "the worst bill ever," it's hard to see it as anything but once you start to dig into it and look at what it does, doesn't do and promises or doesn't promise:

http://online.wsj.com/...od=djemEditorialPage

Speaker Nancy Pelosi has reportedly told fellow Democrats that she's prepared to lose seats in 2010 if that's what it takes to pass ObamaCare, and little wonder. The health bill she unwrapped last Thursday, which President Obama hailed as a "critical milestone," may well be the worst piece of post-New Deal legislation ever introduced.

In a rational political world, this 1,990-page runaway train would have been derailed months ago. With spending and debt already at record peacetime levels, the bill creates a new and probably unrepealable middle-class entitlement that is designed to expand over time. Taxes will need to rise precipitously, even as ObamaCare so dramatically expands government control of health care that eventually all medicine will be rationed via politics.

I guess at some point people in the U.S. are going to need to ask themselves what they're willing to pay (and they WILL pay it, of that there should be no doubt) in order to have some level of healthcare provided to larger numbers of people.

T.

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 12:09

Post #2 of 69 (649 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I immediately take less seriously any criticism the invokes the length of the bill. As I said in another thread, with regards to the writing of the bills, it is the Office of Legislative Council that actually writes the bills.

You know that Bush's 2007 budget bill was almost 1,500 pages right? Were you on here complaining about the length of bills back then? Complain about the context, fine, the length, just a stupid talking point.

Bills are long, get over it, there's a lot that goes into them, here's a good explanation.

http://www.slate.com/id/2225820/

Millions of 12 year olds read Harry Potter books that are just as long.

chainpin

Nov 2, 09 12:14

Post #3 of 69 (641 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Nice strawman, did you actually read the oped?

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

big kahuna

Nov 2, 09 12:19

Post #4 of 69 (635 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Of course he didn't. It criticizes his saint (Barack) and his saint's favorite totem ("health care for the masses"). I see the phenomenon a lot. Usually, it consists of a man or woman of the Left standing in the middle of the street, fingers in ears, shouting "LALALALA!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" ;-)

I even put a link to the whole bill up here in the LR for those curious about it. I wonder if he's taken the time to go over it, or if he's just willing to take whatever the Democrat grandees say at face value?

T.

big kahuna

Nov 2, 09 12:23

Post #5 of 69 (627 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

By the way; here are all the boards, commissions, bureaucracies and programs established in the House bill. I shouldn't complian, though. If I wanted to (having a degree and experience in healthcare administration), I'm fairly confident I could snag a nice-paying government job in one or another of them:

1. Retiree Reserve Trust Fund (Section 111(d), p. 61)
2. Grant program for wellness programs to small employers (Section 112, p. 62)
3. Grant program for State health access programs (Section 114, p. 72)
4. Program of administrative simplification (Section 115, p. 76)
5. Health Benefits Advisory Committee (Section 223, p. 111)
6. Health Choices Administration (Section 241, p. 131)
7. Qualified Health Benefits Plan Ombudsman (Section 244, p. 138)
8. Health Insurance Exchange (Section 201, p. 155)
9. Program for technical assistance to employees of small businesses buying Exchange coverage (Section 305(h), p. 191)
10. Mechanism for insurance risk pooling to be established by Health Choices Commissioner (Section 306(b), p. 194)
11. Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund (Section 307, p. 195)
12. State-based Health Insurance Exchanges (Section 308, p. 197)
13. Grant program for health insurance cooperatives (Section 310, p. 206)
14. "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 321, p. 211)
15. Ombudsman for "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 321(d), p. 213)
16. Account for receipts and disbursements for "Public Health Insurance Option" (Section 322(b), p. 215)
17. Telehealth Advisory Committee (Section 1191 (b), p. 589)
18. Demonstration program providing reimbursement for "culturally and linguistically appropriate services" (Section 1222, p. 617)
19. Demonstration program for shared decision making using patient decision aids (Section 1236, p. 648)
20. Accountable Care Organization pilot program under Medicare (Section 1301, p. 653)
21. Independent patient-centered medical home pilot program under Medicare (Section 1302, p. 672)
22. Community-based medical home pilot program under Medicare (Section 1302(d), p. 681)
23. Independence at home demonstration program (Section 1312, p. 718)
24. Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research (Section 1401(a), p. 734)
25. Comparative Effectiveness Research Commission (Section 1401(a), p. 738)
26. Patient ombudsman for comparative effectiveness research (Section 1401(a), p. 753)
27. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 1412(b)(1), p. 784)
28. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for nursing facilities (Section 1412 (b)(2), p. 786)
29. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 1413(a)(3), p. 796)
30. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 1413(b)(3), p. 804)
31. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 1422, p. 859)
32. Demonstration program for approved teaching health centers with respect to Medicare GME (Section 1502(d), p. 933)
33. Pilot program to develop anti-fraud compliance systems for Medicare providers (Section 1635, p. 978)
34. Special Inspector General for the Health Insurance Exchange (Section 1647, p. 1000)
35. Medical home pilot program under Medicaid (Section 1722, p. 1058)
36. Accountable Care Organization pilot program under Medicaid (Section 1730A, p. 1073)
37. Nursing facility supplemental payment program (Section 1745, p. 1106)
38. Demonstration program for Medicaid coverage to stabilize emergency medical conditions in institutions for mental diseases (Section 1787, p. 1149)
39. Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund (Section 1802, p. 1162)
40. "Identifiable office or program" within CMS to "provide for improved coordination between Medicare and Medicaid in the case of dual eligibles" (Section 1905, p. 1191)
41. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 1907, p. 1198)
42. Public Health Investment Fund (Section 2002, p. 1214)
43. Scholarships for service in health professional needs areas (Section 2211, p. 1224)
44. Program for training medical residents in community-based settings (Section 2214, p. 1236)
45. Grant program for training in dentistry programs (Section 2215, p. 1240)
46. Public Health Workforce Corps (Section 2231, p. 1253)
47. Public health workforce scholarship program (Section 2231, p. 1254)
48. Public health workforce loan forgiveness program (Section 2231, p. 1258)
49. Grant program for innovations in interdisciplinary care (Section 2252, p. 1272)
50. Advisory Committee on Health Workforce Evaluation and Assessment (Section 2261, p. 1275)
51. Prevention and Wellness Trust (Section 2301, p. 1286)
52. Clinical Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1295)
53. Community Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1301)
54. Grant program for community prevention and wellness research (Section 2301, p. 1305)
55. Grant program for research and demonstration projects related to wellness incentives (Section 2301, p. 1305)
56. Grant program for community prevention and wellness services (Section 2301, p. 1308)
57. Grant program for public health infrastructure (Section 2301, p. 1313)
58. Center for Quality Improvement (Section 2401, p. 1322)
59. Assistant Secretary for Health Information (Section 2402, p. 1330)
60. Grant program to support the operation of school-based health clinics (Section 2511, p. 1352)
61. Grant program for nurse-managed health centers (Section 2512, p. 1361)
62. Grants for labor-management programs for nursing training (Section 2521, p. 1372)
63. Grant program for interdisciplinary mental and behavioral health training (Section 2522, p. 1382)
64. "No Child Left Unimmunized Against Influenza" demonstration grant program (Section 2524, p. 1391)
65. Healthy Teen Initiative grant program regarding teen pregnancy (Section 2526, p. 1398)
66. Grant program for interdisciplinary training, education, and services for individuals with autism (Section 2527(a), p. 1402)
67. University centers for excellence in developmental disabilities education (Section 2527(b), p. 1410)
68. Grant program to implement medication therapy management services (Section 2528, p. 1412)
69. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors in underserved communities (Section 2530, p. 1422)
70. Grant program for State alternative medical liability laws (Section 2531, p. 1431)
71. Grant program to develop infant mortality programs (Section 2532, p. 1433)
72. Grant program to prepare secondary school students for careers in health professions (Section 2533, p. 1437)
73. Grant program for community-based collaborative care (Section 2534, p. 1440)
74. Grant program for community-based overweight and obesity prevention (Section 2535, p. 1457)
75. Grant program for reducing the student-to-school nurse ratio in primary and secondary schools (Section 2536, p. 1462)
76. Demonstration project of grants to medical-legal partnerships (Section 2537, p. 1464)
77. Center for Emergency Care under the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (Section 2552, p. 1478)
78. Council for Emergency Care (Section 2552, p 1479)
79. Grant program to support demonstration programs that design and implement regionalized emergency care systems (Section 2553, p. 1480)
80. Grant program to assist veterans who wish to become emergency medical technicians upon discharge (Section 2554, p. 1487)
81. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 2562, p. 1494)
82. National Medical Device Registry (Section 2571, p. 1501)
83. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 2581, p. 1597)
84. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 2581, p. 1598)
85. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 2581, p. 1602)
86. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1610)
87. National Women's Health Information Center (Section 2588, p. 1611)
88. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1614)
89. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women's Health and Gender-Based Research (Section 2588, p. 1617)
90. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1618)
91. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1621)
92. Personal Care Attendant Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 2589(a)(2), p. 1624)
93. Grant program for national health workforce online training (Section 2591, p. 1629)
94. Grant program to disseminate best practices on implementing health workforce investment programs (Section 2591, p. 1632)
95. Demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (Section 3101, p. 1717)
96. Demonstration program for substance abuse counselor educational curricula (Section 3101, p. 1719)49. Grant program for innovations in interdisciplinary care (Section 2252, p. 1272)
50. Advisory Committee on Health Workforce Evaluation and Assessment (Section 2261, p. 1275)
51. Prevention and Wellness Trust (Section 2301, p. 1286)
52. Clinical Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1295)
53. Community Prevention Stakeholders Board (Section 2301, p. 1301)
54. Grant program for community prevention and wellness research (Section 2301, p. 1305)
55. Grant program for research and demonstration projects related to wellness incentives (Section 2301, p. 1305)
56. Grant program for community prevention and wellness services (Section 2301, p. 1308)
57. Grant program for public health infrastructure (Section 2301, p. 1313)
58. Center for Quality Improvement (Section 2401, p. 1322)
59. Assistant Secretary for Health Information (Section 2402, p. 1330)
60. Grant program to support the operation of school-based health clinics (Section 2511, p. 1352)
61. Grant program for nurse-managed health centers (Section 2512, p. 1361)
62. Grants for labor-management programs for nursing training (Section 2521, p. 1372)
63. Grant program for interdisciplinary mental and behavioral health training (Section 2522, p. 1382)
64. "No Child Left Unimmunized Against Influenza" demonstration grant program (Section 2524, p. 1391)
65. Healthy Teen Initiative grant program regarding teen pregnancy (Section 2526, p. 1398)
66. Grant program for interdisciplinary training, education, and services for individuals with autism (Section 2527(a), p. 1402)
67. University centers for excellence in developmental disabilities education (Section 2527(b), p. 1410)
68. Grant program to implement medication therapy management services (Section 2528, p. 1412)
69. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors in underserved communities (Section 2530, p. 1422)
70. Grant program for State alternative medical liability laws (Section 2531, p. 1431)
71. Grant program to develop infant mortality programs (Section 2532, p. 1433)
72. Grant program to prepare secondary school students for careers in health professions (Section 2533, p. 1437)
73. Grant program for community-based collaborative care (Section 2534, p. 1440)
74. Grant program for community-based overweight and obesity prevention (Section 2535, p. 1457)
75. Grant program for reducing the student-to-school nurse ratio in primary and secondary schools (Section 2536, p. 1462)
76. Demonstration project of grants to medical-legal partnerships (Section 2537, p. 1464)
77. Center for Emergency Care under the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (Section 2552, p. 1478)
78. Council for Emergency Care (Section 2552, p 1479)
79. Grant program to support demonstration programs that design and implement regionalized emergency care systems (Section 2553, p. 1480)
80. Grant program to assist veterans who wish to become emergency medical technicians upon discharge (Section 2554, p. 1487)
81. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 2562, p. 1494)
82. National Medical Device Registry (Section 2571, p. 1501)
83. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 2581, p. 1597)
84. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 2581, p. 1598)
85. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 2581, p. 1602)
86. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1610)
87. National Women's Health Information Center (Section 2588, p. 1611)
88. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1614)
89. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women's Health and Gender-Based Research (Section 2588, p. 1617)
90. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1618)
91. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women's Health (Section 2588, p. 1621)
92. Personal Care Attendant Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 2589(a)(2), p. 1624)
93. Grant program for national health workforce online training (Section 2591, p. 1629)
94. Grant program to disseminate best practices on implementing health workforce investment programs (Section 2591, p. 1632)
95. Demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (Section 3101, p. 1717)
96. Demonstration program for substance abuse counselor educational curricula (Section 3101, p. 1719)
97. Program of Indian community education on mental illness (Section 3101, p. 1722)
98. Intergovernmental Task Force on Indian environmental and nuclear hazards (Section 3101, p. 1754)
99. Office of Indian Men's Health (Section 3101, p. 1765)
100. Indian Health facilities appropriation advisory board (Section 3101, p. 1774)
101. Indian Health facilities needs assessment workgroup (Section 3101, p. 1775)
102. Indian Health Service tribal facilities joint venture demonstration projects (Section 3101, p. 1809)
103. Urban youth treatment center demonstration project (Section 3101, p. 1873)
104. Grants to Urban Indian Organizations for diabetes prevention (Section 3101, p. 1874)
105. Grants to Urban Indian Organizations for health IT adoption (Section 3101, p. 1877)
106. Mental health technician training program (Section 3101, p. 1898)
107. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (Section 3101, p. 1909)
108. Program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims and perpetrators (Section 3101, p. 1925)
109. Program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (Section 3101, p. 1927)
110. Native American Health and Wellness Foundation (Section 3103, p. 1966)
111. Committee for the Establishment of the Native American Health and Wellness Foundation (Section 3103, p. 1968)

The above is why a bill needs to be read.

T.

big kahuna

Nov 2, 09 12:32

Post #6 of 69 (608 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

And here's the winner of the Scariest Halloween Costume Ever contest:

It's HR 3200 with a Pelosi mask thrown in to really cause people to wet themselves in terror ;-)

It was worn by a guy from San Francisco when he was trick or treating with his kids in Pleasanton, CA.

T.

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 12:32

Post #7 of 69 (608 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You two need a towel to clean up after each other?

I generally agree more consistently with the policy positions of the democratic party than that of the republican party. Especially recently, at the national level, the republican party has been moving in a direction that is in direct opposition with my own beliefs.

Your critiques are so childish. I mean, I knew democrats were bad at losing elections, but you guys act like 5 year olds. I did read the op-ed, I am more than willing to read opposing points of view.

A lot of us are rational people who vote based on our beliefs. Until you all realize that we are voters whose opinions can be swayed and not people blindly following one man, you'll never understand why the country is moving in a different direction than your party seems to be. I am not a person in the middle of the street with my fingers in my ears (nor are most of the people who voted last November), but if you want to think of us that why, then fine. It will only further prevent you from winning our votes. Are there some people with their fingers in their ears? Sure, both parties have them and neither party will ever sway those of the other party over to their side. You criticize the left for being smug and elitist, yet you then make us out to be uneducated baffoons blindly following a "saint".

I don't consider the President (or, Barack, as you refer to him) a "saint". (By the way, I am somewhat suprised as a former military person and aspiring political writer that you so casually refer to the President. I am just curious, but did you always refer to Bush as George? Or is this a sublte dig on your part at Obama?) You falsely escalate what you perceive to be my own opinion of him in order to then criticize me (wasn't the other guy just talking about strawman arguments?). It's stupid and makes you look immature.

(This post was edited by SwBkRn44 on Nov 2, 09 12:37)

Tridiot

Nov 2, 09 12:45

Post #8 of 69 (592 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

With spending and debt already at record peacetime levels, the bill creates a new and probably unrepealable middle-class entitlement that is designed to expand over time. Taxes will need to rise precipitously, even as ObamaCare so dramatically expands government control of health care that eventually all medicine will be rationed via politics.

CBO says this will save money, not cost more in taxes.

Tridiot

Nov 2, 09 12:47

Post #9 of 69 (583 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Two good resources for trying to get a basic grasp on the bill (not directed at you):

Quote:

1) Affordable Health Care for America Act, Detailed Summary. This is a 10-page PDF written in plain language that goes over all the bill�s main provisions in pretty good detail. If you know this document, you�ll have a really good understanding of what�s in the bill and how it works.
2) Affordable Health Care for America Act, Section by Section. This is a 61-page document, written in plain English, that goes over every single Division, Title, Subtitle and section in the bill. Short of drafting errors and any sneaky loopholes (both important reason to read the bill!) this document tells you everything that�s in the 1,990-page legislation.

From - http://www.opencongress.org/...36-Read-the-Summary-

You can read the entire bill and comment on it section by section here.

chainpin

Nov 2, 09 12:52

Post #10 of 69 (577 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Dude, nobody gives a fuck about the 1,900 plus pages, the CONTENT of the bill IS the problem--which, is why your post was a classic strawman.

The Jokercare bill could have been written in an ultra-economical fashion and only taken up 500 pages, but in the end it would still be a big pile of steaming horse shit.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 12:54

Post #11 of 69 (570 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jokercare?

You guys are so clever, man, is there a morning email you all get with jokes to make?

FJB

Nov 2, 09 12:59

Post #12 of 69 (557 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The Jokercare bill could have been written in an ultra-economical fashion and only taken up 500 pages, but in the end it would still be a big pile of steaming horse shit.

With that kind of analysis, you are proving SwBkRn44 correct.

dave_w

Nov 2, 09 13:00

Post #13 of 69 (553 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Jokercare?

You guys are so clever, man, is there a morning email you all get with jokes to make?

wait...didn't you just criticize those guys for what you took as insinuating you don't think on your own?

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 13:09

Post #14 of 69 (532 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [dave_w] [In reply to]	Can't Post

didn't you just criticize those guys for what you took as insinuating you don't think on your own?

Well, I hope he didn't think of that one on his own. If the criticism of Obama is that he is a socialist, the comparison to the joker (an anarchist), makes no sense.

coachjoegold

Nov 2, 09 13:14

Post #15 of 69 (524 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

As a self-employed person, I've been hit hard by numerous taxes in NY. I am totally scared what this bill can do to self-employed people and small businesses on top of what they had to pay this year. Even though big business is prevalent in this country, it's the small businesses that provide the critical pulse that keeps this economy running. This bill quite possibly has the capacity to actually stop that pulse and collapse this country.

Guys, listen up. The Democrats blame big businesses for the crisis. The Republicans blame the government for the crisis. Have any of you maybe realize that both are to blame? You know, like big, corrupt businesses like banks subvert government to serve their means instead of the people? Let's quit this left/right paradigm, stop blaming each other and maybe try to get to the actual truth.
-----------------------------------------------
Coach Joe Gold - A New Name for a New Beginning
6 Time Ironman PR: 10:36:37. HIM PR: 4:20:10
7th Ironman and 1st 100 mile ultra in 2010.
20 year Triathlon coach at affordable rates.

chainpin

Nov 2, 09 13:15

Post #16 of 69 (522 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

WealthCare doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well as JokerCare--yuh feel me?

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 13:17

Post #17 of 69 (518 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Wealthcare"? I'd like some of that.

I'd be curious if you walked down the street and asked people if they wanted wealthcare, what the response would be. My guess would be that most say, "Yes, please."

chainpin

Nov 2, 09 13:24

Post #18 of 69 (507 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Well there is a reason why Nancy Pelosi was trying to get people to call the public option by antoher name--if it sounds good, better get some of it.

And btw, the Joker is a nihilist, not an anarchist.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

trail

Nov 2, 09 13:29

Post #19 of 69 (501 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Good call on both the Joker and WealthCare. The Joker is an off-the-charts right-winger. On the Mavericky scale he makes Palin look like Trotsky.

And "WealthCare" sounds like a brand of retirement-date based mutual fund.

BK, ChainPin, et al need to get back to work....

Curvy Boy

Nov 2, 09 13:34

Post #20 of 69 (490 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [big kahuna] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Is this a correct scenario/question?

Those without employer insurance would go to the "exchange." There, individuals purchase coverage from insurance companies and the government pays for most of it. The insurance companies will either offer it by themselves or through a public option but the benefits and compensation to the insurance companies will be determined by government regulation. Participating insurers must take all-comers.

How do insurers make money and what if they don't want to particpate?

Rodred

Nov 2, 09 14:09

Post #21 of 69 (467 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Wait wait wait let me get this straight.

"Especially recently, at the national level, the republican party has been moving in a direction that is in direct opposition with my own beliefs."

Thats a mouthful. So the party is farther left than its been in the memory of anyone who is still living, JFK could possibly be too conservative to be a "republican" these day and you say "recently" they are moving in a direction you dont like?

Where have you been all of these years? What is this sudden change they have taken that has caused you to think "Man they almost had me but now they are just radical right-wing nuts I wish they were like they were a year ago."

Rodred

Nov 2, 09 14:32

Post #22 of 69 (446 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [Curvy Boy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. You have figured out in just a few questions exactly what their plan is and why the Big O can say "You can keep your insurance company" and not really lie...well except forgetting to add that the people they will compete against can print money and raise taxes to cover any losses while they force companies out of business so as to gain control and implement Obamas plan.

http://74.125.47.132/...mp;ct=clnk&gl=us

�I don�t think we�re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There�s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out, or 15 years out, or 20 years out.�

tri_yoda

Nov 2, 09 14:36

Post #23 of 69 (439 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [SwBkRn44] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

I immediately take less seriously any criticism the invokes the length of the bill.

Why?

I think it is spot on criticism to look at the size of the bill. Unless you are trying to pull something over on someone, why is it that long?

Likewise, 2000 pages means that not one of the legislators that vote on it will have read all, or even a substantial part of it. How is it responsible for the government to pass laws that they have not even read? How can anyone even know if there is a reason for the length of the bill without reading the entire thing?

Using the excuse that other bills are long also, just shows how people have been fooled in to accepting a ridiculous premise, and now this is the new normal. If I was in congress I would demand that the entire bill be read into record before it could be voted upon and I think this should be true of almost any bill.

I am going to write to my congressmen and senator's with a resounding, no f'ing way on this bill.

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 14:47

Post #24 of 69 (430 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [Rodred] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, how about instead of "especially recently" I had phrased it, "on recent issues" as that's what I was referring to (sorry for the poor wording). Environmental issues, gay marriage, religion, handling of recent foreign policy challenges, etc.

SwBkRn44

Nov 2, 09 14:49

Post #25 of 69 (430 views)

Re: WSJ Calls new House Healthcare Bill "Worst Bill Ever" [du_yoda] [In reply to]	Can't Post

What I posted on a similar thread in the past.

These stupid "1,000 page" bill complaint are ridiculous. First, with regards to the writing of the bills, did you know that the non-partisan Office of Legislative Council actually writes the bills? With regards to reading them, that's what Congressmen/women have staffs for. Does your company's CEO read every piece of paper that passes through your organization? Or does he rely on people with expertise in certain areas to provide him with the relevant information?

Bills are long, get over it, there's a lot that goes into them, here's a good explanation, have a read and educate yourself.

http://www.slate.com/id/2225820/

The bill is 1,900 pages, I am confident a congressional staff can tackle that, considering millions of 12 year olds read Harry Potter books that are just as long.

1 2 3

View All