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Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters...
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Jim_n_La
Aug 14, 08 9:30
Post #1 of 32 (688 views)
Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters...
Can't Post
From a link on HuffPost (so not Fox). Caveat, there's only ~300 samples, still maybe demos are not universally despised in the military...
According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat
Barack Obama
has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican
John McCain
, and the fiercely anti-war
Ron Paul
, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul.
...
Individuals in the Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps have all leaned Republican this cycle, but the only branch in which that ideology has carried over to the presidential race is the Marine Corps, where McCain leads Obama by about $4,000. In each of the other branches -- including the Navy, in which McCain served when he was taken prisoner during the Vietnam War -- Obama leads by significant margins.
Also...
Only the Coast Guard prefers Democrats across the board, with 78 percent of employees' total federal contributions going to members of that party, and Obama beating McCain $7,795 to $250. Navas anecdotally confirmed that soldiers are often conservative but that many are making an exception in the presidential race. "Most of my friends are conservative Republicans and they say, 'I'm voting for Barack.' McCain does not have a lock on the military vote, that's for sure," he said. "We'll complete our duty -- I'm deploying next year -- because it's a commitment I made to the nation, not to a president. But we all know that Iraq was a big mistake."
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
parkito
Aug 14, 08 9:48
Post #2 of 32 (658 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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Aw, I thought this was going to be an update that MattinSF was determined to be off his meds for the last week and that remedial actions have been taken.
Sooo disappointed.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
jec
Aug 14, 08 10:20
Post #3 of 32 (623 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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that doesn't necessarily mean obama has the military vote.it may just mean that more democrats gave than republicans.i served as an enlisted soldier from 99 until 03 and in my experience most have conservative values and don't make enough money to give to presidential campaign's.i think it pretty obvious at this point that conservatives are not that excited about mccain.that is going to effect the amount of campaign donations he receives.as far as conservative republicans voting for obama,by virtue of an obama vote one can not be a conservative republican and if they say they are they are mistaken or lying.
dave_w
Aug 14, 08 10:32
Post #4 of 32 (607 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [jec]
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Yup, the tale-teller will be shown by the fierceness with which democrats protest, and otherwise try to prevent the counting of absentee military votes...THAT will show what they really think the tallies will be.
"It's all about self-esteem"
David in FL
Aug 14, 08 10:43
Post #5 of 32 (596 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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Wow......a sample of 300?!
Well, there ya go.
No way to argue with that!
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
Jim_n_La
Aug 14, 08 11:08
Post #6 of 32 (570 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [jec]
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Agreed, in my experience the military are in general more comfortable with the Republican party, not saying all but most. As you state, it may be more a lack of enthusiasm for McCain. This too from the article (note to self: these guys are busy on more urgent business than reading forums/blogs/etc)...
"It's hard to describe how apolitical a lot of the enlisted ranks are. He's worried about other things than following the news."
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
Demagogue
Aug 14, 08 12:02
Post #7 of 32 (523 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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You can't believe anything from the media.
My neighbors son is stationed in Germany. When Obama was there CNN polled an entire room of soldiers, 60 total, on their choice for president. Fourteen (14) of the sixty were voting for Obama, Thirty-nine were for McCain and rest undecided.
When CNN showed the "interviews" they showed 5 soldiers that were for Obama and 1 for McCain and relayed these interviews as the "results".
My neighors son was furious to say the least.
old-as-dirt
Aug 14, 08 12:06
Post #8 of 32 (518 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Demagogue]
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maybe your neighbor's son is the liar? ever considered that?
unstable and unable --- mccain and palin 2008
parkito
Aug 14, 08 12:20
Post #9 of 32 (501 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [old-as-dirt]
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How incredibly astute.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
Jim_n_La
Aug 14, 08 12:31
Post #10 of 32 (480 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Demagogue]
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As noted the sample is small (about 320 I think), hence hard to extrapolate to the whole military or to how they'll vote come nov. So it's not surprising it goes against your anecdotal evidence. Likewise it's noted that the military with the exception of the Coast Guard generally leans republican. That said, campaign contributions must be reported and as I understand the article that's all they're reporting, the tally of contributors (over $200) for each candidate.
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
vitus979
Aug 14, 08 12:35
Post #11 of 32 (470 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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I wonder what the distribution of political contributors within the military looks like. I'd guess that those contributing more than $200 are overwhelmingly officers, and at the higher end of the payscale.
Which doesn't make your story any less interesting, or any less unusual. I think that it's just maybe a slightly different story- reflects dissatisfaction with the war and willingness to vote Obama among the upper end of the officer corps, rather than throughout the military.
That's speculation, obviously.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Demagogue
Aug 14, 08 12:58
Post #12 of 32 (449 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [old-as-dirt]
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No, Ken, I never considered that. I've known him for 20 years and know him as an honest and forthcoming young man...someone to be proud of for many reasons. While you may wish to try and assasinate his character in a effort to refute his story (a very poor and deplorable thing to do on your part), you would fail.
Perhaps you think he was lying when he took an oath to defend the country you live in and protect your right to make such ridiculous statements. For your sake, you should hope he didn't.
Just to be clear, he doesn't have a dog in the fight yet. He was one of the undecided votes because he was trying to sort out the facts and how they apply to him. Sounds like advice you could use.
JSA
Aug 14, 08 13:12
Post #13 of 32 (437 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Jim_n_La]
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How did they make campaign contributions WHILE deployed? When I was deployed, I did not have a checkbook or a credit card. I sure as shit wasn't spending what little free time I had making campaign contributions. I am a little skeptical. Is the report certain that the contributions were actually being made by the servicemembers who were deployed and not the pissed off spouses back in the states (who had the credit cards/check books) that wanted Joe (or Jo) to come home?
Just a thought ...
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
TRANSITION -
Get Moving!
FJB
Aug 14, 08 14:25
Post #14 of 32 (402 views)
Post deleted by FJB
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parkito
Aug 14, 08 14:35
Post #15 of 32 (394 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [FJB]
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It is kind of funny though that people dismiss the Obama support because of only 320 respondents, yet you seem to think it can be dismissed because of CNN's poll of 60.
You missed the point entirely. CNN,
misrepresented
the results of the informal, non-statistically significant poll altogether. Furthermore, even if the room of 60 soldiers were pro-Obama, to use that as a basis for claiming a statistic for Obama with respect to the military would be further inaccurate, misleading, and given the responsibility the media has in reporting the truth, an outright lie as they should and do know better.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
Tridiot
Aug 14, 08 14:44
Post #16 of 32 (387 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [JSA]
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My friends who have been overseas (either in combat or as civilians) have said they had a good bit of internet access. So they were IM'ing with their family, or doing stuff like that (heck, some guys spend a bit too much time on freakin' Facebook or MySpace). So if they had internet access, they could readily use that to make campaign contributions.
Not how I'd spend my time, but glad that they can express their political views. Here's to hoping all (ALL!) their votes are recognized this time around.
Demagogue
Aug 14, 08 17:37
Post #17 of 32 (351 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [FJB]
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"It is kind of funny though that people dismiss the Obama support because of only 320 respondents, yet you seem to think it can be dismissed because of CNN's poll of 60."
I never said anything of the sort. My comment was that you can't believe what the media is portraying and I gave an example of their misrepresentation. You really did miss the point entirely.
BarryP
Aug 14, 08 19:48
Post #18 of 32 (326 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [David in FL]
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Quote
Wow......a sample of 300?!
Well, there ya go.
No way to argue with that!
The beauty about not being very good about math is that you can believe whatever you want no matter what the numbers say!
A sample size of 300 gives you a margin of error of only a few percent. Play with the numbers if you wish......or make more smart remarks. Your choice.
http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html
______________________________________________
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JSA
Aug 14, 08 20:20
Post #19 of 32 (316 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [Tridiot]
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My friends who have been overseas (either in combat or as civilians) have said they had a good bit of internet access. So they were IM'ing with their family, or doing stuff like that (heck, some guys spend a bit too much time on freakin' Facebook or MySpace). So if they had internet access, they could readily use that to make campaign contributions.
- I had plenty of internet time when I was deployed. However, as I said before, I had no checkbook and no credit card. Neither did most guys in my unit. I really doubt those guys are making campaign contributions during that time or have the means to do so. I go back to my earlier suspicion that spouses at home, pissed about the soldier not being home, may be making those contributions using the joint credit cards in both names.
Not how I'd spend my time, but glad that they can express their political views. Here's to hoping all (ALL!) their votes are recognized this time around.
- As I have posted in the past, I was the Command Judge Advocate for ARCENT-KU during the Bush/Gore election. I represented the Florida National Guardsmen whose votes were tossed out during that election. Yeah, it would be nice if servicemember votes actually count this time...
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
TRANSITION -
Get Moving!
ajfranke
Aug 15, 08 3:02
Post #20 of 32 (283 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [JSA]
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I thought the military vote was ultimately counted. Do I have that wrong?
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
David in FL
Aug 15, 08 6:36
Post #21 of 32 (259 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [BarryP]
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I guess I should have said,
a sample of only 300 compiled by completely
unbiased
source.
Is that better?
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
JSA
Aug 15, 08 6:40
Post #22 of 32 (257 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [ajfranke]
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In Reply To
I thought the military vote was ultimately counted. Do I have that wrong?
You have that wrong. 30,000 votes from my area of operation were discarded, including every vote cast by the entire Florida National Guard Battalion. Total b.s. Everything was done properly from the sealing of ballots to the delivery to the postal service under armed guard at all times. Spoke with 1 Senator, 2 Congressmen, and several officials from the Florida Election Commission. Nothing.
I was a Texas resident at the time and voted absentee ballot before I left, so, my own vote was not at issue. Most of the members in my (active duty) unit voted before we left. But, imagine this -- you are a Guardsman, so you are not a full time soldier. You serve your country by being willing to drop everything -- spouse, family, job, civilian life -- to deploy to the Gulf. How are you repaid? Your vote is discarded without even a second thought. These guys were absolutely crushed. It really sucked. I felt really bad for them. They whole experience was surreal.
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
TRANSITION -
Get Moving!
Andrewmc
Aug 15, 08 6:58
Post #23 of 32 (249 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [David in FL]
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but that is clearly not what you meant, your point was that 300 was an insufficient sample size, not that the source was biased, clearly you did not / do not understand the stats.........all you needed to say was the source was biased but you clearly commented on something you apparently know little about, or if you do know about it you made a school by error.
ajfranke
Aug 15, 08 6:59
Post #24 of 32 (248 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [JSA]
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Again, I am going by memory, and I am only addressing the case of Florida since that was the only area that made a difference in the outcome of the election. Were Texas in dispute, doubtless lawsuits would have been brought to get those votes counted as well.
I remember that the military vote was in dispute, with the Gore camp trying to prevent it from being counted and the Bush camp trying to get it counted. I thought Bush had succeeded, though it may well have been that his 537 vote margin was upheld without it, so he let it go.
Is the above close to being accurate?
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
JSA
Aug 15, 08 7:08
Post #25 of 32 (174 views)
Re: Update on sad, pathetic Obama supporters... [ajfranke]
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In Reply To
Again, I am going by memory, and I am only addressing the case of Florida since that was the only area that made a difference in the outcome of the election. Were Texas in dispute, doubtless lawsuits would have been brought to get those votes counted as well.
I remember that the military vote was in dispute, with the Gore camp trying to prevent it from being counted and the Bush camp trying to get it counted. I thought Bush had succeeded, though it may well have been that his 537 vote margin was upheld without it, so he let it go.
Is the above close to being accurate?
I do not remember the total numbers, but, there were something like 250,000 total military votes at issue (if memory serves me). Many (but not a majority) of them were ultimately counted. However, of that number, 30,000 from ARCENT-KU were not counted. That was the command to which I was assigned. Of that number, somewhere in the ball park of 3,000 were from the Florida Guardsmen assigned to ARCENT-KU. None of those votes were counted.
There likely were other Florida votes in the 250,000 military votes at issue. I cannot speak as to what happened to those. All I know is that 30,000 from ARCENT-KU were discarded, which included the 3,000 or so FL Guard.
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
TRANSITION -
Get Moving!
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