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U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout.
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sorelian
Aug 21, 08 7:23
Post #1 of 20 (309 views)
U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout.
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http://news.yahoo.com/..._on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq
Looks like the dreaded "timetable" is on the table and everyone seems to be amazingly oblivious of how abhorrent this word was a couple of months ago.
Hopefully, this will go through and Iraqis can decide whether or not they want something better or if the country will destabilize back into chaos.
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Pass the weak, hurdle the dead.
jryan
Aug 21, 08 7:39
Post #2 of 20 (290 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [sorelian]
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After reading the subject line I really thought I was going to find a link to a story on The Onion.
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by jryan on Aug 21, 08 7:40)
David in FL
Aug 21, 08 8:13
Post #3 of 20 (267 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [sorelian]
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I hope that you're able to write more accurately in an historical context than you do about current events......or you're gonna have a helluva time with that upcoming masters thesis defense.
Just sayin'.......
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
sorelian
Aug 21, 08 8:19
Post #4 of 20 (265 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [David in FL]
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No need to hope... The people who are guiding me are kind of a whose who in the field and they don't just help anyone (since they are Emeritus and don't have too.)
Sorry if you didn't like my "fark" like headline. I thought it was funny...
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Pass the weak, hurdle the dead.
Jim_n_La
Aug 21, 08 9:32
Post #5 of 20 (236 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [sorelian]
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"I thought it was funny..."
I agree, sorry for the tardy LOL...
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
parkito
Aug 21, 08 9:42
Post #6 of 20 (230 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [sorelian]
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Cute thread title, but it is already too late!
As many here will tell you, Democracy has been born in Iraq. If you listen to the liberals, they claim it is more a case of rape. The hard core conservatives point to it as a beautiful baby, and a terrific example of reproduction suitable for the rest of the region. (Kind of an Aryan thing going there, but I digress.)
So, the real question is will this baby be recognized in the future as ours by the U.S., or will it be labelled a bastard if it mutates into something else after the U.S. withdrawal?
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
CaptainCanada
Aug 21, 08 9:49
Post #7 of 20 (223 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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I suspect this will turn into a mutant child and rebel against the parent.
I really have a hard time with imposing democracy. Democracy needs to be worked for, fought for, not imposed, in order to flourish.
And what happens the first time this "democracy" elects someone the US does not like? (see Palestine)
I am not convinced that democracy is the best political system for a muslim dominated population. Culturally it just does not seem to compute. I could be way off base here. Thoughts?
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2009 Race Schedule:
Wine Country Oly, IM Lanzarote, Wasa Lake Oly, Rhode Island 70.3, Ultraman Canada Relay, Apple Oly, IMC, Grand Columbian Half
parkito
Aug 21, 08 9:54
Post #8 of 20 (219 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [CaptainCanada]
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You're doing this on purpose, aren't you?
I also don't think a purely democratic form of government will work long term in Iraq. They still haven't overcome their internal diversity issues. Iran is sitting next door with a lot of plans of their own. No one else is going to provide them with a lot of stability.
I'm trusting that when we are out of there, we are really out of there, and that if the government takse a huge change in direction, we let it go.
When a turtle is crossing a road, you either help it cross the road or you leave it alone. Bringing it back to the original side of the road doesn't change its mind.
edit for a couple of irritatin sp typos.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
(This post was
edited
by parkito on Aug 21, 08 10:49)
fitzie
Aug 21, 08 10:02
Post #9 of 20 (208 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [sorelian]
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Let's get the record straight. It is a "time horizon" not timetable. Calling it a timetable would be flip flopping and we know Republicans don't do that.
The real reason for this now? Well, things are relatively better in Iraq than they have been since the beginning of the war. More importantly we need the troops in Afghanistan.
Of the 140,000 currently in Iraq, many of these will find themselves deployed again, this time to Afghanistan. Let's hope they don't also have two, three and four tours there as well.
"We thought that we had the answers, it was the questions we had wrong."
Bono
CaptainCanada
Aug 21, 08 10:10
Post #10 of 20 (202 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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When a turtle is crossing a road, you either help it cross the road or you leave it alone. Bringing it back to the original side of the road doesn't change its mind.
I did not know you had seen me race.
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2009 Race Schedule:
Wine Country Oly, IM Lanzarote, Wasa Lake Oly, Rhode Island 70.3, Ultraman Canada Relay, Apple Oly, IMC, Grand Columbian Half
Jim_n_La
Aug 21, 08 10:33
Post #11 of 20 (185 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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"When a turtle is crossing a road, you either help it cross the road or you leave it alone. Bringing it back to the original side of the road doesn't change its mind..."
That is possibly the most intriguing analogy I've ever seen here. If I'm on a bike ride and if I see a turtle in the road AND If I'm inclined, I'll carefully move him to one side. However, I'm pretty skeptical of whether a turtle would know one side of the road from the other or whether said turtle is attempting to get from one side to the other. I think ascribing such motives to a turtle is projecting on my part, I'm actually trying to get somewhere (it's an out and back ride). Who knows who's approach is right, the turtle who's probably content to walk the face of the earth (road or not) or myself who's artificially carved out 'here to there' from reality. Now I've seen wild hogs while riding but I try avoid any contact with them. What was the question?
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
parkito
Aug 21, 08 10:47
Post #12 of 20 (176 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [Jim_n_La]
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Trust me on the turtle thing. They may scoot back tot he original side if they are real close to it, but as soon as you are gone, out they come again. This is from my childhood days.
As a much older bike rider, I've moved dozens across the road in the last 5 years here in NJ and southern NY. People in cars tend to not pay any attention.
So, what was the original question?
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
fitzie
Aug 21, 08 11:02
Post #13 of 20 (167 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [Jim_n_La]
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Analogy: You are America and Iraq is the turtle. You are smarter than the turtle and know what is best for him. You got him out of harms way, although there was no real evidence that he was going to get hurt and he certaintly wasn't a threat to you.
What you didn't expect is that when you first picked him up, you scared the shit out of him and he pissed on you. Then the whole time you were trying to save him, he was cowered under his shell because you invaded his personal space. Only when you put him back down and stepped away did he come out of his shell.
As for the wild hogs: Stay away from the Lavendar Room :)
"We thought that we had the answers, it was the questions we had wrong."
Bono
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CaptainCanada
Aug 21, 08 11:05
Post #14 of 20 (163 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [fitzie]
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Analogy: You are America and Iraq is the turtle. You are smarter than the turtle and know what is best for him. You got him out of harms way, although there was no real evidence that he was going to get hurt and he certaintly wasn't a threat to you.
What you didn't expect is that when you first picked him up, you scared the shit out of him and he pissed on you. Then the whole time you were trying to save him, he was cowered under his shell because you invaded his personal space. Only when you put him back down and stepped away did he come out of his shell.
As for the wild hogs: Stay away from the Lavendar Room :)
Ding ding ding ... we have a winner!!!
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2009 Race Schedule:
Wine Country Oly, IM Lanzarote, Wasa Lake Oly, Rhode Island 70.3, Ultraman Canada Relay, Apple Oly, IMC, Grand Columbian Half
trio_jeepy
Aug 21, 08 11:10
Post #15 of 20 (157 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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I think you pointed out something interesting that I've noted for some time now.
That is, at some point, with something as big and complicated as the Iraq War, and the passing of more time and more chronology, you very quickly lose the causal threads necessary to really understand what happened and more importantly, why. Then it becomes a matter for historians and unfortunately, politicians, to unravel based on their biases and so forth. But I don't think we reach a much greater understanding, and too many what-ifs start to fill in the cracks of time for us to really judge whether particular decisions were good or bad.
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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" - Benjamin Franklin
"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
parkito
Aug 21, 08 11:43
Post #16 of 20 (128 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [fitzie]
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You are America and Iraq is the turtle. You are smarter than the turtle and know what is best for him. You got him out of harms way, although there was no real evidence that he was going to get hurt and he certaintly wasn't a threat to you.
What you didn't expect is that when you first picked him up, you scared the shit out of him and he pissed on you. Then the whole time you were trying to save him, he was cowered under his shell because you invaded his personal space. Only when you put him back down and stepped away did he come out of his shell.
Uh, okay, you don't know turtles. ;-)
I've been fascinated by them since third grade, being a biologist since birth. I know what a plastron is and a carapace. Usually, I can even tell the sex by looking.
Given all that, I still don't know what's best for a turtle crossing a road. Often times it seems illogical to cross as the big lake is on the original side. Or, there isn't much to be had on the far side. But, I'm not a turtle, and I can't place myself inside a turtle's head. I just help them cross to get them out of harm's way on the road from obvious threats that I know about.
And, turtles are good at projectile pissing. It is a defense mechanism. I've been nailed a few times, it can be surprisingly stinky. Some do, some don't. More than a few will try to bite you and or claw at you. About half will just sit in their shell. Sounds a little familiar, doesn't it?
Now, for the analogy.
Lots of people think we are smarter than Iraq. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. I have my opinion. However, Iraq is clearly smarter than a turtle. Treating them intellectually like a turtle is neither appropriate or smart.
The Iraqi's problem isn't smarts, though, it is a lack of clear goals and a plan to get there compounded by personal interests of the various sects. I think we could have been and have been helpful in that area. But, we can only do so much. If that turtle wants to cross the road, even if we see nothing worthwhile on the other side, at some point we have to let it go and let it work out the consequences.
We have spent a lot of time, money, and most importantly lives helping Iraq in the last four years. I don't see doing this for much longer, let alone forever. It's time to let them decide where they are going to go.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
JasoninHalifax
Aug 21, 08 11:52
Post #17 of 20 (120 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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When she was a little girl, my ex's mother used to throw pet turtles out the window to see how far they could fly...
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Fishtwitch clique (ex-butterflyer)
"Cats like Ham" - Tom D.
fitzie
Aug 21, 08 11:53
Post #18 of 20 (119 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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Bravo, Parkito! We have to set them down on the safest part of the road as possible and let them decide where they want to go.
"We thought that we had the answers, it was the questions we had wrong."
Bono
Jim_n_La
Aug 21, 08 12:00
Post #19 of 20 (111 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [parkito]
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"I can even tell the sex by looking..."
Dude...;-)
Jim_n_La
...what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but only until it kills you - Cousin Elwood
parkito
Aug 21, 08 12:15
Post #20 of 20 (104 views)
Re: U.S. fears getting Iraq pregnant...agrees to pullout. [Jim_n_La]
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Hey, I was raised Catholic. What can I say?
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
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