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The economy is improving thanks to Obama
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YaHey
Nov 5, 09 9:32
Post #1 of 76 (675 views)
The economy is improving thanks to Obama
Can't Post
Actually, many of the stimulus waste-the-taxpayers-money-to-bail-out-the-rich-people programs were from the Bush administration. Under those stimulus programs, the rich got richer (AIG bonuses, GM bonuses, buyouts of cheap assets), and the poor got butkus.
Under Obama's stimulus programs we have a strong stock market, housing increases, decreased unemployment, and corporate earnings. For the first time the middle class is winning.
What do the nay sayers say now?
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Mito Chondria
Nov 5, 09 9:44
Post #2 of 76 (655 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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shouldn't you put that in pink font? ;)
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jackmott
Nov 5, 09 9:47
Post #3 of 76 (647 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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I'm not sure how you can scientifically link any economic occurance with any particular political action, ever.
also I woiuld suggest any conclusion, negative, positive, or neutral, would be too soon, at this point.
ford making money as a result of passing them taxpayer dollars from cash for clunkers for instance, is not real progress. its like running on treadmill.
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jkca1
Nov 5, 09 9:48
Post #4 of 76 (646 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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Look at the deficit lately? Not all "O"s fault but he hasn't done a darn thing to reduce it. We, as a country, cannot live like this.
'
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
YaHey
Nov 5, 09 9:53
Post #5 of 76 (637 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [jkca1]
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What's the defict as a percentage of GDP? Besides why the focus on the deficit now after so many decades? Its not like anyone really cares.
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big kahuna
Nov 5, 09 10:00
Post #6 of 76 (628 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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Actually, many of the stimulus waste-the-taxpayers-money-to-bail-out-the-rich-people programs were from the Bush administration. Under those stimulus programs, the rich got richer (AIG bonuses, GM bonuses, buyouts of cheap assets), and the poor got butkus.
Under Obama's stimulus programs we have a strong stock market, housing increases, decreased unemployment, and corporate earnings. For the first time the middle class is winning.
What do the nay sayers say now?
Nay, varlet. Thou know not of what thou speak ;-) Freemen and others have had their say in such a manner that there can be no disputation they are not convinced by your ruminations, nor are they gladdened or calmed by the "jobs created or saved" musings from those who seem not to have a clue about the geld and how callously it has been treated by the current liege lord. Thus, such disputations and recriminations as thought just and righteous will continue apace for nigh unto 12 new moons until the scoundrels are delivered to their just reward, and those who speak in polite gatherings of such parlous and scandalous past rulers who have also been sent into exile are pilloried as they so richly deserve.
T.
efernand
Nov 5, 09 10:02
Post #7 of 76 (626 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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Quote:
decreased unemployment
Uh, sure. If you mean the number of NEW filers was less then last month, but it was still 500k MORE people out of work.
.
MJuric
Nov 5, 09 10:04
Post #8 of 76 (622 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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What's the defict as a percentage of GDP?
83.8%
, higher than anytime since the WWII era.
Besides why the focus on the deficit now after so many decades?
Seems some people only notice criticism when it's "on their guy". I think most on the right and definitely anyone who is an actual fiscal conservative HAS been "Focusing" on the deficit for decades.
~Matt
MJuric
Nov 5, 09 10:19
Post #9 of 76 (609 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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Under Obama's stimulus programs ,
First as other have stated how does one make any effort to connect the stimulus program to the current situation? Particularly since to date a mere 158B has been awarded and mere fraction of that has actually been received and has had any "Economic" impact whatsoever.
Unless one is really drinking the "Hope" coolaid and believes that the "Hope" of getting some of that 787B is driving the 14.3 trillion dollar economy I completely fail to see how this has any significant impact.
we have a strong stock market
Seriously? By what measure?
housing increases,
It would appear the market has started to turn around, but it's also being propped up by continued influx of government spending. When the tax credit stops and if/when the commercial market takes a crap I suspect we may see another down turn.
decreased unemployment,
You mean slowing increases don't you? Again not to point out the obvious but at some point that HAS to stop. Government or no government once you reach zero employment unemployment stops increasing.
Actual unemployment continues to increase and likely will for several more months. We are currently at 9.9% and will likely reach 10% or more.
and corporate earnings.
...are lower than they were a couple years ago. Besides I thought corporations were evil or something :-)
For the first time the middle class is winning.
Huh?! In some sense yes, the collapse has lowered housing prices, but with 10% unemployment versus half that a couple years ago a WHOLE bunch of the "Middle class" is taking it in the pants.
What do the nay sayers say now?
Same thing I said before the spending took place. How will we know that it was the stimulus package that made these minor improvements? I'd also follow that up with, you're standards for the middle class are pretty low and you must have thought the middle class was cutting a fat hog in the ass 3-4 years ago...you know under Bush.
~Matt
big kahuna
Nov 5, 09 10:22
Post #10 of 76 (604 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [MJuric]
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Seems some people only notice criticism when it's "on their guy". I think most on the right and definitely anyone who is an actual fiscal conservative HAS been "Focusing" on the deficit for decades.
The varlet's disputations cannot stand to walk in the light of day, sire. Why dost thou persist in such vain and futile effort?
T.
Mito Chondria
Nov 5, 09 10:26
Post #11 of 76 (597 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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"What's the defict as a percentage of GDP? Besides why the focus on the deficit now after so many decades? Its not like anyone really cares. "
Maybe you should join Clinton and Geithner on their next trip to China. They could use an additional spokesperson for making a case that inflating the USD doesn't matter...
and don't worry, they can cover your trip as they should have enough frequent flyer miles by now ;)
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(This post was
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MJuric
Nov 5, 09 10:30
Post #12 of 76 (586 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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Why dost thou persist in such vain and futile effort?
Because it's what I do.
~Matt
Rob C in FL
Nov 5, 09 10:44
Post #13 of 76 (567 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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Hmm, it seems that "varlet" is a valid Scrabble word. Helpful, considering that I always have trouble getting rid of vees.
As long as equal-opportunity pillorying of those scandalous past rulers continues, that all sounds fine to me. :)
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Mito Chondria
Nov 5, 09 10:53
Post #14 of 76 (553 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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In Reply To:
Under Obama's stimulus programs we have a strong stock market
For now as they made it policy to pump large sums of money into the market to prop it up. Further, accounting changes were the root that initiated this bear market (bubble) rally.
In Reply To:
decreased unemployment
Do you really believe this? Wow!
In Reply To:
and corporate earnings
Corporate earnings due to changes in accounting regulations and market manipulation on low volume. Add to that that many companies are still writing red ink, they just post "better than expected earnings" but that doesn't mean much. There's a big difference between going from negative $2 per share to negative $0.3 per share and going from negative $0.3 per share to making a dollar profit. On top of that, how many "one time items" were excluded to prop earnings? There are many retail stores whose stock price gives you a wrong impression, the ones that come to mind are ETH, BBBY, RL, and many more. Financial Institutions are also not out of the woods yet and I predict a takeover of BAC in the coming years. I think BAC is one of the bigger financial institutions that people have faith in for the wrong reasons. simply because you appear big doesn't mean that you don't have massive losses and "badly" written paper out there. Look at their market share and their share of MBS that are in the upper income areas. That's a house of cards yet to fall hard. And there are many others, e.g. Citi, FITB, etc. The list goes on and on...
Also, should we look at earnings of the government and Fed as well? How about the FDIC and the State's earnings, the unemployment Fund, etc. This stock market rally provides false hope and comes at a future cost. Without the manipulation share prices wouldn't have reached those bubble highs. That was only made possible through government, treasury, and Fed intervention. Yet, manipulation comes at a price. The cost is more unemployment as many CEO's have the small penis syndrome and feel like they have to make acquisitions for future growth and to consolidate expenses. I guess that's what they've learned in their overpriced MBA programs...Happens on top of every bubble and of course I can't know better. But those aquisitions are not only overpriced but on top of that they cause more unemployment. More unemployment when we already close to 15-20%. Only made possible with this "fake" rally. Thank you Mr. Obama, thank you Fed, and thanks Treasury. How wonderful!
In Reply To:
For the first time the middle class is winning
Wow. So artificially trying to inflate housing prices and rents is good for the middle class? Creating inflation is good for them? Wow, we must have a different understanding of what is good for the middle class. All that was done is not for the middle class but caters to the very rich. Look deeper into it and you would understand that it is policy as usual...
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YaHey
Nov 5, 09 11:51
Post #15 of 76 (508 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [Mito Chondria]
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The government is not buying stock in the OTC market, so I don't know why you think they are inflating the values in the capital market.
I also don't get your belief that the government is inflating housing prices. If anything, they are trying to stimulate demand.
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Mito Chondria
Nov 5, 09 11:59
Post #16 of 76 (496 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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In Reply To:
The government is not buying stock in the OTC market, so I don't know why you think they are inflating the values in the capital market.
Bailouts, infusion of money through the Fed, artificial low interest rates, changes to accounting regulations, faking the official government number (then correcting them weeks later), etc. Add to that that Fannie now wants to enter the landlord business...
http://www.sfgate.com/...&type=realestate
In Reply To:
I also don't get your belief that the government is inflating housing prices. If anything, they are trying to stimulate demand.
What do you think making policies to increase the demand while decreasing supply does? On top of that they facilitates the financing...I'd call that price fixing.
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(This post was
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chainpin
Nov 5, 09 12:12
Post #17 of 76 (471 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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On the topic of earnings: Corporate earnings are rising in part because companies are up against easy comparisons versus last year and have been aggressively reducing costs.
There have been very few industries that are seeing top line revenue growth.
One compnay in particularly though owes a HUGE debt to the Liberal establishment, and that would be Amazon.
With so many state legislatures (those dominated by tax and spend liberals) rasing state sales taxes, the number of people flicking to Amazon to purchase goods has exploded.
So Amazon wins huge, while the states end up with less revenue than they would of garnered otherwise.
The economic lesson from all this: If you tax something, you get less of it.
Irrefutable, and ALWAYS ignored by our economically illiterate liberal friends.
"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06
last tri in 83
Nov 5, 09 12:39
Post #18 of 76 (454 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [Mito Chondria]
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It would seem to me the government intervention is the housing market is an effort to stimulate sales to burn through the inventory of properties and stabilize the market. I also don't see how the government (federal) is regulating supply - that is happening on its own by lending constraints, consumer demand and local control.
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TriFloyd
Nov 5, 09 12:47
Post #19 of 76 (441 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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... housing increases ...
Huh? Perhaps, you've been drinking the NAR Kool-aid. Strictly speaking, a slower rate of falling is not an "increase." Or, maybe, you're fooled by the fact that we're at the end of the summer where home prices are seasonally inflated. In that case, hold on tight for a precipitous fall as the winter approaches.
http://www.nytimes.com/...housing-graphic.html
http://www.ritholtz.com/...e-shiller-AUG-09.PNG
http://www.ritholtz.com/...easonal-adjustments/
http://www.ritholtz.com/...all-in-september-09/
Mito Chondria
Nov 5, 09 13:00
Post #20 of 76 (436 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [last tri in 83]
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The government is not manipulating supply and demand directly but they certainly do so indirectly. They regulate supply by bailing out banks and allowing them access to easy money/capital. With that the banks are not forced to foreclose to the same extend they would otherwise and they can play the game by manipulating the market. There are many homes that are in default, the homeowner didn't pay a mortgage in well over a year yet the bank doesn't foreclose. If you would lend somebody money and they would default you'd foreclose on the property because you have to - it makes financial sense or it wouldn't make sense not to foreclose. The big banks on the other hand, with help from the Government and the Fed, can play their games and not foreclose. With that they reduce the supply that should hit the market. And even with the foreclosed homes there is a big "shadow inventory" that they don't put on the market. And now Fannie is entering the rental market...another variable that interferes with market supply and demand. Not much is happening "on its own" in a manipulated environment.
The government also manipulates the demand side with their various Government Sponsored Enterprises such as Fannie, Freddie, etc. by creating a market that shouldn't exist - cheap credit for those that can't afford the asset to begin with.
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(This post was
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FJB
Nov 5, 09 13:07
Post #21 of 76 (423 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [chainpin]
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The economic lesson from all this: If you tax something, you get less of it.
There are 2 economic lessons for me,
1) Governments do not know how to run a business.
2) Corporate taxes should be eliminated. The Corporate tax is just passed on to consumers and they also provide a Corporation with too much incentive to manipulate earnings, and thereby pay less tax.
jkca1
Nov 5, 09 13:28
Post #22 of 76 (404 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [FJB]
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In Reply To:
The economic lesson from all this: If you tax something, you get less of it.
There are 2 economic lessons for me,
1) Governments do not know how to run a business.
2) Corporate taxes should be eliminated. The Corporate tax is just passed on to consumers and they also provide a Corporation with too much incentive to manipulate earnings, and thereby pay less tax.
I like #1. I would like get rid of income tax and replace it with a federal sales tax. This way everybody, employed, unemployed, working under the table...pays.
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
Cavechild
Nov 5, 09 13:42
Post #23 of 76 (392 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [YaHey]
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Quote:
decreased unemployment
I know you're not very smart. But come on. My 3 year old know that going up is not a decrease. Are you really that dumb?
Quote:
stimulus waste-the-taxpayers-money-to-bail-out-the-rich-people programs were from the Bush administration.
Sorry you answerd my question.
Rodred
Nov 5, 09 13:43
Post #24 of 76 (392 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [FJB]
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In Reply To:
The economic lesson from all this: If you tax something, you get less of it.
There are 2 economic lessons for me,
1) Governments do not know how to run a business.
2) Corporate taxes should be eliminated. The Corporate tax is just passed on to consumers and they also provide a Corporation with too much incentive to manipulate earnings, and thereby pay less tax.
Well I just noticed a pig fly by as thats two points in a week that we strongly agree on.
FJB
Nov 5, 09 13:59
Post #25 of 76 (384 views)
Re: The economy is improving thanks to Obama [Rodred]
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Well I just noticed a pig fly by as thats two points in a week that we strongly agree on.
Having spent the day being labelled ignorant and racist by some Liberals due to my views on gay marriage, I'm reverting back to my Conservative ideals :)
The problem is that there are few governments that are actually Conservative, particularly in regard to economics, since government by definition mess up economics....
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