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The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama
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big kahuna
Nov 6, 09 20:41
Post #1 of 85 (784 views)
The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama
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Just thought I'd get my licks in (From John Hinderaker):
Unemployment has reached a 26-year high of 10.2 percent. Today the House Republican Conference sent out this graphic, which is essentially the same as the chart that we've been following for some months now.
It's gone past the point where we could officially declare the "stimulus" bill a failure. At this juncture, I don't see how to avoid the conclusion that the administration's economic policies, taken as a whole, have been misguided.
UPDATE: Heh.
dave_w
Nov 6, 09 21:28
Post #2 of 85 (752 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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1. I protest the scale on the vertical axis.
2. Obama has made a point many times of announcing his goal of stopping the boom/bust economic cycle. His anti-business policies will probably ensure a slow recovery and high unemployment rate for a long time. voila! no boom, Obama is a success.
jackmott
Nov 6, 09 22:12
Post #3 of 85 (743 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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of course there's the other possibility
that the economy is not improving and it has nothing to do with what government does or doesn't do.
that does of course make the stimulus package, an obvious scam, even more obviously a waste of money though =)
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Helitech
Nov 7, 09 4:23
Post #4 of 85 (723 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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Along another line of stimulus , Our local ford dealer did a brisk business in cash for Clunkers . 85 junk cars on the lot , they haven't received one dollar from the government . Reports show , most bought trucks that get
the same mileage as the clunkers .
A friend was looking at mid priced condos downtown 200K - 400K / 2 -8 yrs old . The bank loans are rejected at anything lower than 60% occupancy .
Will foreclosures make whole buildings / developments unsalable , due to low density ?
Once that second wave of home foreclosures hit , we will see the true
bottom .
Last report was 17.5% unemployment ( with those who ran out of benefits and stopped job hunting )
(This post was
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big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 7:07
Post #5 of 85 (686 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [Helitech]
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Once that second wave of home foreclosures hit , we will see the true
bottom .
Ugh. Now my headache's even more intense than before.
I think we're going to see a lot of banks, whether they took TARP money or not, called in and kinda, sorta, you know..."requested" to start freeing up capital and putting it into circulation. Haim and I were discussing something like that happening over in China, which executed a stimulus (to the tune of something like 560 billion dollars or so) in their own economy. The difference was that the government didn't request that banks start loaning, it ordered them to. Ahh...the benefits of a (very)strong central government ;-)
T.
FJB
Nov 7, 09 7:29
Post #6 of 85 (681 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [jackmott]
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that the economy is not improving and it has nothing to do with what government does or doesn't do.
Agreed.
that does of course make the stimulus package, an obvious scam, even more obviously a waste of money though =)
Agreed.
prd
Nov 7, 09 8:56
Post #7 of 85 (663 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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OMG its going to take time. There is not a quick fix to what the past, beginning with Regan, administrations have done.
chainpin
Nov 7, 09 8:59
Post #8 of 85 (658 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [prd]
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OMG its going to take time. There is not a quick fix to what the past, beginning with Regan, administrations have done.
Don't worry there IS a cure for your economic illiteracy.
"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06
prd
Nov 7, 09 9:10
Post #9 of 85 (650 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [chainpin]
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Lets see, last election there was a major shift in which of the two main parties the people voted for. The shift was not because people were happy with the way things were rolling out. The deployment of the stimulus package to those who caused the problem was done by the Bush administration.
dave_w
Nov 7, 09 11:39
Post #10 of 85 (630 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [prd]
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The deployment of the stimulus package to those who caused the problem was done by the Bush administration.
Just as an FYI, the terminology matters here; TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) was rolled out under GWB, with half of that (700B?) left for Obama to direct. The "Stimulus" (787B) package (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) was signed by Obama, and got to his desk with no pub votes at all in the house, and 3 senate pub votes (one of whom has since switched to be a dem).
prd
Nov 7, 09 11:43
Post #11 of 85 (628 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [dave_w]
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Of course the republicans gave not a single vote, b/c its has strings attached to limit the receivers bonuses and salaries.
prd
Nov 7, 09 11:48
Post #12 of 85 (625 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [dave_w]
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Even Greenspan under congressional interrogations admitted that the government should have kept tighter controls.
Haim
Nov 7, 09 12:13
Post #13 of 85 (616 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [prd]
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"Of course the republicans gave not a single vote, b/c its has strings attached to limit the receivers bonuses and salaries."
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You should re-read dave_w's post a little more carefully.
Haim
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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"
big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 13:27
Post #14 of 85 (600 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [dave_w]
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1. I protest the scale on the vertical axis.
2. Obama has made a point many times of announcing his goal of stopping the boom/bust economic cycle. His anti-business policies will probably ensure a slow recovery and high unemployment rate for a long time. voila! no boom, Obama is a success.
I don't have a problem with that at all. What I have a problem with was the assurance made by everybody from Obama on down that if the stimulus were enacted we'd never see unemployment go above, what? 8 percent? To many people, that looks like a lie, whether fair or not. And they (Obama and the Obamanauts) just won't admit they're wrong, much as Dubya and his gang never admitted wrong for just about anything. However, when the mighty, mighty O and his gang refuse to admit error, we see everybody left of center applauding. Now, that's not an economic issue (most people aren't stupid, after all, and can accept that projections made are subject to forces greater than the assumptions originally made to craft the projection), but it IS an issue now of obstinacy that Obama et al seems to be demonstrating in spades. Much as Bush and coterie did.
T.
dave_w
Nov 7, 09 14:54
Post #15 of 85 (574 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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I don't have a problem with that at all. What I have a problem with was the assurance made by everybody from Obama on down that if the stimulus were enacted we'd never see unemployment go above, what? 8 percent? To many people, that looks like a lie, whether fair or not. And they (Obama and the Obamanauts) just won't admit they're wrong, much as Dubya and his gang never admitted wrong for just about anything. However, when the mighty, mighty O and his gang refuse to admit error, we see everybody left of center applauding. Now, that's not an economic issue (most people aren't stupid, after all, and can accept that projections made are subject to forces greater than the assumptions originally made to craft the projection), but it IS an issue now of obstinacy that Obama et al seems to be demonstrating in spades. Much as Bush and coterie did.
T.
I don't know that these guys were lieing, maybe just taking the rosiest of projections from whatever economists they were tapping. You're right about the loss of credibility though. That's hurt his admin somewhat with us commoners, as did the passage of the stimulus plan in about as partisan a manner as possible, just after coming into DC as the post-partisan guy. GWB experienced the same though, and I think it was actually a surprise to him given how TX governance works.
ps. Obama and GWB are so alike it's scary, GWB ended up with power to screw things pretty bad because of 9-11, but I think Obama is set to screw things even moreso due to the strength of his partisan congress.
(This post was
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Mr. Tibbs
Nov 7, 09 14:58
Post #16 of 85 (572 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [dave_w]
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"Obama and GWB are so alike it's scary, GWB ended up with power to screw things pretty bad because of 9-11, but I think Obama is set to screw things even moreso due to the strength of his partisan congress. "
THANK YOU!!!
Mr. Tibbs will justify your sins.
big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 16:02
Post #17 of 85 (565 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [Mr. Tibbs]
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I second that emotion, my brother.
T.
Slowman
Nov 7, 09 16:35
Post #18 of 85 (559 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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republicans in congress, and those here (with the exception of art), don't understand that gains in employment lag behind other benchmarks of economic improvement. for example, you'll note that worker productivity grew at an annualized 10%, announced the same day that unemployment crossed 10%, which is to be expected as businesses lean out.
but once businesses have leaned out as much as they can, they'll hire again when they see consumer confidence growing, and their own inventories depleting. this, assuming their lines of credit are again expanding, which is much more likely to happen because of the reid/pelosi socialist takeover of the banks.
in six, or nine, months, if we aren't adding jobs, then you can sing the republican doomsday song. but if we're adding 100,000 jobs a month by mid-2010, i expect the righties here will fall silent on that issue, and we'll be back on obama's birth certificate.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
FJB
Nov 7, 09 17:06
Post #19 of 85 (541 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [prd]
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Even Greenspan under congressional interrogations admitted that the government should have kept tighter controls.
Greenspan may be the one person most responsible for the mess we are in.
When you put a life long academic into the position of head of the Federal Reserve, you are asking for trouble.
dave_w
Nov 7, 09 17:32
Post #20 of 85 (535 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [Slowman]
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republicans in congress, and those here (with the exception of art), don't understand that gains in employment lag behind other benchmarks of economic improvement. for example, you'll note that worker productivity grew at an annualized 10%, announced the same day that unemployment crossed 10%, which is to be expected as businesses lean out.
but once businesses have leaned out as much as they can, they'll hire again when they see consumer confidence growing, and their own inventories depleting. this, assuming their lines of credit are again expanding, which is much more likely to happen because of the reid/pelosi socialist takeover of the banks.
in six, or nine, months, if we aren't adding jobs, then you can sing the republican doomsday song. but if we're adding 100,000 jobs a month by mid-2010, i expect the righties here will fall silent on that issue, and we'll be back on obama's birth certificate.
Your daft if you think that anyone paying attn doesn't realize employment is a lagging factor, but you want to say your bullish on this economy, given what is happenning to the dollar, the amount of debt we are building, and the dem hopes of codifying into law even more hugely expensive societal changes? Nevermind, I know your answer.
big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 17:47
Post #21 of 85 (526 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [Slowman]
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in six, or nine, months, if we aren't adding jobs, then you can sing the republican doomsday song. but if we're adding 100,000 jobs a month by mid-2010, i expect the righties here will fall silent on that issue, and we'll be back on obama's birth certificate.
Ain't a gonna happen, slick. There SHOULD be jobs gains sometime in 2010, but not nearly at 100k. By then, it's too late for the Dems and they'll be punished at the box office, I mean...the ballot box. Those who say that NJ and VA don't aren't somewhat portentous when it comes to Dems, who even Mark Warner said got "walloped" last Tuesday, have their heads in the sand.
I expect most of the lefties here to go dark, though, if we're still in the horse latitudes, jobs-wise, in 2010. By late-summer, guys like Mr. YaHey and his ilk will be hoarse from screaming, "BUT, BUT...BUSH!!" ;-)
T.
Haim
Nov 7, 09 17:54
Post #22 of 85 (522 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [FJB]
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"Greenspan may be the one person most responsible for the mess we are in.
When you put a life long academic into the position of head of the Federal Reserve, you are asking for trouble."
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What makes you think Greenspan was "a life long academic"?
Haim
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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"
Slowman
Nov 7, 09 21:12
Post #23 of 85 (495 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [big kahuna]
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"
Ain't a gonna happen, slick."
we'll know in a few months, ace.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
FJB
Nov 7, 09 23:44
Post #24 of 85 (481 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [Haim]
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What makes you think Greenspan was "a life long academic"?
A better term is likely a life-long government employee with little real world experience (other than a number of Directorships). Greenspan's policies led to excessive liquidity in the early 2000's. That liquidity, when combined with greed, and no oversight, led to the mortgage crisis as people were giving money away.
Haim
Nov 8, 09 7:34
Post #25 of 85 (460 views)
Re: The Economy is NOT Improving, Thanks to Obama [FJB]
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"A better term is likely a life-long government employee with little real world experience"
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Except for the 30 years he ran his own firm:
"In 1954 Greenspan partnered bond trader William Townsend to form Townsend-Greenspan and company, an economic consulting firm which he stood as Chairman and president from 1954 to 1974."
Haim
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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"
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