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Really glad those green jobs are being created.

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ajfranke

Nov 6, 09 5:54

Post #1 of 54 (392 views)

Really glad those green jobs are being created.	Can't Post

The effect of all those highly subsidized jobs in the solar industry is being felt in a big way right here locally. News comes this morning that Evergreen Solar, a local solar panel manufacturer, is shipping their assembly jobs to China. The numbers are hazy, but it sounds like 250 jobs just headed for the shores of our financial masters.

This company is running completely on subsidies, starting with a lease of 23 acres with a plant for 50 years for $1.00 per year. All of this ultimately comes out of the taxpayer, one way or another, sooner or later.

This is not to take a swipe at the company. From what I can tell, they are a well run company with a quality product that is just making an intelligent decision. This is to take a swipe at the policies that make disasters like this and ethanol and any number of other green fiascos possible.

There are lots of unemployed kids here that would be well served to get a job at that plant and more than happy to compete with their counterparts in China and basically kick their ass. They aren't being allowed to do this though due to many government policies ranging from minimum wage laws to environmental laws to health care entitlements to other taxes. We keep doing more and more of the same, and we keep getting increasingly worse results. Why do you suppose that is?
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04

Art Franke

Slowman

Nov 6, 09 6:34

Post #2 of 54 (368 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

it's clear to me, art, that green technologies are the closest current analog to the dotcom boom of the 90s. most people don't remember the big white collar layoff in the early 90s, and this ready supply of brain and sweat power presaged the startups that propelled our economy during that decade.

we have the same relative situation now, with high unemployment, coupled with unprecedented workplace efficiency, growing at an annualized rate of 10% a year. that's great for businesses, bad for workers. but the "revenge" of the worker, art, is to do what you and i did: start our own businesses to complete with the industries who won't pay us what we're worth.

the smartest way for a government to enable this is to remove unnecessary impediments to startups, and to invest in their technologies. we did this with microprocessors, we should do it with green energy technology.

but if your motive is to poke at an administration you don't like, you could spend your day hunting around, ferreting out your best example of why you think the above scenario is a bad idea. meanwhile, in my neck of the woods, lancaster, calif, and the antelope valley in which is sits sees itself as becoming the worldwide center of green energy technology, with construction underway to build the largest wind farms and solar fields in the world. probably with the government as a partner in one way or another.

the reason a lot of solar panels are built in china is not only because china has cheap labor, but because china's government is a willing partner in green industry. our government, tho late to the game, finally is too, thankfully.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

peter826

Nov 6, 09 6:43

Post #3 of 54 (363 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm not sure I would count on any manufacturing jobs hanging around, even in the green sector.

On the other hand, if solar-panel prices drop and solar systems become more competitive with electric rates, there will be a huge market for local companies, installers, technicians, etc, to install those panels and maintain them (even if the panels are built overseas). Those are good jobs that can't be outsourced.

Slowman

Nov 6, 09 7:11

Post #4 of 54 (344 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [peter826] [In reply to]	Can't Post

bear in mind there are two types of solar industries: panels you stick on your roof, and the much more robust and immediate version: industrial solar fields (which might be powered by solar collector panels, or might be just mirrors focusing the sun's thermal energy on a pillar of water, making steam, which turns turbines). one good solar farm produces power for about 50,000 homes per square mile. in this case, most of the jobs, and almost all of the profit goes to companies not in china. but that doesn't mean they're U.S. companies. i believe solel, one of the world leaders in industrial solar technology, is an israeli firm.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

ajfranke

Nov 6, 09 7:11

Post #5 of 54 (343 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I happen to have made a lot of money during the 1970's and 1980's boom years in the computer industry. I worked for private companies. We built our own buildings, financed by the private sector. We didn't get free land. We didn't get much, if anything in the way of tax deals. Our investments came overwhelmingly from the private sector, including yours truly who made some obscene profits on many of those investments. Those companies boomed by selling unsubsidized products to unsubsidized buyers who found that they got a productivity return on their investment. We made profits and payed taxes. Your attempt to draw an analogy between solar energy and the computer industry is almost completely faulty.

I do agree with your comment about starting up a business to get ahead in this world. It worked for me, and it worked for you. I doubt you got much in the way of help from the government to get your bicycle company off the ground. You did it the old fashioned way. You had an idea. You raised money somehow to get it off the ground. You priced your product so that you could sell it in the marketplace. You hired people as the products sold. Most importantly, you worked your unsubsidized ass off, paying taxes along the way.

Note that neither you nor I nor pretty much anyone else in America are doing this now. I am waiting for an appropriate market opportunity for my next project. That is looking further and further off by the month, but eventually the tide will turn. Hopefully before I am too old to ride it. It has little to do with the current administration, it has to do with the policies that are destroying our economy. All the prior administrations engaged in these boondoggles too, but at least they recognized them as boondoggles and went through the motions minimally as they deemed prudent. I think Obama actually believes the nonsense, and it sounds like you do too. He, he promised us change, so I guess he delivered in that regard. If we are going to stick taxpayers with middle six figure bills for every job "created or saved," is it too much to ask that those jobs be here rather than China?

If you think this a computer market type investment phase is what is going on in the solar/wind/ethanol/other green boondoggles, you are divorced from reality.
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04

Art Franke

jar1635

Nov 6, 09 7:19

Post #6 of 54 (334 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

that green technologies are the closest current analog to the dotcom boom of the 90s

Is the .com era something we really want to harken back to? To me, it's akin to 20 years from now ruminating about the bursting of the real estate bubble. Yes, a lot of good came out of the .com - and a fair amount of innovation - but so much of that era was just fluff, flash without substance. You also had a huge amount of private sector money fueling that boom. I don't think you will see the same with green technologies - as people have either learned their lessons, seen their capital reserves dry-up, or lost all the equity in their homes.

In any case, I am glad to see our gov get behind green technologies.

burnman

Nov 6, 09 7:57

Post #7 of 54 (316 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I work in the 'green' industry - which is a designation I absolutely hate. I dabble in solid state materials, but my bread and butter is fuels. I'm with you on the disappointment end. There is tons of money available to industry for clean energy technologies, but getting your hands on it is a very peculiar process. While the mission statement was direct access to money for small businesses and innovation, the large energy conglomerates have had an absolute cakewalk in securing multi-billion dollar contracts. I don't fault them, as they have very effective research and development resources to put the money to good use. However, that doesn't help Joe small business owner. A lot of funds are cost-matched 50/50 which pretty much ties the hands of small businesses that operate on low overhead with minimal reserves. If your process needs $2mil to bring a product to market, what are the odds that you have $1mil available to subsidize the effort? It stifles innovation, and allows for large global conglomerates to easily move funds/jobs throughout the world to suit their business needs. Sadly, small business folks are left knocking on the door of big business asking for a piece of the pie that was baked for them.

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"He lives on Sesame Street, dumbass."

jkca1

Nov 6, 09 7:59

Post #8 of 54 (314 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Remember when gas was $4+ a gallon? Remember how important Green was back then? If gas was $4 - 6 a gallon today the govt. would offer all kinds of real incentives to develop solar/green energy on our soil. Since everything is just fine here (sarcasm intended) nothing of substance will happen until we face an emergency of either diminished supply or a spike in the cost of petroleum or both. Then panic will set in and there will be a firedrill.

"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."

chainpin

Nov 6, 09 8:11

Post #9 of 54 (306 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm taking a harsher view of this situation, since it's not just about jobs lost.

The Evergreen story is instructive in that it provides a text-book case of how Liberals destroy wealth in this country via the repeatable and predictable, mis-allocation of scarce capital.

I remember when Deval announced this boondoggle to much fanfare.

It was a key part of his economic platform for creating jobs in the state--a petry dish of what was to come via green job creation.

Now, this company IS going to go bankrupt without additional funding, taking all the taxpayer's money with it.

There is no reason solar panels should be made here in the US, they are, for the most part, commodity products.

This company even in the best of times will never be cost competitive when it comes to wafer production--never!

They make small wafers, they need to be making big, industry standard wafers, to do that they need new facilities--problem is, they don't have any money.

This is a company that has never been cash flow positive in it's history (in MM's).

And this chart in case you were wondering how severe this liquidity crises is I present this chart:

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

ajfranke

Nov 6, 09 8:21

Post #10 of 54 (297 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

But chainpin, Dan assures me that this whole process is just like the microprocessor era.

If you were to take that first chart, and flip it upside down, it would look a lot like the sales and profits graphs from my days at Sun Microsystems, among other companies. So I guess he has a point, in a mirror image sort of way. We had increasing profits, they produce increasing losses.

But at least Al Gore makes his first billion. He gets stock in return for his star power. He then gets billion dollar subsidies into the company making his stock valuable. It works for the company. It works for the stockholders including Gore. It works for the people who get the subsidized products. It works for everyone, except the taxpayers naturally.

They are just the little people. They don't count.
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04

Art Franke

jackmott

Nov 6, 09 8:24

Post #11 of 54 (293 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Because we are unwilling to work for as little as the chinese?

In Reply To:

Why do you suppose that is?

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burnman

Nov 6, 09 8:31

Post #12 of 54 (289 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Because we are unwilling to work for as little as the chinese?

In Reply To:

Why do you suppose that is?

Exactly. Who, in their right mind, would get up and go to work every day to receive a lower income than those that stay home and live off of public assistance!? You can talk about pride, and earning an honest living, but at the end of the day the leeches living off of the system are completely justified in doing so.

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"He lives on Sesame Street, dumbass."

MJuric

Nov 6, 09 8:42

Post #13 of 54 (279 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

it's clear to me, art, that green technologies are the closest current analog to the dotcom boom of the 90s.

One MASSIVE difference. The .Dot come bubble required ZERO manufacturing. That bubble was almost entirely driven by ideas and speculation on profits from those ideas. "Green energy" needs manufacturing and the US CAN'T COMPETE.

start our own businesses to complete with the industries who won't pay us what we're worth.

Start your own business in "Green energy" today and you'd have to send all of your manufacturing to China or India to compete. In fact in many cases, one was recently posted here, you'd simply be a middle man buying products designed and built in China and installing those products here.

The net result might be you and a few close people near you making some money, but very little overall gain in jobs for the US economy. You might employ a few riggers and electricians for local assembly and installation, of course that may be jobed out to China as well.

the smartest way for a government to enable this is to remove unnecessary impediments to startups, and to invest in their technologies. we did this with microprocessors, we should do it with green energy technology.

All though I agree with your premise once again a bad comparison. Micro processors are relatively low on the "Manufacturing" scale. The physical low end "Labor" to manufacture a CPU is relatively low in comparison to a turbine or solar panel.

Intel can afford to have "High level" labor and it's associated cost because the cost of labor is relatively low portion of the product in comparison to solar panels and turbines.

I would agree with removing unnecessary impediments as Ajfranke suggested, like minimum wage laws, unduly burdensome OSHA adn EPA laws etc etc. That would go a long way to lowering our labor costs which would go ways to make us competitive with foreign markets.

the reason a lot of solar panels are built in china is not only because china has cheap labor, but because china's government is a willing partner in green industry. our government, tho late to the game, finally is too, thankfully.

What ever your belief the end result is that the reason we are buying turbines and solar panels from China for installation in the US is because they can make them cheaper. I'll concede this may be because the Chinese government "Subsidizes" green technology...but so are we and we're still buying their product.

Should we subsidize more? And if so where do we stop? At what point does it becomes ridiculous and the subsidization costs FAR more than sticking with what we have?

All things equal the fact that China has A) lower overhead I.E. EPA, Insurance, OSHA, Minimum wage etc and B) lower labor costs will mean China/India will produce product cheaper than the US.

The only way to over come that is by being more productive and the only way to do that is by A) working harder longer which won't happen because that effectively lowers wages and B) technology.

We've completely lost the technology edge because China/Asia/India now produces everything we need to hold that edge, machine tools, CNC equipment, Robotics etc etc. So we have to buy that from them as well, which means they know the technology was well, even better, than we do.

The only way "Subsidizing" green technology makes any sense is if the return on the actual energy produced over time is greater than cost sent to China to manufacture the systems and that return is better than what would have been gained from other sources of energy.

Of course the "Variable" of the "Green house" effect is something that pretty much no one can put into hard numbers. That of course can sway the number either way "Pro" or "Con". If you believe that GHG's will end the world as we know it in 50 years than the cost and return is irrelevant. If you believe that GHG's have little or no effect then introducing that as a factor in cost is irrelevant and the investment must stand on it's own.

Of course we're only supposed to discuss sports :-)

~Matt

jackmott

Nov 6, 09 8:42

Post #14 of 54 (277 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [chainpin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

That really doesn't seem to be a specifically liberal feature of our government anymore

In Reply To:

The Evergreen story is instructive in that it provides a text-book case of how Liberals destroy wealth in this country via the repeatable and predictable, mis-allocation of scarce capital.

MJuric

Nov 6, 09 8:48

Post #15 of 54 (272 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [burnman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Who, in their right mind, would get up and go to work every day to receive a lower income than those that stay home and live off of public assistance!?

We'll never know until we no longer have a minimum wage.

You can talk about pride, and earning an honest living, but at the end of the day the leeches living off of the system are completely justified in doing so.

"Justified"? I'm not sure I would use the word justified. I can see why a person would do it, but saying one is "Justified" for taking public assistance when they could get a job and live at a slightly lower lifestyle is similar to saying that a person robbing a bank is "Justified" in doing so to maintain their lifestyle.

Public assistance was never meant to be a "Minimum lifestyle blanket" it was meant to help those that CAN'T help themselves. IMO if you CAN help yourself and you CHOOSE to not do so you may as well be robbing a bank.

~Matt

MJuric

Nov 6, 09 8:52

Post #16 of 54 (271 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [peter826] [In reply to]	Can't Post

On the other hand, if solar-panel prices drop and solar systems become more competitive with electric rates, there will be a huge market for local companies, installers, technicians, etc, to install those panels and maintain them (even if the panels are built overseas). Those are good jobs that can't be outsourced.

I would agree for small "Home installations" this would be true. But for major "Wind farm"/solar panel installations it would not surprise me at all to see the company that manufactured the turbines or panels to also install them. I don't know about the "Green technology" sector but in automotive that is almost always the case. If you design and build a line you install it at the plant as part of the job, even if that plant is in China.

~Matt

Slowman

Nov 6, 09 8:58

Post #17 of 54 (270 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Your attempt to draw an analogy between solar energy and the computer industry is almost completely faulty."

as you know, the semiconductor industry in the U.S. was in large part salvaged after intel, TI, motorola, et al, lost their global supremacy, and NEC became the world's leading semiconductor manufacturer. the semiconductor research corporation is a public-provite research collaboration that is ongoing and is i think something like a quarter century old. it's generally credited in large part for the turnaround that allowed U.S. semiconductor makers to reassert themselves as global leaders.

of the top of my head, we do have one such public-private initiative in the green energy industry, the california fuel cell initiative. it doesn't all have to be about solar, tho i don't see why public-private research labs to find better solar cell, battery, fuel cell, wind turbine, ocean turbine, geothermal efficiencies is a bad idea.

and i don't see why the analogy is almost complete faulty. maybe you can explain why this is.

"If you think this a computer market type investment phase is what is going on in the solar/wind/ethanol/other green boondoggles, you are divorced from reality"

why? because you say so? or, is there some other reason?

not only are these industries in many ways parallel to the computer industry, they are often one and the same. i believe your state is the "headquarters" of smartgrid technology, no? as far as i can tell, this is as much a computer driven technology as it is a large infrastructure project. cisco stands to benefit as much as big infrastructure construction companies from smartgrid.

as to the government's role, it's fourfold.

first, the simple cost of business needs to be low. taxes on those earning less than the low six figures should be low; corporate taxes should be low; enforcement on small business that gets behind on payroll tax deposits should be swift, but penalties should be low; and the other business burdens should be low (health care, etc.). small business growth, entrepreneurial activity, will be the hallmark of GDP growth over the next half-decade, so, we need to grease the skids for this.

second, the business infrastructure should be first rate, and that means above all an educated workforce, and access to high-skilled immigrant "knowledge workers" when the U.S. can't produce them quickly enough. this means that education becomes a national security issue, not just a social equality and mobility issue.

third, using taxes/grants to punish/reward strategically important behavior.

fourth, public-private research corporations.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

MJuric

Nov 6, 09 9:03

Post #18 of 54 (263 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Note that neither you nor I nor pretty much anyone else in America are doing this now.

The few of us that are, are on a daily basis finding more and more regulation to kick us in the nuts on a daily basis. Whether that is forcing us to pay more taxes, insurance costs or 5 paid sick days for flu like symptoms.

I'm convinced if you found the "Perfect product" you could still make it in this country, but you're not going to "Work your way" into making any money these days particularly in anything that has to do with manufacturing. WAY to many marks against before you even put the key in the door on the first day.

If you think this a computer market type investment phase is what is going on in the solar/wind/ethanol/other green boondoggles, you are divorced from reality.

100% agree. Intel, AMD, Microsoft, Sun, Apple etc etc all COMPLETELY different animals than "Green". On top of that they were never really subsidized to "Get off the ground" outside of maybe a couple indirectly related R & D projects.

Not until these companies were turning a profit did government stand up and offer "Breaks" to attract plants and thus jobs.

On top of that "Green energy" is far more manufacturing dependent than is the "Tech" industries. Labor, low end labor specifically, is a far larger portion of the cost of a wind turbine than a CPU which is largely done roboticly.

~Matt

burnman

Nov 6, 09 9:04

Post #19 of 54 (261 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [MJuric] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Take the second part as tongue-in-cheek. Justified is in their minds, not in mine. I think it's deplorable to be of sufficient working condition and spend your days as a fat ass on the couch, sucking up taxpayer dollars while you await your next illegitimate funding opportunity. There are real people out there with real problems and that is the intent of public assistance (as you've noted). Frankly, I wish the unscrupulous ones were out robbing banks. Then, we would have some consolation in the fact that they may possibly be gunned down while committing their next crime. I'd call that a tax credit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He lives on Sesame Street, dumbass."

chainpin

Nov 6, 09 9:09

Post #20 of 54 (256 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is a scale business, where even the large players make razor thin margins.

Intel's operating margins are in the 30% range roughly, so I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with slowman.

Moreover, looking back through history I see absolutely no similarities between the two industries:

Evergreen enjoys dis-economies of scale relative to competitors, which leads to robust, and consistent losses, despite growing sales--a rare feat indeed!

Some in the analyst community are optimistic that the company will survive because of the support of "local gov't", which is to say, you and me.

I for one would like my money back.

"Evergreen currently has a product cost disadvantage vs. many of its peers,

primarily due to its limited production scale and location in a high-cost manf region

in Massachusetts. However, the company is currently taking action to shift its

manufacturing to China in order to alleviate this disadvantage relative to competitors

that already produce solar PV modules in Asia in low-cost regions. We believe the

risk associated with this transition is low given how common this type of activity has

become over the past 20 years and also due to the financial support the local gov�t

has provided to the company."

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

dave_w

Nov 6, 09 9:21

Post #21 of 54 (245 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I disagree with your insinuation that protecting the environment is not a valid goal as part of production, and with Dan's comment that seems to indicate he believes China is doing so responsibly. (unless he was only referring to their willingness and ability to spool up production of "green" stuff).
Further, I don't yearn for "success" in the way that you and Dan identify it. There should be a place in an economy for those of us with less ambition, interest, or tools to do a start-up. I'm not interested in the big money or fame that you and Dan have achieved ;) ...being the most loved LR poster is all the affirmation I need.

jackmott

Nov 6, 09 9:23

Post #22 of 54 (239 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [dave_w] [In reply to]	Can't Post

its a valid goal, but if you want any production to happen "in house" you will have to hold any imported goods to the same standard.

In Reply To:

I disagree with your insinuation that protecting the environment is not a valid goal as part of production, .

chainpin

Nov 6, 09 9:27

Post #23 of 54 (238 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

That really doesn't seem to be a specifically liberal feature of our government anymore

In Reply To:

The Evergreen story is instructive in that it provides a text-book case of how Liberals destroy wealth in this country via the repeatable and predictable, mis-allocation of scarce capital.

Mine was an intentionally loaded statement and I concur with you observation--it just so happens that MA is the most liberal state in the country, and the green jobs movement is a Leftist construct.

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

dave_w

Nov 6, 09 9:33

Post #24 of 54 (228 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

its a valid goal, but if you want any production to happen "in house" you will have to hold any imported goods to the same standard.

In Reply To:

I disagree with your insinuation that protecting the environment is not a valid goal as part of production, .

agreed, but my sense is it will not happen because there is too much corporate money paid to pols to allow it. As with most things govt, we will go an ineffective and much more expensive route; in this case "cap and trade", and feel warm and fuzzy with the claim that a global body will ensure standards.

MJuric

Nov 6, 09 9:44

Post #25 of 54 (220 views)

Re: Really glad those green jobs are being created. [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

as you know, the semiconductor industry in the U.S. was in large part salvaged after intel, TI, motorola, et al, lost their global supremacy, and NEC became the world's leading semiconductor manufacturer. the semiconductor research corporation is a public-provite research collaboration that is ongoing and is i think something like a quarter century old. it's generally credited in large part for the turnaround that allowed U.S. semiconductor makers to reassert themselves as global leaders.

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of history. Intel became highly successful only after moving into CPU's rather than memory chips. In fact to date the largest memory manufacturers are still located outside the US to my knowledge.

I'm not sure anyone had "Global supremacy" on CPU's or semiconductors as a whole since it was still very much a developing industry and standards, systems etc were simply being developed.

NEC was developing and selling PC based products at the same time Intel was.

From Wiki.

While Intel created the first microprocessor (Intel 4004) in 1971 and one of the first microcomputers in 1972,[13][14] by the early 1980s its business was dominated by dynamic random access memory chips. However, increased competition from Japanese semiconductor manufacturers had, by 1983, dramatically reduced the profitability of this market, and the sudden success of the IBM personal computer convinced then-CEO Grove to shift the company's focus to microprocessors, and to change fundamental aspects of that business model.
By the end of the 1980s this decision had proven successful. Buoyed by its fortuitous position as microprocessor supplier to IBM and its competitors within the rapidly growing personal computer market, Intel embarked on a 10-year period of unprecedented growth as the primary (and most profitable) hardware supplier to the PC industry. By the end of the 1990s, its line of Pentium processors had become a household name.
AMD, the worlds second largest CPU manufacturer was actually a vendor to Intel and kind of a spin off company in a sense.
Considering the SRC is an INTERNATIONAL consortium, I don't see how they get the credit for turning around the US semiconductor industry.

Over the past 26 years, members of SRC programs have invested $1.1 billion in cutting-edge semiconductor research supporting over 7000 students and 1598 faculty members at 237 universities worldwide (statistics that are consistently on the rise)

That would come out to around 42 million dollars a year.

Where did that money come from?

Semiconductor Research Corporation was the chip industry's first research consortium. A non-profit founded in 1982 and based in North Carolina, USA, SRC networks with more than 100 universities globally. The consortium manages a broad program of basic and applied university research in semiconductors on behalf of its members.

So in essence these agency is PRIVATELY, not governmentally funded.

To make the idea of the SRC even less significant Intel spent 5 BILLION in R & D in 2006 alone, almost 5 TIMES what the SRC has spent over it's entire history. Also it would appear that NEC and and any other company can join this consortium as Tokyo Electron is part of it.

Considering the 8086 came out in 1978 a full 4 years before the founding of the SRC and the 286 was created in 1982 the same year the SRC was founded I find it a bit hard to swallow that the SRC had anything to do with any of those chips, all of which clearly made INTEL a major player in the CPU arena and that CEO business decisions rather than SRC activity is what boosted Intel to the leader of it's field.

~Matt

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