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Slowtwitch Forums
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Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan
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Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 14:51
Post #1 of 60 (794 views)
Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan
Can't Post
WTF is up with his race to the center: faith based initiatives, immunity to telecom companies, hardening his stance on iran, and now this. If he pulls his head out of his fiscal ass and devises a decent tax/spending policy he could become a good candidate.
http://www.politico.com/...ries/0708/11517.html
Mr. Tibbs
Jul 3, 08 15:01
Post #2 of 60 (790 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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"WTF is up with his race to the center:"
It's called winning. People don't vote on results or actual plans they vote on sound bites and does the candidate feel the voters pain. All you Obama junkies are fooling yourself if you think your voting for change.
spot
Jul 3, 08 15:05
Post #3 of 60 (786 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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Too funny. Pretty smart on Obama's part on the one hand, yet, its pretty obvious he is not a "different kind of politician", as he so often claims. He said whatever it took to rally the democratic base to his cause to win the primary, and is now trying to get to the center as fast as he can to appeal to enough folks to win the general election. Which begs the question: What does he actually believe? And what will he actually do? And to try and be as fair as possible, I think the same charge could be leveled at McCain, who started at the center, swung hard right to win the nomination, and will now do the same thing in the opposite direction as Obama.
Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 15:05
Post #4 of 60 (786 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Mr. Tibbs]
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Polls like this will also energize him to take more centrist positions:
A recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll found that 58 percent of voters see Obama as a liberal, while only 24 percent view him as a moderate. The same poll also found that voters perceive Obama to be more liberal than they are themselves.
"You want change, well yes, I can change in order to win..."
PeckerHead
Jul 3, 08 15:08
Post #5 of 60 (782 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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Fun subject line, but I don't see that he has changed anything about his plan. He just said he is open to changing it depending on what he hears from the commanders on the ground.
(This post was
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Mr. Tibbs
Jul 3, 08 15:10
Post #6 of 60 (778 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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I just can't wait for the 2012 elections where President Obama's zombies will be standing on their heads trying to twist everything to prove he was a different kind of President when in fact all the evidence will show he is no different then anyone else. Oh the cult of personalty how it beats logic every time.
Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 15:13
Post #7 of 60 (773 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [PeckerHead]
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Barry backed off his
firm
promise to withdraw combat forces from Iraq immediately and instead said he could “refine” his plan after his trip to Baghdad later this month. He's going soft, however I understand that he had to be firm on withdrawal during the primary.
That's the kind of change we can believe in ... as we have seen it before. Kind of like groundhog day.
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by Al P Duez on Jul 3, 08 15:18)
PeckerHead
Jul 3, 08 15:18
Post #8 of 60 (762 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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Firm promises by politicians, lol. Still, the plan hasn't changed so your subject line is misleading.
Somehow I don't think he'll morph into John McCain after he hears what the commanders on the ground have to say. :)
Mr. Tibbs
Jul 3, 08 15:20
Post #9 of 60 (758 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [PeckerHead]
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The plan has changed. It went from we are getting out period to lets wait and see.
Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 15:25
Post #10 of 60 (749 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [PeckerHead]
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Yeah but Barry's not your typical pol right? What part of "firm" don't you understand? Does firm mean, yeah but let me hear what others have to say? It's all good, he is now taking the right tact.
(This post was
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Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 15:32
Post #11 of 60 (740 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [PeckerHead]
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Then (still on website):
"Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq
within 16 months
.”
Now: a
top Obama adviser had said that the senator is not “wedded” to a specific timeline.
Again, Change you can believe in because it is right in front of you.
PeckerHead
Jul 3, 08 15:38
Post #12 of 60 (735 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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If someone actually thought that he planned to pull the troops out without consulting commanders on the ground, then I think they deserve to be disappointed. It still isn't a change in plan - yet.
ajfranke
Jul 3, 08 15:49
Post #13 of 60 (724 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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Gee, who could have predicted this?
Anyone who thinks Obama is going to run on a lose the Iraq War Now platform, vote for me, is just kidding themselves. Demanding Bush lose on his watch is entirely different than signing up to lose on one's own watch.
That is the beautiful thing with never having actually done anything. You can rewrite your entire platform and it isn't even really much of a change.
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
last tri in 83
Jul 3, 08 15:52
Post #14 of 60 (719 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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Clinton 101, campaign center, govern left.
_____________________________________________
Atilla the Hun could rise from the dead and endorse Obama and it wouldn't faze me in the least.
--MattinSF
Clutch Cargo
Jul 3, 08 15:55
Post #15 of 60 (714 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [last tri in 83]
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In Reply To
Clinton 101, campaign center, govern left.
You are correct sir!
ajfranke
Jul 3, 08 15:55
Post #16 of 60 (714 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [last tri in 83]
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This is so predictable. Here I am from just a couple of days ago.
We should all expect that Obama will be doing a reevaluation soon of his Iraq policy as he has done with campaign funding, NAFTA, FISA and other issues. With the nomination locked up, he can now take the MattinSFs for granted. They aren't going anywhere.
Editted to add:
From a week ago:
The foundation for a reversal on Iraq is being laid already.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
(This post was
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Slowman
Jul 3, 08 16:05
Post #17 of 60 (699 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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he said nothing that he has not consistently said, repeatedly said, boringly said, over, and over, and over again, for the better part of a year, every time he's been asked: we need to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in. his posture was there for anybody to see, if anyone wanted to see it.
to the republican attack machine, here's what "careful getting out" meant: obama wants to surrender and pull out immediately!
finally the republicans are *listening* to what he's been saying all along, and it's: aha! he's flip-flopping! i knew this day would come.
in truth, it is the right wing attackers who've flip-flopped. they've decided his consistent refrain *means* something else now than it mean 9 months ago. they've flip-flopped in their interpretation. unfortunately, the junior high school educated television political media idiots will buy it, hook, line and sinker.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Mr. Tibbs
Jul 3, 08 16:09
Post #18 of 60 (695 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Slowman]
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In truth he has no real plan. In truth he leaves himself safe to flip flop all night. In truth he has in no way proven he is nothing more then a typical politician. In truth there is no where for the truth to stick.
Al P Duez
Jul 3, 08 16:12
Post #19 of 60 (692 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Slowman]
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Dan, I watched every debate and listened very carefully and he was unequivocal on the immediate pull out (one or two brigades per month) scenario as he had to match plans with Hillary. There was no let's see. It was immediate. Just like his website still mentions. If you heard something else then you must have a direct line that the rest of us were not privy to. He is becoming expediently centrist, no surprise and I must say, a good thing.
(This post was
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by Al P Duez on Jul 3, 08 16:21)
last tri in 83
Jul 3, 08 16:15
Post #20 of 60 (688 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Clutch Cargo]
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I worked harder than I've ever worked and I just couldn't find that middle class tax cut I promised......
_____________________________________________
Atilla the Hun could rise from the dead and endorse Obama and it wouldn't faze me in the least.
--MattinSF
parkito
Jul 3, 08 16:22
Post #21 of 60 (683 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Slowman]
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Sounds like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth to me:
He said that when he talked earlier about refining his policy after talking with commanders in Iraq, he was referring not to his 16-month timeline,
but to how many troops may need to remain in Iraq to train the local army and police and what troop presence might be needed
"`to be sure al-Qaida doesn't re-establish a foothold there."
"I will bring our troops out at a pace of one two brigades a month"
which would mean the United States would be totally out of Iraq in 16 months
. "That is what I intend to do as president of the United States."
But later in the session, he said
it is possible the 16-month timeline could slip
if the pace of withdrawal needs to be slowed some months to ensure troop safety. "I have always said ... I would always reserve the right to do what's best," Obama said.
During his presidential campaign, Obama has gone from the hard-edged, vocal opposition to Iraq that defined his early candidacy
to more nuanced rhetoric
that calls for the phased-out drawdown of all combat brigades that, at a rate of one or two a month, could take 16 months. He has said that
if al-Qaida builds bases in Iraq, he would keep troops either in the country or the region to carry out "targeted strikes
."
(AP)
Yes, I campaigned during the primary that we would be out in 16 months. But, now, I am giving you the fine print, and lo and behold, it really isn't too much different than McCain, or Hillary for that matter. Most U.S. military will be out in more or less than 16 months, but some, or maybe even a lot, are going to be staying for a long time.
To blunt the damage, he is also pointing the finger at McCain's camp saying that they are distorting his position. Well, if he'd only pick one and stick to it.
Poets, priests and politicians ...
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
Mr. Tibbs
Jul 3, 08 16:28
Post #22 of 60 (680 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [parkito]
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My big question is how is he going to do it? Pulling out in 16 months means either leaving a huge amount of equipment and supplies behind or you have a hell of a fight on the way out.
spot
Jul 3, 08 16:38
Post #23 of 60 (674 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Slowman]
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This is where I am going to seriously disagree with you. Obama repeatedly said, and even has in his website a timetable for withdrawal. Here is what is
still
on his website as his official stance on Iraq:
Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
The notion that Obama has not signed up to a timeline no matter what is not in dispute. Please explain to me what he means by all combat brigades out in 16 months if you doubt he has a timetable. And frankly, I find your last sentence insulting.
Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
Tri N OC
Jul 3, 08 16:50
Post #24 of 60 (663 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Slowman]
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There are good days and bad days in a campaign. This is not a good day for Obama.
Blaming the "republican attack machine" for Obama's change in position is a good bone to throw to the hard left that was drooling about his earlier promise to get out as soon as he was elected. It does not change the fact that Obama is moderating his position, but it does help shore up the left.
Slowman
Jul 3, 08 17:06
Post #25 of 60 (655 views)
Re: Obama Rewrites Iraq Plan [Al P Duez]
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"
he was unequivocal on the immediate pull out (one or two brigades per month) scenario"
the immediate pull out. pull out immediately. surrender unconditionally. cut and run. leave iraq undefended and in the hands of the extremists. civil war. and so forth.
is this it? is this unequivocal "immediate pull out?" of course not, altho that's what it means to the hard right smear machine.
we have, what, 30 brigades in theater right now? obama's posture is to pull out gradually, while mccain's posture is to stay there in full force for some years, ending with a permanent peacetime military presence. nothing's changed.
"careful getting out" means letting the facts on the ground impinge on timeline of withdrawal. were that not the case, he would not have repeated the "careful getting out" phrase ad nauseum, every time asked. all any interviewer had to do was ask what that phrase meant, and the answer would've been: we're pulling out, but we'll be elastic, we won't be rigid on bringing out exactly 7,000 troops a month, every month.
obama is not LBJ. he's not going to keep 20 or 30 brigades in that theater. he's not going to try for some amorphous claim of victory, as LBJ did and mccain has as part of his platform. obama's a pragmatic campaigner, he'll be a pragmatic commander in chief. nothing he said over the past 24 hours dismisses his view that a posture of withdrawal will spur iraq toward self governance. maybe that's a bad idea. i don't know. maybe mccain's right, that we need to be there in relative full force for 5 or 10 years. but careful withdrawal, immediately commenced, incrementally and carefully executed, has always been obama's idea, right or wrong, and i don't see how yesterday's comments change that.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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