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Lies your Vice President told you
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MattinSF
Feb 14, 06 13:19
Post #1 of 109 (800 views)
Lies your Vice President told you
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Don't these buffoons know anything? its not the crime that gets you in trouble in Washington DC, its the coverup.
1. First Cheney's spin machine hushes this thing up for a full day in order to concoct their story and then they authorize the ranch owner to call some podunk local reporter to break the news. HELLLOOOOOO the VP shot a guy...this is kinda important.
2. Second, they tell us it was the victim's fault. He broke protocol. He left the line and came back without announcing himself. There is no such protocol. The only person who broke the rules was the VP. He shot a person instead of a bird, thats a pretty big breach of protocol.
3. Third, they tell us the guy was 30 yards away when he was hit. BULLSHIT. Cheney was using a 28 guage and birdshot. There's no way that this guy has birdshot in the heart if that story is true. At that range he gets at best bad sting at worst a peppering with minor flesh wounds. There's no way the shot penetrates his clothing, his chest wall and his heart...not at that range with that gun and shot.
4. Fourth, they tell us the guy is doing just fine and he's sitting up in bed joking with nurses and that his wounds were limited to his face arm and chest. Then it emerges that hes actually listed as critical and is in intensive care. Then it emerges that he has been shot in the HEART!....then the guy has a freakin heart attack.
What else will emerge before the truth finally emerges??
I'm betting those guys were pounding beers all day after Bloody Marys for breakfast.
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
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stl_triness
Feb 14, 06 13:41
Post #2 of 109 (770 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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TripleThreat
Feb 14, 06 13:50
Post #3 of 109 (758 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [stl_triness]
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Does Richard Simmons' shirt really say "Go To Health"? wow. Double-gay.
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Is it REALLY that big of a deal that the VP had a hunting accident? Certainly it's a mistake, but man, folks are making it out to be cold-blooded murder.
I know two things about bird hunting now. [1] Don't go with Dick Cheney, [2] Don't go with Bob Knight.
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-- At 211 degrees water is hot. At 212 degrees water boils. Boiling water produces steam. You can power a locomotive with steam. Will you supply the extra degree that makes all the difference? ---
last tri in 83
Feb 14, 06 14:16
Post #4 of 109 (730 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [TripleThreat]
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Don't fish with Jimmy Carter. Remember the berzerk swamp rabbit incident?
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Conservative in exile.
spot
Feb 14, 06 15:58
Post #5 of 109 (689 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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1. I don't think this is important in the least. It was a hunting accident...they happen all the time. Why do you even care?
2. Have you ever hunted before? People need to make sure that the others in the party know where they are at all times.
3. I've seen people seriously hurt from frickin' air rifles with .177 pellets from almost that far. No doubt in my mind he could have been that far away.
4. As NPR reported (at ridiculous length, I might add), he was NOT shot in the heart. A pellet, lodged in his chest, MIGRATED near his heart. The irritation around the pellet, caused an asymptomatic heart attack...the dude didn't even know it was happening.
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
parkito
Feb 14, 06 16:32
Post #6 of 109 (656 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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Don't these buffoons know anything? its not the crime that gets you in trouble in Washington DC, its the coverup.
1. First Cheney's spin machine hushes this thing up for a full day in order to concoct their story and then they authorize the ranch owner to call some podunk local reporter to break the news. HELLLOOOOOO the VP shot a guy...this is kinda important.
HELLLOOOOOO the VP shot a guy...this is kinda important.
No, it is not. It is called an accident. It is something (accidents) that happens daily, to everyone. The act of electing typical human beings to office does convey some sort of immunity from accidents, basically because there is no immunity for being human. Using inflammatory rhetoric:
"its not the crime that gets you in trouble in Washington DC"
, doesn't do much for your argument but muddle up the debate and weakens the rest of your facts, err.. statements, err.. heart felt beliefs.
The VP accidently tagging a friend while hunting does not affect U.S. productivity. It does not affect Foreign relations. It does not alter the situation in the Mid East or Iraq. It has most likely little or no effect on global warming. (I won't be more definitive as I don't really want to open that can of worms.) It will make life easier for comics and joke writers for the next several weeks.
I have friends that hunt. I had friend that hunted jackrabbits in Utah that I was invited to join. I could see no logical reason to put myself at that level of increased risk just to exercise some rabbits (their description). If I had an undying love for hunting, maybe. I get nervous in the fall on some of my running routes that border on huntable lands.
The minute that load left the muzzle, Cheney was going to get the ribbing of his life and nothing in this world would or could change that. Letting the ranch owner report the incident to the local press when she was ready and the pellet recipient safely away from the media was a reasonable thing in my mind. Who is pissed the most are the reporters on the White House beat because they got scooped by a little podunk newspaper in some little podunk town in BFE Texas (and I say that with love as I was born in Corpus Christi, the podunk town the pellet recipient ended up at.) They will grind away on the VP for quite a while until they have vented enough.
If you are buying into everything the media is blowing this up to then you really need to work on your discriminatory skills. If you are not careful, you are going to find yourself owning a nice piece of beach front property just south of New Orleans.
I'm betting those guys were pounding beers all day after Bloody Marys for breakfast.
For the record, doesn't that argue against your heart felt belief in the facts as you see them as described in your point #2? There is a real lack of consistency of thought there.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
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Tyrius
Feb 14, 06 16:42
Post #7 of 109 (643 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [spot]
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Now, now, let's not interupt the raving partisan lunatics with the actual facts. These types of things really don't concern them and only serve to get in the way of their raving.
A) In a hunting party everyone should do everything they can to ensure everyone else is aware of them at all times, however final responsibility lies with the one pulling the trigger
B) Wittington was NOT shot in the heart! Pellets in his chest moved through his chest until they were resting against his heart causing the irritation that led to the heart attack.
C) 30 yards = 90 feet, that's not very far away shotgun pellets will most definately pierce the skin. You can look here to see the info on how fast the shot is still travelling when 30 yards away.
http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/...hotgun%20ballistics'
peter826
Feb 14, 06 17:00
Post #8 of 109 (625 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Tyrius]
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Exactly, and the liberal media has made this into a way worse situation than it is. The media is only telling you all the bad stuff about Cheney shooting the lawyer. There is a lot of good stuff about it too, but the damn liberal media isn't telling you all that.
Tyrius
Feb 14, 06 17:07
Post #9 of 109 (617 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [peter826]
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Exactly, and the liberal media has made this into a way worse situation than it is.
Who was talking about the "liberal media"?
peter826
Feb 14, 06 17:11
Post #10 of 109 (612 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Tyrius]
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Apparently, I was!
Monk
Feb 14, 06 17:17
Post #11 of 109 (606 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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Are lawyers good eating?
last tri in 83
Feb 14, 06 17:24
Post #12 of 109 (600 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Monk]
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taste like chicken
_____________________________________________
Conservative in exile.
MattinSF
Feb 14, 06 17:34
Post #13 of 109 (591 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Monk]
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Are lawyers good eating?
Have you ever had shark?
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HOPE is a plan that worked. CHANGE is a plan that worked. BELIEVE is a plan that worked.
stl_triness
Feb 14, 06 17:47
Post #14 of 109 (582 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Monk]
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More importantly who knew that a lawyer tag is only $7 in Texas?
Reparto Corse
Feb 14, 06 17:56
Post #15 of 109 (578 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [peter826]
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Damn liberal media…leave it to them to not tell us all the good stuff about this Vice Presidential blunder. I'm going to Fox now to get the real scoop on this story.
ike
Feb 14, 06 18:44
Post #16 of 109 (562 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [parkito]
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Yeah, it's an accident, but a fairly big one. You're supposed to be careful when handling firearms, especially around other people. No one's saying Cheney shot the guy on purpose. But, there is plenty of ground for questioning Cheney's carefulness and judgment in a dangerous situation. The facts ought to be out there for people to draw their own conclusions. His character and especially his character regarding the use of force is an important issue. He's rather secretive. This is a peek into what he is really like.
trifolk
Feb 14, 06 21:27
Post #17 of 109 (522 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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You are falling for the biggest lie of all. The guy died right after being shot. The W folks have sprung into action and are covering it up. Next they'll say he's recovering, then a slip after returning home will "kill him".
The ranch owner will disappear within the year.
Goose
Feb 14, 06 22:16
Post #18 of 109 (515 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [trifolk]
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I hope Dubya uses "Weekend at Bernies" as the blueprint for how to skillfully execute this plan.
NJSteve
Feb 15, 06 5:16
Post #19 of 109 (481 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [MattinSF]
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We wouldn't know half the story if the internet wasn't invented by another Vice President. (yes, it is an easy and cheap shot - I'm not proud of myself).
trio_jeepy
Feb 15, 06 6:03
Post #20 of 109 (466 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [NJSteve]
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We wouldn't know half the story if the internet wasn't invented by another Vice President. (yes, it is an easy and cheap shot - I'm not proud of myself).
Except for the fact that it's not true.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
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"Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here." - Alvy Singer, "Annie Hall"
Casey
Feb 15, 06 6:50
Post #21 of 109 (447 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [parkito]
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No, it is not. It is called an accident.
An accident would be tripping and the gun going off. Shooting someone in the face is not an accident, it is careless use of a firearm, which makes it a big story.
It is something (accidents) that happens daily, to everyone.
It is actually quite rare to be shot while hunting and every time it has happened, it is the shooter at fault, they are the ones pulling the trigger. You can spin the fact that he should have announced himself all you want but Cheney shot him. Maybe if he had actually trained how to use a gun instead of getting those 5 deferments, this could have been avoided.
Cheney has done a great job of attacking others for years, now it's his turn.
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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
stl_triness
Feb 15, 06 6:59
Post #22 of 109 (442 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Casey]
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One can really go 'round and round on the boards.
Ok, I actually thing tripping and firing is much less of an accident than what happened. If I am walking and not aiming at anything, my gun is going to be safed and my finger is not going to be in the trigger guard. Or rather, if I am walking with a gun set to fire with my finger on the trigger and I fall and fire the weapon, that is not an accident but a result of my negligence.
I would also wager that one gets more firearm training growing up in Wyoming (especially in the '50s and '60s or whenever he grew up) than in the military.
parkito
Feb 15, 06 7:15
Post #23 of 109 (430 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Casey]
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No, it is not. It is called an accident.
An accident would be tripping and the gun going off. Shooting someone in the face is not an accident, it is careless use of a firearm, which makes it a big story.
If it is not preplanned, intentional, or spur of the moment decision to go ahead and shoot someone, then it is an accident. How you want to characterize the incident is up to you to call it as you see it in your inifinte wisdom. However, this "carelessness" resulted in some 1000 incidents in 1998:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/...en/accidentstats.htm
of which 166 were fatal. Ergo, why I won't ever go hunting with my friends.
It is something (accidents) that happens daily, to everyone.
It is actually quite rare to be shot while hunting and every time it has happened, it is the shooter at fault, they are the ones pulling the trigger. You can spin the fact that he should have announced himself all you want but Cheney shot him. Maybe if he had actually trained how to use a gun instead of getting those 5 deferments, this could have been avoided.
1000 incidents per year, or more as who knows if all incidents are reported doesn't seem all that rare to me. Furthermore, if you google hunting accident statistics, you will find case reports whch indicate that both parties had major responsibities. Now, as far as the self-inflicted cases, I'll concede those would most likely be the shooters fault.
Cheney has done a great job of attacking others for years, now it's his turn.
Why so bitter? Get a hobby, or a life, or something.
Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (
James Bryant Conant
)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (
Doug Stern
)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (
William Shakespeare
)
Casey
Feb 15, 06 7:28
Post #24 of 109 (411 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [parkito]
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Get a hobby, or a life, or something.
My hobby of trying to stop the administration groupies from spinning every bit of news keeps me busy. Just once it would be nice to hear someone say they are not perfect in every way.
Everyone can dream.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Mike Lamb
Feb 15, 06 7:32
Post #25 of 109 (408 views)
Re: Lies your Vice President told you [Casey]
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I don't think it's that big of a story, per se. I think poor PR work as made it a bigger story.
First, get the story out immediately. The 24 hour delay leaves them open for second guessing.
Second, take full responsibility. I'm sorry, but unless the guy dove in front of the muzzle, the guy pulling the trigger is ultimately responsible. Just say you messed up and you shot him. It's not that difficult.
Third, how about a bit more contrition? How about a statement plus a brief presser indicating how sorry you were for shooting the guy? Cheney still seems to be going with the tough guy mentality.
Fourth, how about getting a memo out to people like McClellan and Jeb Bush that jokes are inappropriate, especially AFTER the guy takes a turn for the worse with the heart attack?
Seriously, the PR folks with the Bush admin are bad bad bad bad at their jobs...
f/k/a mclamb6
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